When does an engine management system become necessary?

[williamdsm]

What mods make it absolutely necessary to have an engine management system? What mods can you get away with without using one?

 

[oldman]

What mods make it absolutely necessary to have an engine management system?

When you upgrade your injectors.

 

[Artago]

When you upgrade your injectors.

Yup. SAFC or DSMlink are the best options depending on you much you wanna spend.

Tom.

 

[steve]

When you upgrade your injectors.

Or change your MAF.

 

[c4uldr0n]

What mods make it absolutely necessary to have an engine management system? What mods can you get away with without using one?

+1 for injectors + maf

Mods you can get away with without using one... pretty vague really! You can add any intake/exhaust component, as long as you know you are not running too lean or start to surpass your injector duty cycle.

examples:

turbo: 16G, but run lower (12-13 psi)
exhaust work: exhaust manifold, o2 housing, turbo-back/cat-back
intake: hard intake pipe, air filter, upper/lower intake charge piping, front mount intercooler
fuel: rewire fuel pump, replace fuel pump w/ walbro or larger (recommend fuel pressure reg.)
gauges: boost controller, egt, wideband

-Korri / c4uldr0n

 

[DGajre777]

Are we talking about piggyback engine management systems that use the factory ECU like SAFC/DSMLink or are we talking about the standalone engine management system like the AEM EMS/Haltech?

 

[inspector-111]

What about cams? (272/272)

sorry to jump in . . . . just making sure for my benefit

 

[steve]

What about cams? (272/272)

WTH would you put cams on an otherwise stock motor? That's something you usually do after you changed things that do require some sort of tuning/engine management.

If you were to dump some cams into stock engine it would work without any additional support. It would not be optimal but the stock ECU and MAF would be able to handle it.

 

[inspector-111]

WTH would you put cams on an otherwise stock motor? That's something you usually do after you changed things that do require some sort of tuning/engine management.

If you were to dump some cams into stock engine it would work without any additional support. It would not be optimal but the stock ECU and MAF would be able to handle it.

I'm in the v e r y s l o w process of building my engine. (finishing this fall) I am doing a very mild ($cheaper$) build without tuning . . . . . . for now. Just wanted to make sure.

1mm O/S valves
B/C valve springs
272/272 B/C cams
E316G
Tubular header
1pc O2 and down pipe
Polished rods
B/S removal
FMIC
14-15psi
190lph rewired

 

[steve]

You need injectors or you'll have to turn the boost down more. The 450s will be way maxed out and anything you do besides turning the boost down to get more fuel is going to require something to correct for the additional fuel.

 

[inspector-111]

You need injectors or you'll have to turn the boost down more. The 450s will be way maxed out and anything you do besides turning the boost down to get more fuel is going to require something to correct for the additional fuel.

Crap! I thought from what I've read that 15psi was about the limit - give or take 1psi-
How much boost can I run on that set-up without having to tune?

Upgraded injectors means tuning is a must also. Is there any way to cheat with just 550's? Or am I just pushing the issue? (sorry)

 

[steve]

To extract the potential of those parts 680cc injectors would be the least I would recommend and you'll be bumping up against the limits of the 190l/h pump. I can max out my EVO VIII 560s on a B16g if I run them at stock base fuel pressure.

If you run a EPROM ECU you can get a chip that will make the car run as if the upgrades are stock. The car could be tuned from that point but not required.

If you have any other questions you should make your own thread and not hijack this one.

 

[JohnnyT]

I would look into ds-map it is a cheaper free alternative, it will allow you to vent your bov, adjust for injectors and a lot more. http://www.ds-map.net/

 

[inspector-111]

To extract the potential of those parts 680cc injectors would be the least I would recommend and you'll be bumping up against the limits of the 190l/h pump. I can max out my EVO VIII 560s on a B16g if I run them at stock base fuel pressure.

If you run a EPROM ECU you can get a chip that will make the car run as if the upgrades are stock. The car could be tuned from that point but not required.

If you have any other questions you should make your own thread and not hijack this one.

My apologies, didn't mean to. Just got caught up it . . .

 

[RMeadows]

Or you could just get a chip from keydiver/dsmchips

 

[notsofastdsm55]

I say +1 for ds-map