Turbo Upgrade

[blackhawk1402]

I am looking to upgrade my turbo on my 99 GST and I have heard a lot about some turbos. I was told not to get an EVO III 16g because the spool up time is too fast for FWD and all I will do is spin tire. Then I heard that a 50 trim isn't good either because of all of the supporting mods that you have to do with it. What are my other options? I have about $2000 to spend and I was looking to get a turbo, injectors, fuel pump, turbo timer, and an AFC. Also, this is a daily driven car so I need it to get me where I need to get to. Some significant engine mods that I have are... an intake, GReddy Big FMIC with 24R core, GReddy hard piping.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Get an Evo3, you are going to have traction issues no matter what turbo you choose. The EVO is a good all around street turbo. The other option would be a non-ball bearing 50 PTE 50 trim (5031E) but will cost a little more. This would give you more topend power with slower spool and only cost marginally more. Me, I would go with the evo3.

 

[wt71gas]

I think an EVO 16G would also do very well for you. If you have a little more money to spend I like the borg warner extended tip turbos by bullseye power. They spool up fast and have a very big efficiency range.

 

[daren_p]

Overall the evoIII will work fine on a fwd (I ran one for 2 summers) but it does spool quick & the inital boost does have a good kick compared to the more leanear spool of larger turbo's such as the 50 trim, etc. To properly run an evoIII to its potential, it will require the same supporting mods as a 50 trim, so don't let that make your decision.

Traction in a fwd will never be perfect but if you have proper suspension, some nice tires, urthane motor mounts, an LSD etc. your traction will defently be manageable. I currently run a FP3052 which is abit larger then a 50 trim & ball bearing center section. While traction with the evoIII wasn't too bad for me as I have a proper setup fwd, I like the 3052 better. Boost comes on more linear, & isn't so off/on, like the evoIII. The evoIII is a nice little turbo, that packs a mean puch but personally I would say just go with a 50 trim. You pretty much always want something bigger after you've run what you bought for awhile, so go bigger at the start.

Some things to consider when making your decision, other then what has been mentioned are things such as what is the car manily used for? What are your HP goals? What kind of spool times are you looking for? What amount of boost do you want to run? etc, etc. Depending on how you answer these, my recommend turbo for you may be different.

 

[blackhawk1402]

So, if I go with the PTE 50 Trim non ball bearing what size injectors do I need? Also, what fuel pump would I need? I was told that if i get a 255lph that I need a fuel rail. If I go with the EVO III, then what size injectors would I need? And what size fuel pump?

 

[TSG59_Steve]

You don't plan on tuning this yourself do you?

With $2000 I would buy 780cc injectors, DSMlink, a Walboro 190, an EVO III16g, and a good tune.

 

[TiradoCC]

get a Evo3...excellent spool and cost is not too high. I would recommend looking around in the forums for a good used one, it would save you some money.

 

[TiradoCC]

you can either get a SAFC or dsmlink....SAFC is less expensive but with DSMLINK your options are endless. Cost is higher on the DSMLINK because you need an EPROM ECU (~$200) but it is well worth the price.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

You don't plan on tuning this yourself do you?

With $2000 I would buy 780cc injectors, DSMlink, a Walboro 190, an EVO III16g, and a good tune.

780s are pointless on a wally 190, in all reality. I say go 255/AFPR and live without regret.

 

[blackhawk1402]

Do I even need 780's with an EVO III and an AFC? Wouldn't 550's work just fine as well?

 

[kspharris]

The 550's will work for you just fine but limit you to how much power you can make safely. That is why the guys are saying to go with bigger injectors. Something else to think about is that if you have to buy injectors then buy injectors once that you can use now AND later down the line. The DSMlink will be able to correct for the larger injectors. I would get the 255lph and a afpr to go with your setup. What ever turbo that you pick good luck. I had a 16g on a fwd and my traction wasn't that bad. It is something that you learn to "work" around. Good luck, Keith.



edit*** on a side note if you do go with the AFC then get the 660cc injectors so that you will be able to go farther. That is the biggest that you can go with if you are using a AFC to tune, (I believe).

 

[daren_p]

What do you plan to use to compensate for the new injectors? If your using a piggy back system, such as the SAFC you are limited to 650/680 injectors as any larger & you will have issues tuning because of too much timing advance. DSMLink is really a great way to go. It may be abit more but is defently worth it as it will take you as far as you want to go, can run larger injectors, can get a better tune, easier to use, etc.

You can go 550's with a SAFC but depending on what kind of boost you plan on running you can max those out with even an evoIII.

The 190 pump will support about 400 whp. If your goals are more then this you will need a larger pump such as the 255HP but you need an aftermarket adjustable FPR (such as the aeromotive, the B&M isn't what you want), not an upgraded fuel rail.

Once again what are you goals for this setup? It would be much easier to help you out, if we know what your trying to achieve.

 

[blackhawk1402]

I'm not looking to push it for much more that 350hp if that. I just want a fast little street car. I'm not planning on breaking any record times at the track. After I put all of this on I might only take it to the track a few times. But like i said right now I am on budget of about $2000. I am trying to get all of this stuff done before NOPI comes to Pittsburgh at the end of the month and I want a better engine to back up some of my looks. So I was going to get an EVO III, 550's, a 190lph pump, and an AFC. The only disagreement that you guys might have is injector size. Should I go with 550's or 650's?

 

[daren_p]

Well it doesn't sound like you really want to push the evoIII & if your keeping the stock cams, you should be able to get by with the 550's. Normally I'd recommend to go larger on the injector but my thought is if your happy with that goal, 550's will give you a better timing curve. If you feel you may want abit more boost, cams, etc. down the road (which even though currently you think you'll never want more, alot of people do change their minds) then I'd go for 650's.

Personally when I bought the evoIII, I bought what I thought at the time was huge injectors, 750's (DSMLink). As they were more then enough for my goals at that time & would still be more then enough if I wanted more in the future. Well with my current turbo I'm now seeing 85% injector duty cycle on the 750's & aren't really even pushing it all that much (22psi). Most normally recommend to try & keeps the IDC's under 80%.

 

[blackhawk1402]

650's will work with an AFC correct?

 

[daren_p]

650's will work with an AFC correct?

Yes, 650's will work with a SAFC & are the general max recommended size for a piggyback system. With a piggyback system you are takeing the signal from the MAF & modifying it before it goes to the ecu. The way it compensates for larger injectors is to send a smaller signal to the ecu (when you remove fuel with the SAFC), so by doing this the ecu thinks there is less airflow & reduces the injector pulse. Where the problem comes in, is that when the ecu see's less airflow, it also gives you more timing. The larger the injector, the more fuel you have to remove, the more timing advance you see. Once you start going larger then 650, you have to modify the signal so much that you get timing advance that is way too high for pump gas & will run into tuning issues & knock. Another issue with larger injectors is that they also have longer deadtime, which is the amount of time it takes for them to open, once they've been told to do so, which can't be compensated for the same way DSMLink does, so you run into driveability issues, but thats another topic...