1G Factory LSD got stuck in snow, only 1 tire at each end spun

[BigDan]

Hey I have a 92 TSI AWD and it has the orange door viscus sticker as well as a viscus sticker on the rear diff.

Took it out in the crunchy snow and ice and wanted to see how it would handle in an emergency stop. Well I slid almost sideways and then got on it and ended up on the side of the road, stuck. Had my buddy get out and push and found that only 1 rear tire was spinning (driver) and 1 front tire spinning(passenger).

Took about 15 minutes of shoving the floor mats under the 2 tires and lots of 5K clutch dumps to get out.

Never once did the another tire's spin. Is there something wrong with it or is this common?

What can I do to get both rear tires spinning when I get stuck?

I don't know the cars history so I will be changing the diff fluid next week.

Thanks

 

[FFTec - jerry]

I don't know the cars history so I will be changing the diff fluid next week.

I think you should have changed the fluid before trying this, but I guess it's a start.

The viscous diff stickers don't mean much unless you are the original owner. The diff/diff housing may have been switched out by the previous owner. I have a feeling your expectations of the diff are a bit skewed. Check the link below for more info, maybe this will help explain what happened (assuming you have the diff).

Howstuffworks "Viscous Coupling"

Jerry

 

[neoviper]

Ok im a little confused myself. I was under the impression that our cars were full time all wheel drive. That page explains how the VCU affects the wheels from front to back. But why was there only one wheel in the front and one wheel in the back actually spinning?

 

[Defiant]

You got stuck because you have a dead VC. Probably from someone doing AWD burnouts.

The VCs are sealed. Changing the fluid won't do a thing for them, the fluid's only for the gear faces and bearings in the unit.

But 5K to get out of snow? Wow. No wonder it took you fifteen minutes.

Here's a thread that explains the DSM AWD scheme:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...ged-9-7-torque-split-division-slip-drive.html

 

[neoviper]

Forgive me ahead of time for being this dumb. I'm gonna blame it on exhaustion, but this still isnt making sense to me.

The second page explains the torque split from front to rear. But the OP says that only one front wheel is spinning and one rear. Shouldn't either both front wheels or both rear wheels be spinning at the same time?

Again i'm still trying to learn the technical aspects of our cars so please be patient with my Idiocy .

 

[terminaltsi]

In a low traction situation like the op experienced, the front wheels will pretty much never spin at the same time. The front diff is open, which means that the tire with the least traction will always spin.

The LSD in the rear can help, but if the components are worn out, it will act like an open diff as well. Aditionally, viscous LSD's don't put 100% of available torque to the tire with the most traction, some of it will go to the spinning tire.

 

[Eagle18g]

this SAME thing happened to me. my car was parked in my drive way and when i went to leave it fealt like the wheels were frozen. so i broke them free by just giveing it alot of gas. then i was driveing down the snow covered road and i finaly figured out i was draging a wheel. when i tore my rear end apart i found that my rear diff was fine. the problem was that a bearing came loose inside the CV joint. got a new bearing from a local axle repair shop for 30 bucks and i was on my way!

 

[BigDan]

Ok so you think my VC in the rear diff is shot?

What do you think is the best route for my currently stock TSI?

Find a used rear diff?
Find a used VC for the rear?
Buy a new VC for the rear?
Buy a better aftermarket LSD?

Is there a way to find out if the VC in the tranny is OK?

I just bought this car and it run's and drives great but I think the clutch is slipping when I'm hard on it. The 3 times I tried to launch it it doesnt pull as hard and accelerate as fast through the gears as it would if I didnt launch it. Its not a typical clutch slip. It just seems to accelerate slower but doesnt slip so bad where it just revs.

Does this sound like a fried clutch or something else?

I'm new here but I've been of other forums for 8 years and always search before I post.

I just want to get this car in perfect operation before I add power.

Thanks

 

[neoviper]

Bigdan I encountered the same thing when I first got my car. The stock Exedy clutches aren't that great and AWD is hard on clutches, so dumping it in first gear is gonna feel kinda crappy. A new clutch (and might as well do a flywheel while your at it) works miracles for acceleration.

And to ask another dumb question (I'm full of them) wouldn't the one wheel slipping continuously cause the LSD to close and transfer torque to wheel that's gripping, or since there isn't really any wheel that's gripping ( b/c of snow) will it just send all the torque to one wheel, and why?

 

[terminaltsi]

And to ask another dumb question (I'm full of them ) wouldn't the one wheel slipping continuously cause the LSD to close and transfer torque to wheel that's gripping, or since there isn't really any wheel that's gripping ( b/c of snow) will it just send all the torque to one wheel, and why?

Yes, it should transfer power to the other tire under ideal conditions.

Most LSD's on old cars just don't have enough strength left to do it though. LSDs wear out over time.
also, their torque bias isn't enough to do the job many times either. Having one tire on snow and other on pavement is the same as having one tire off the ground and one on the ground.

Any LSD other than the most aggressive aftermarket will just allow the one in the snow or off the ground to spin while the other just sits there.

What do you think is the best route for my currently stock TSI

Find a used rear diff?
Find a used VC for the rear?
Buy a new VC for the rear?
Buy a better aftermarket LSD?

Is there a way to find out if the VC in the tranny is OK?

I just want to get this car in perfect operation before I add power.

What is your goal for the car? Do you really need the rear LSD? How much money is it worth to you to have it working up to factory new spec or would you want it even tighter than factory?

It can be rebuilt. a used one more than likely will provide you with the same results. LSD"s wear out over time.

 

[zero97tsi]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...ged-9-7-torque-split-division-slip-drive.html

Wow, that turned into just about the most asinine conversation Iv'e ever read.

 

[BigDan]

Yeah I would say I need a LSD rear. I live at 4000' and work nights so the roads are rarely plowed.

I actually prefeer a more agressive unit that wont give me any problems. I like to keep things affordable but dont mind paying more for quality.

Goals are a strong running DD that runs in the 13's.

I dont want to get crazy, just upgrade things with modern technology, like better brakes, better restraints, alot better airflow in and out of the motor and then turn up the fuel a little bit but only after I have supporting mods.

But for now id be happy if it was as good as brand new, so that means maintance items like 2g brakes (mine are shot), aftermarket clutch (also shot), flush all fluids, good LSD(also shot), 2g exhaust manafold (1g is cracked), fix driver side auto seatbelt (doesnt work), fix fog light switch, replace rear hatch struts, remove crappy window tint.

After all that I want a set of gauges and logger, then 3" exhaust, 2g mas, boost control, walbro, FMIC and maybe injectors.

I'm not looking for a race car I just want to make the engine breathe better and take it to its bolt on potential.

 

[steve]

Wow, that turned into just about the most asinine conversation Iv'e ever read.

Even more so once you realize that there were links to the manual pages. I fixed them.

 

[Mikael SS]

Even more so once you realize that there were links to the manual pages. I fixed them.

reading that thread and the 1990 manual you posted leads me to believe that all the 1gs have a rear lsd. is this true or is it an option?

 

[steve]

reading that thread and the 1990 manual you posted leads me to believe that all the 1gs have a rear lsd. is this true or is it an option?

I don't know how you would have gotten that impression. The answer is no, the rear LSD was an option not standard. If you read some of the other threads you'll find that the LSD and ABS didn't work together until 92 so it was one or the other at first and then one, the other or both options starting in 92.

I don't believe but haven't proved either way that the rear LSD remained an option rather than standard on the 2Gs too.

 

[TunaTalon]

I don't believe but haven't proved either way that the rear LSD remained an option rather than standard on the 2Gs too.

My 1995 & 1996 Talon factory brochures show the LSD as standard.

My 1997 Talon factory brochure shows the LSD as optional.

The 1998 Talon factory was not clear but I paid $266 (invoice) for the LSD on my 1998 TSI.

 

[terminaltsi]

Yeah I would say I need a LSD rear. I live at 4000' and work nights so the roads are rarely plowed.

I actually prefeer a more agressive unit that wont give me any problems. I like to keep things affordable but dont mind paying more for quality.

Goals are a strong running DD that runs in the 13's.

I dont want to get crazy, just upgrade things with modern technology, like better brakes, better restraints, alot better airflow in and out of the motor and then turn up the fuel a little bit but only after I have supporting mods.

But for now id be happy if it was as good as brand new, so that means maintance items like 2g brakes (mine are shot), aftermarket clutch (also shot), flush all fluids, good LSD(also shot), 2g exhaust manafold (1g is cracked), fix driver side auto seatbelt (doesnt work), fix fog light switch, replace rear hatch struts, remove crappy window tint.

After all that I want a set of gauges and logger, then 3" exhaust, 2g mas, boost control, walbro, FMIC and maybe injectors.

I'm not looking for a race car I just want to make the engine breathe better and take it to its bolt on potential.

in that case, you could look into aftermarket lsd's... i dont' know what's available so you're on your own there.
or rebuild one in a spare rear end and then just swap it when you're done.

 

[matthewdesigns]

Even more so once you realize that there were links to the manual pages. I fixed them.

Links for the 2g manual are bad. One gives a "404" error, and the other goes to a businesses homepage.

If those links are gone for good, does anyone have a link to the 2g manuals? or a pdf to share?

Thanks

My 1995 & 1996 Talon factory brochures show the LSD as standard.

My '96 AWD does not have the doorjam sticker. The original window sales sticker does not show it listed, either.

It'd be really nice if I had one hiding back there, though.