Potential New Car - Compression Test Results

[dirty32]

I am looking at a '91 Talon TSI AWD that has high miles, 15x,xxx, but the body is nearly perfect. The brakes, suspension, electrical, turbo, clutch and transmission are all in good shape or new.

I ran a compression test and got the following:

142, 142, 137, 146

I know this is somewhat low overall but for a car with high miles to be that high and have them be close to each other I figure that it might be worth picking up.

My question is that are the first two cylinders (142, 142) when I pulled the plugs they were fouled heavily with oil on the base and electrode while the second two were not fouled but slightly white on electrode.

The previous owner stated that the car had previously burned oil but he replaced the PVC valve and the problem was fixed.

Any experiance with simliar situations to this car would help. His asking price is high so if you want to throw out your opinion of a reasonable price for the car then feel free.

Thanks for your help in advance!

 

[rb25det510]

alright well the 137 is a lil low but as for the other three cylinders ther not to bad. around 160 psi is perfect compresion since you have a 91 and it should be a 7.8:1 motor. when i did a compresion test on my gvr4 with 172k i had 150 psi across the board. still none the less your motor isnt to bad for 150k

 

[BUCK]

Running - "body is nearly perfect. The brakes, suspension, electrical, turbo, clutch and transmission are all in good shape or new" - It's worth a couple grand for sure~!

 

[dirty32]

I can get it for 1600. I forgot to mension that the headliner is slightly sagging at the front and the passenger side door has the trim loose at the bottom. Also the car is STOCK as can be aside from a K&N air filter.

I have a few days to decide but I think I am going to pick it up and then do all the basic things before the fun stuff (timing belt, tensioners, oil pump, water pump, fluids and everything in between).

 

[Splitpi]

those numbers look alright to me.

 

[linksys42]

Tell him you will bring 1200 cash in hand tomorrow. I bet he will bite. Or at least meat you half way 1400. Did you already haggle with him to get him down to 1600? On the compression numbers just out of curiosity did you hold the throttle all the way open when cranking the car over? Also are you sure that the residue you saw on the base of the plug was oil and not carbon rich? 164 is standard compression on a 1g. The limit is 121, and 14 psi is the maximum difference between cylinders (your at 9psi difference, I think your ok).

 

[klipschaudio]

If the car is good overall and worth the money, just buy it and don't haggle. People who over bargain lose all respect in my eyes.

 

[linksys42]

If the car is good overall and worth the money, just buy it and don't haggle. People who over bargain lose all respect in my eyes.

The car is only worth what you are willing to pay for it as the purchaser. If the owner feels it’s too low then he doesn’t have to sell it, it’s as simple as that. If I am selling a car and some one low balls me I don’t take it personal I just tell them the price is firm. If they don’t want it they don’t want it. It’s only a car.

 

[dirty32]

I had worked the price down to that low which I think is fair since this is one of the few unmolested cars I have seen in my search.

I have read a lot of things of people seafoaming their engines and resulting in a more consistant compression reading accross the board.

I have sold cars and when people lowball you it is mostly in the way that they approach it that makes a differance to me. For some reason I have had people insult everything about the car and talk about how big of a piece of work it is and then make an offer on it. If people have some sort of explination and are reasonable in their approach there is nothing wrong with offering a lower price it is all simply negotiation.

Hopefully I will be able to join the 4g63 world soon!

 

[dirty32]

I agreed on 1600 and went to pick the car up today. Upon starting it up a plume of smoke (burning oil) came out of the exhaust for a second and this disappeared. This did not happen, or at least I did not notice it when a friend and I give it an inspection a few days earlier. I am guessing that it is the valve guide seals?

If anyone has any input it would be an awesome help. I thought I finally found a car to get me started off in the 1g Talon world but I guess I was wrong.

If anyone has any idea what the cause of this would be or if this means a top end rebuild is in the very very near future please let me know. I can look at the car anytime since it is only about 30 mins drive away.

Thanks in advance for the help (if anyone has a DSM in the PNW that is 3k or under let me know I have been strinking out with craigslist and others lately).

 

[kittay]

Price Drop! 1990 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD
Project car: 1992 AWD Eagle Talon
Needs new taillights: eagle talon tsi awd
Mechanical problem: 1992 Eagle Talon TSI AWD Turbo, 136K, Clean Title, Leather

Sucky thing is with 1gs, is it's pretty hard to find an unmolested one w/ no body kit, or trashed, or even running decent.. . Esp if it has been sitting for a while.
But hope those help a bit.
Do you happen to have any pics of the one you're looking at?

 

[linksys42]

Mechanical problem: 1992 Eagle Talon TSI AWD Turbo, 136K, Clean Title, LeatherQUOTE]

This looks like one to go take a look at, as long as it’s a 5 speed. Looks clean, just go and look it over see what the problem is.

 

[dirty32]

Thanks for your guys help, I have seen all those cars and have called on most. The white one is an Auto unfortunatly. The teal one in Salem is a little too much of a project for me while I am at school because it is hard to get into a garage. One of my roomates is in a mechanic school near by though so I can do work on the weekends if it is not being used.

I am sure I can find it in a search but am having a little trouble right now. Does anyone know if the oil on startup would be from bad valve guides? Also could that result in burning oil slowly between oil changes?

I have been looking forever for one that is not in need of a rebuild in the near future but it is hard to find.

Any help on the oil cloud on start up would be awesome. Thanks again.

*I do not have any pictures of the car I have been looking at but it is a decent '90 Talon TSi AWD that is the goldish color body and black roof. Paint slightly faded on the roof and a few door dings here and there but not bad at all compaired to what I have seen.

 

[linksys42]

Most likely valve seals or guides, do this coast down a hill off the gas but in gear creating a lot of vacuum, then at the bottom of the hill give it gas then look behind ya . If you think it’s the rings do a leak down test and that will let ya know. Search valve seals and valve guides.

 

[dirty32]

Thanks for your help. After doing quite a bit of reading last night and research I am 100% sure it is the valve guide seals. Which brings me to my next question.

For a 90' TSi AWD with 150xxx miles but good compression and bad valve guide seals. Is it worth 1500 dollars to pick it up knowing I will have to spend another 500 to get it to stop burning oil?

 

[GofaST4life]

For a 90' TSi AWD with 150xxx miles but good compression and bad valve guide seals. Is it worth 1500 dollars to pick it up knowing I will have to spend another 500 to get it to stop burning oil?

reading on this site is the best for anyone owning a DSM

as for you question about money, id sya go for it, i would do it myself...yeah its got high miles (its 18 yrs old)...but compression is good and it seems that you have the problems firgured out...its up to you man, the car sounds very clean you dont find many like that these days...

 

[kittay]

I paid quite a bit more then that for my 91 with 140k and a crap tranny and oxidized and faded paint

 

[dirty32]

I picked up the car for 1300 tonight. I am sure once I dive into things it is going to be worse then I thought in the first place but at least finally I have a platform to start with.

I have read that putting a reworked head onto an old bottom end can speed up the life (or whats left) of the rings?

It is dark here now so I can't check out anything tonight but Thursday I will try and give it a once over and post up some pictures.

Thanks for everyones help.

 

[linksys42]

I picked up the car for 1300 tonight. I am sure once I dive into things it is going to be worse then I thought in the first place but at least finally I have a platform to start with.

I have read that putting a reworked head onto an old bottom end can speed up the life (or whats left) of the rings?

It is dark here now so I can't check out anything tonight but Thursday I will try and give it a once over and post up some pictures.

Thanks for everyones help.

Congrats! That's a great price! I would still go thru and do a leak down test. I wouldn't worry about a little smoke on start-ups as long as its not smoking like 007 taking off from stops (after idling) at lights. I had to freshen up the head on my first 1g because of valve seals. Because I was getting tired of smoke screens after awhile. But it took awhile before it got to that point. I would just go thru all the regular maintenance and be sure to do the timing belt on it. I would do it even if the previous owner said it had been done. Have fun with it and drive it like it was meant to be driven. I'm jealous! I want another 1g again.

 

[dirty32]

I have today off of class and was looking forward to doing a tuneup on the new car. After an oil change I went for a drive around to see how much smoke it was blowing from stops and such. After putting in mobile1 10W-30 and a puralator filter the car now burns oil non-stop, at idle, under boost and on deceleration. The seller must have had the car running on stop leak or something because I had never ran into this in the four times I tested/drove the car.

I am going to get a leakdown tester around noon today but the compression is still above 140 accross the board. I did notice that the valve cover gasket is now leaking quite a bit with the new oil in it.

Can valve guide seals cause this bad of a smoke show?

Also if there is anyone in the Portland/Vancouver area who has more experiance with these cars I could repay you with large amounts of beer for helping me do a timing belt and head gasket over this weekend. I have done a few timing belts but always with the engine out of the car and not on any DSM's. I am free from Friday until Tuesday.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[dirty32]

I replaced the plugs just now with some NGK BPR3SE and when i pulled the plugs the ones from the first two cylinders (two farthest from fender) were fouled completely while the other two were fine. I also ran another compression check while I had everything apart and this time got:

138 148 142 150

Which is considerably worse then the first time.

Furthermore the car has burned through the oil enough to where it is at the low line on the dip stick. Also as far as bad news goes when I opened the hood I noticed right away that the dip stick was lifted out of its normal position. My first assumption would be blow by.

It appears that I got a car that somehow checked out fine but is far worse off then I thought initially.

 

[ScottH]

As said above, those numbers seem alittle low. I bought a 90 talon awd two years ago with 173k original miles on the engine and it tested inbetween 155 and 157 across all four cylinders.

 

[linksys42]

I replaced the plugs just now with some NGK BPR3SE and when i pulled the plugs the ones from the first two cylinders (two farthest from fender) were fouled completely while the other two were fine. I also ran another compression check while I had everything apart and this time got:

138 148 142 150

Which is considerably worse then the first time.

Furthermore the car has burned through the oil enough to where it is at the low line on the dip stick. Also as far as bad news goes when I opened the hood I noticed right away that the dip stick was lifted out of its normal position. My first assumption would be blow by.

It appears that I got a car that somehow checked out fine but is far worse off then I thought initially.

121 is the service limit. 138 isnt that bad. The difference in compression between cylinders is what you really need to worry about. When you are doing the compression test is the car completely warmed up? And when you are turning the engine over do you have the throttle all the way open? What you need to do is have someone turn the engine over with the throttle open all the way and engine at operating temp, while you watch how the cylinders build compression. Watch how quickly they build compression with every stroke and compare. Also typically people running stock boost levels run ngk brp6es and 7es for a colder plug at higher boost pressures. I would go back and ask for 6es ngk plugs. On the oil burning put some dino oil not synthetic back in the car. And double check the PCV valve to make sure its working properly. When you are trouble shooting these cars start with the cheap things first. Did you do the leak down test yet? What were the results? If you have air coming from the intake it’s the one of the intake valves for that cylinder. If it comes out the exhaust it’s one of the exhaust valves for that cylinder. If you hear a lot of air coming from under the valve cover it’s the rings. Rule out everything before you start tearing the head off.

 

[dirty32]

When I do the compression test the car is fully warmed up and I have someone crank the engine over 5 times while holding the gas down to the floor until the reading stabilizes and do that twice for each cylinder to make sure that I am getting an accurate reading.

Unfortunatly I am about an hour away from where I live since I am at school so I am going to have my friend tow the car home tomorrow so this weekend I can work on it in a garage with proper tools.

I was not able to track down a leak down tester here but will be able to get one at home.

The plugs that I put in today were NGK BRP6SE which were what I had read were the prefered for these engines.

The previous owner replaced the PCV but I doubt he did it with an OEM part so I will go fix that once I am back home. Also it has harder to tell if the engine is burning oil while I am driving because it is all of 25 degrees out and the exhaust looks bad on every car. Thanks for your input, I will try and update everyone on here asap.

 

[kittay]

.. And don't forget to post up some pics