Miller Tuning exhaust

[ToDdErDoDdEr]

what do you guys think about this?

eBay Motors: Miller Tuning 1G Eclipse Talon AWD Turbo-Back Exhaust (item 170176983884 end time Dec-13-07 17:43:55 PST)

does it seem like a nice turbo-back exhaust system?

i have Magnaflow cat-back on my '97 n/t Eclipse and it sounds really nice, so im thinking that this has got to sound better yet, right? haha

3" exhaust on a turbo motor not to mention the performance upgrade from completely stock..

 

[Car_guy_09]

If it was me for the money i would probably go with a bigger brand. But it does look like a good system.

 

[bowtiebuba350]

for 150 dollars more you can get the god of dsm exhaust and get a full stainless turbo back buschur exhaust

 

[Car_guy_09]

for 150 dollars more you can get the god of dsm exhaust and get a full stainless turbo back buschur exhaust

Yea thats what i was saying for the money i would go with something else...

 

[ToDdErDoDdEr]

what brand would be considered the "god"? =]

 

[boostcrazyawd]

The buschur racing turbo back, its very badass and sounds awsome. my buddy has it on his car and its wicked good

 

[JusMX141]

I paid $283 shipped for a Tsudo 3" Stainless catback for my 1G AWD over a year ago....that's half the price of this no-name builder. Fitment was great- no clamping. In western PA where it rains 342 days out of the year, stainless is a must.

 

[JusMX141]

3" exhaust on a turbo motor not to mention the performance upgrade from completely stock..

This is a very common assumption, yet it's completely false.

If you're running stock boost levels and your car is your daily driver, then about 98% of the time you're not on boost. You will lose off-boost torque and your car will actually feel slower during the majority of your driving session.

Unless you're planning some extensive upgrades very soon, I'd choose 2.5".

 

[mygsx2120]

This is a very common assumption, yet it's completely false

I disagree, his car will feel like it's completely different car almost with a free flowing exhaust. My dsm's are my DDs and I go into boost way more than 98% of the time. 3' is perfect for our cars, might as well plan ahead now. Plus since 1gs come with a 14b I don't even think it's over kill.

To the OP, that exhaust is too expensive for a no name brand. I would just buy a muffler, flex piece, some flanges and have an exhaust shop do the rest. You won't be able to tell the difference except in your wallet. If not go with what the guys above said and buy from Buschur. Proven quality plus they have done so much to help the evolution (no pun intended) of our cars.

 

[bowtiebuba350]

i have the tusdo exhaust for my 1g and its actully really nice like stated above. super cheap as well

 

[airFS]

I bought that exact same exhaust last year for about half the price, but from a different dealer. I actually went to his shop to pick it up and he was definately a legit manufacturer. He said he normally makes custom exhausts for people or other manufacturers come to him and he would make an exhaust that they would then sell under their own name and obviously for a more expensive price.

I dug up this older thread, but keep in mind everything I've been writing about is for a 2g altough I would say if the 1g is as nice as the 2g, which I would think it is, you will certainly have no regrets.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/246062-new-3-exhaust.html

ebay seller: tlmtube04

 

[elfroggo]

I have the same exhaust from tlmtube04

Price was great and the fit was pretty good. It's not the lightest though. It's all slip fit, which some people may not light.

He was a great seller to deal with: I called him to have a different muffler included and get a wb bung welded onto the downpipe.

 

[tkelly27]

This is a very common assumption, yet it's completely false.

If you're running stock boost levels and your car is your daily driver, then about 98% of the time you're not on boost. You will lose off-boost torque and your car will actually feel slower during the majority of your driving session.

Unless you're planning some extensive upgrades very soon, I'd choose 2.5".

WHAT?! No. There is no torque loss. Torque loss occurs in N/T applications when the exhaust is too big because you loose back pressure. The torque loss there only occurs due to tune and camshaft design. There is always enough (too much) back pressure in a turbo system.

You will get faster spool up (faster spool up is more torque and more power at all levels with a bigger post turbo exhaust up to a point. I.E. on a stock setup a 4" might not be better than a 3". After going from 2.25" to 2.5" to 3" I'd never run anything less than 3".

OP, I agree, seems like a nice kit, but it's a lot of $$ for something nobody has heard of. It does come with the down pipe and cat though, which is nice to have all at once.

 

[housegsx]

It looks nice and Magnaflow muffler is a plus. But for $600 stainless would be nice. You also need to make sure they use a decent flex section that doesn't neck down like a bunch of them do.

Also, if you get it don't use cheapo U-bolt clamps. Get the band style.

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[Cs4g63]

for 150 dollars more you can get the god of dsm exhaust and get a full stainless turbo back buschur exhaust

Yea thats what i was saying for the money i would go with something else...

Im not sure if I understand where you guys are talking about getting an exhaust from Buschur for only $150 more. From what I am seeing it would cost you $900 to get an equivalent exhaust from him.
https://secure.buschurracing.com/ca...rt=3a&osCsid=fd0b2337c1eef931786c416ac3f89f78

 

[JusMX141]

WHAT?! No. There is no torque loss. Torque loss occurs in N/T applications when the exhaust is too big because you loose back pressure. The torque loss there only occurs due to tune and camshaft design. There is always enough (too much) back pressure in a turbo system.

You will get faster spool up (faster spool up is more torque and more power at all levels with a bigger post turbo exhaust up to a point. I.E. on a stock setup a 4" might not be better than a 3". After going from 2.25" to 2.5" to 3" I'd never run anything less than 3".

OP, I agree, seems like a nice kit, but it's a lot of $$ for something nobody has heard of. It does come with the down pipe and cat though, which is nice to have all at once.

Then I must be the only one whose FWD TSi lost off-boost torque when I installed a 3" system a long time ago when the car was only at stock boost on the 14B turbo (major upgrades since, of course.)

If backpressure has nothing to do with off-boost torque, as you're implying, then drive your car around with an open downpipe and see how lazy it feels until the turbo starts to spool.

I never said that a huge exhaust wouldn't make the turbo spool quicker or change top-end pull....everyone knows when you're on boost the least amount of exhaust restriction is the best way to go. But who here is making 10psi or above the whole time you're driving?

 

[ToDdErDoDdEr]

the thing i thought was nice about it was the fact that it is a 3" exhaust alll the way from the turbo back.. no restrictions here and there, and nothing else to buy.. plus its using Magnaflow parts.. i paid $450 for my Cat-back alone from Magnaflow for my 97 n/t so it seemed like a fair price for about $200 more to include an o2 housing, downpipe AND a 3" high-flow Catalytic convertor.. the cat back was Stainless tho, and thats the only downside of this kit i think.. if it was stainless i would be ordering this bad boy today, but that kinda sucks.. plus, i dont really understand the clamping system.. it looks like the pipes are only held together by the clamps.. or am i missing the part with they slide into each other?

 

[elfroggo]

The pipes slide into one another; One end is slightly larger and slotted and the other pipe fits into it. Then you place the clamp over that to hold it tight.

Also, it doesn't include an o2 housing, you reuse the one you have so it's actually an "o2 back" system.

 

[tkelly27]

Then I must be the only one whose FWD TSi lost off-boost torque when I installed a 3" system a long time ago when the car was only at stock boost on the 14B turbo (major upgrades since, of course.)

If backpressure has nothing to do with off-boost torque, as you're implying, then drive your car around with an open downpipe and see how lazy it feels until the turbo starts to spool.

I've done it, part throttle blips would light up the tires. Nearly instant spool, and more power off spool.

AWE Tuning

Your position seems to be based on fact though. I've never experienced it personally, and, like I said before, after going from 2.25" to 2.5" to 3" (all on stock boost), would never recommend anything smaller than 3", even if they are stock. I would even go so far as to recommend a cut out.

Thank you for adding your experience that countered mine, it's good to have discussions, and I learned a bit today

 

[SpeedAddict62]

WHAT?! No. There is no torque loss. Torque loss occurs in N/T applications when the exhaust is too big because you loose back pressure. The torque loss there only occurs due to tune and camshaft design. There is always enough (too much) back pressure in a turbo system.

You will get faster spool up (faster spool up is more torque and more power at all levels with a bigger post turbo exhaust up to a point. I.E. on a stock setup a 4" might not be better than a 3". After going from 2.25" to 2.5" to 3" I'd never run anything less than 3".

OP, I agree, seems like a nice kit, but it's a lot of $$ for something nobody has heard of. It does come with the down pipe and cat though, which is nice to have all at once.

Wrong. Do some reading on exhaust system design and you'll find that this isn't the case. Backpressure is always the enemy and will only hurt power. Backpressure in a NA application is the result of a compromise, not because its good for power.

On a turbo application, there really is no reason to go small. I agree with you there, no reason to go less than a 3". I had mine custom built, a full 3" from the turbo back. I was amazed at how much better the car felt afterward.

 

[JusMX141]

I've done it, part throttle blips would light up the tires. Nearly instant spool, and more power off spool.

AWE Tuning

Your position seems to be based on fact though. I've never experienced it personally, and, like I said before, after going from 2.25" to 2.5" to 3" (all on stock boost), would never recommend anything smaller than 3", even if they are stock.

You do realize the link you've posted completely contradicts your beliefs, right?

 

[tkelly27]

Wrong. Do some reading on exhaust system design and you'll find that this isn't the case. Backpressure is always the enemy and will only hurt power. Backpressure in a NA application is the result of a compromise, not because its good for power.

On a turbo application, there really is no reason to go small. I agree with you there, no reason to go less than a 3". I had mine custom built, a full 3" from the turbo back. I was amazed at how much better the car felt afterward.

The sentence after that states that torque loss will ocur only due to camshaft design and tuning. If I remember right, it also occurs later on in the RPM band. Obviously the least back pressure you can have (N/A, SC, turbo, whatever), the better (look at any racing exhaust where there aren't restrictions on noise level), but not everyone is willing to run the cam and tune to compensate for it.

They aren't my beliefs, they are my experiences from actually doing it. Like I said, I appreciate your input, I didn't know you could be too big on turbo exhausts. I've never seen anyone else complain about a 3" exhaust though.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...8578-exhaust-straight-scoop-backpressure.html

Turbo Exhaust Theory

Thermal Research & Development 3-inch Exhaust - Tech Review - Turbo Magazine

etc. etc.

There's a lot of theory and experience that would back up what I've experienced as well as that which contradicts it.

 

[pboglio]

I've experienced some weird things playing with exhaust systems. But when I switched from my 2.5" exhaust to a 3" exhaust I didn't experience one bit of difference in low end torque, only a much harder hit of torque around 4000 rpm.

What is weird is that every time I slap my catalytic converter back on I could swear the car is a little bit more responsive with better low end torque, strange.

 

[tommy260]

Sometimes a little bit less airflow is a little bit better

 

[tommy260]

The exhaust however looks to be good for a vw, which is why they dynoed one one their page. I personally hate the clamps that come with the system. Look up the megan racing system. I am more than pleased with mine.