T61 T4

[Rashwerd]

I have a 91 talon tsi awd and have a t61 turbo that i will be installing i have a hks turbo timer already installed, 3" exhaust front to back also autometer boost and air fuel gauges not yet installed.. what i am curious about is will the stock injectors be enough? or will i need bigger if so how big? and if i get bigger do i need to get a bigger or better fuel rail and FPR ,if i have to go that route will i need a safc or some sort of fuel tuning device?? as well as a 255 fuel pump? also I intend to vent my unpurchased BOV to the atmosphere what will i need to do this... i know that these cars dont particularly like to be vented in to the atmosphere so i dont want my idleing etc messed up b.c of that.. also what will i need to do with my O2 sensor since the new manifold will not have a bung to put it in? should i do away with it? I have a 3" gm maf should i go this way or would a 1g to 2g be better or maybe something else??also i will not be putting the ac condensor back on the car so im going to remove all lines..what belt should i use since ill be removing the ac condensor as well..and is there anything else i should know while removing the condensor? thanks,, i know this is a lot of questions and appreciate any and all help offered..thanks in advance

 

[talon20g]

Get ready to spend about 1500 to 2000 for supporting mods. Keep the GM MAF. Do you have the translator for it? Yes bigger injectors(around 850cc) and a good fpr, such as an aeromotive a1000. Hopefully you have an epprom ecu, if not your gonna have to buy one for good tunability. The epprom ecu is the best starting place for tuning. Your next move will be either dsmlink ($550-600) or dsmchips.com stage 1,2 or 3 chip for $140. Personally I'd go for dsmlink if you can afford it but jeff at dsmchips does awesome work. Now get a act 2600 and do regular upkeep like all new timing components.
Honestly you'd be better off staying stock. I keep thinking of so many reasons not to build your car up more. My advice is to sell the turbo and study up while buying supporting mods. Tunability is number one ALWAYS!!!! I'm in no way trying to be an ass because I was in your seat at one point. Slow down. Your will spend lots of time and money in unneeded areas trying to make the car fast and just get yourself in the hole deeper. I've had my dsm for 4 years and it's a money pit. Like I said sit back relax and study up some more.

 

[Booztit]

x2 what talon 20g said
T61 is big man....very big...it s not really good for the street unless you have at least another 2000$ to dish out to be able to use it to it s potential
To give you an example, if you would put it now on your car, it would probably start pushin above 5000 rpm on every gear...
My advice 2 is sell it and get a 20g or evo3 and use the regular path

 

[vc_wannabe]

No offense.
If you need to ask simple questions such as these. The amount of supporting mods you will need, tuning, and amount of power you would make isn't a very good way to start out modding cars.

 

[Rashwerd]

Yeah ive been studying on the t61 and it is big and have been considering going with a 20g
so i guess ill go that route since it seems to sound and be a better choice...thanks for the help...what are the supporting mods for the 20g ill need to have..thanks I see a few of the 16g's on e bay but am not sure if these are the good ones or the cheap sh*T and i dont want the cheap one any suggestions on where to purchase one or if you see a good one on there let me know thanks

 

[tkelly27]

I think a lot of people are going to tell you that you should do supporting mods first, and change the turbo later. You will be very surprised at what a 14b can do....

If your profile is correct, to go from 0 mods to a 20g even could create a boatload of problems. I am under the impression that first mods (unless stupid easy) should be done one at a time. If you do 8 mods and do 1 improperly you'll be looking at 8 different things to fix. If it were me, I'd go 3" exhaust, then when you run into boost creep, port the turbine and O2 housing. Then a big FMIC. Maybe injectors, fuel pump and a tune, as that is always a good idea, then swap over to the 20g. If you are doing a tune you might even think about doing a 2G MAF or a MAFT, or something like that. I'd also think about the 16g over the 20g if it's going to be a street car. 16g's can make gobs of power, are easy to find, and can get stuck right in. I think the 20g has a T3 style flange, at least all the ones I've seen on ebay have them...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hahn...019QQitemZ290108406086QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

 

[Rashwerd]

Right i see what you are saying ...3 inch exhaust I already have just not installed it yet its a apexi N1 also what supporting mods do you suggest i do now...i have a turbo timer installed a/f gauges and boost gauges..what else would be suggested?? and it will be a street car also so im thinking that the 16g one thats ported and clipped would be the better route for me..

 

[talon20g]

Just study up some more and take it slow on the mods. I did the same thing you did and got a 20g which IMO was a bad idea b/c I lacked the knowledge for tuning and even moding.

 

[tkelly27]

The 14b is easily capeable of putting your car deep into the 13's.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/sub.php?page=1gtupgrades

follow those guidelines (DONT HACK THE MAF!), read through all of them first, some you may want to skip (like straight to FMIC rather than dealing with the SMIC) , consider weather the T4 is in your future when looking at header options (hint: it's not in your near future, trust me!). You've got some decent baseline modifications already, but those really haven't changed your power output.

14b B16g T61, GT45, all of them will require a way to tune your car to get the most out of them, look into those options. I think you'll be blown away with your cars performance with the 14b, 3" exhaust, FMIC, and a tune to get rid of fuel cut. All of those things will help a bigger turbo work better as well.

Goal for now (this weekend!) put on your 3" exhaust. You won't believe it's your car. Second goal, read about tuning options and figure out if you can do it, or if you're going to need someone else to do it. That would be my approach at least.

 

[Rashwerd]

Alright will do...putting mine on e bay now...and looking for a 16g thanks for the help will update with the progress...thanks a lot for the help and advice...as far as the tune to get rid of fuel cut im lost ...ill do some searching on that topic,

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

this is what this board is all about! I love it. No one came out calling the poster and idiot or just telling him to do a search.

You got great advice here Rashwerd. Take it and run with it. You will love your car with a 16G. Keep us posted on your progress.

best of luck.

 

[Rashwerd]

Yeah I noticed that.. ive had a few other cars and asked questions before on other sites and just got belittled on there..I know my way around the bases but not hitting a home run just yet....thanks again ive read and searched on the fuel cut... and hell im half and half im read that someone could make one for 5 dollars..unsure but hey im all for it.. right now im wondering if it would be beneficial to put a pusher fan on the front of my oil cooler? im thinkin it would help i found a few that are for 4 wheelers but hey only fan that would be the right size and stand up to the weather..so thanks in advance...

P.S i have 2 PRO COMP GAUGES air/fuel and boost gague...the air and fuel have 3 wires a red (assuming 12v power) a black another guess (ground) and purple?? lost on that one.. any idea where to hook it to ..
also the boost gauge has black and white im guessing its power is just for the light...and the little vaccume line with a "T" fitting on the end what 2 lines should hook into this.. thanks again

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

The purple on the air fuel is for your 02 signal, the T goes between the fuel pressure soleniod vac line. Good luck

 

[Rashwerd]

The purple on the air fuel is for your 02 signal, the T goes between the fuel pressure soleniod vac line. Good luck

isnt this the line with the blue marks on it...thanks and where does the O2 signal hook in at and to what?

 

[tkelly27]

Alright will do...putting mine on e bay now...

GAH! Keep it for something cool later on! You never ever know when you'll need a huge turbo. Unless you need the extra $$, then go for it.

http://www.ecanfix.com/users/mdhamilton/ecuwiring.html

You can grab the O2 sensor feed from the computer, or you can hunt down the wire @ the sensor.

Red from O2 goes to key on, black goes to it's own ground.

White from boost gauge goes to the dimmer switch (assuming you want it to dim with your gauge lights) and black goes to any ground you want.

At the drivers side end of the fuel rail you'll find the FPR, go from there.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17
lots of tuning info there. From what I understand you can either get someone else to do it, an AFC (stupid idea if you ask me), a chip, DSMLink, Megasquirt, stand alone, make your own chip, or enter the dark art of map/ecu confusion. All but stand alone and MS (which is stand alone I guess) modify the stock ECU to get it to do what you want to varying degrees of adjustability.

Link
http://www.dsmlink.com/
Chips
http://www.dsmchips.com/
AFC
http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_electronics_detail.asp?id=260&pageNum=1
DIY
http://users.wpi.edu/~ktarry/dsmtech/dsmromedit.html
(if you follow the link to the yahoo group that's real interesting)
MS
http://www.megasquirt.info/

There may be others, and depending on your budget and HP goals it may be a good idea to go to one or the other. If you search for any one of those you'll find loads of info on here.

If you've got the $$ and time, DSMLink is apperently totally sweet. Personally I'm going to be making my own chips, simply because I (think I) know how, and it's not going to cost me a whole lot.

<--- poor SOB.

Good god, I've got to get into the garage and off these forums

 

[Rashwerd]

hooked up all the gauges but am still off a little on the boost as far as hook up near the fpr...it goes before the fpr correct? and the air fuel is stuck on rich? is this right or did i hook into the wrong wire? i hooked into the white wire in the pass side floorboard..was the only single spade connector i seen...thanks i cant run the car for long as the radiator is out and a few vacc lines not hooked up...

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

Dont run the car at all with out coolant, it will murder the seals in the turbo and yes before the FPR for the boost source. YOu have to run the car for the airfuel gauge to cycle...is it doesnt start cycling after 20 seconds then you used the wrong wire. Goodluck and maybe RE-check the connection you used or search on the forums for the answer...its out there...somewhere haha goodluck

 

[Rashwerd]

ok so now im getting knee deep into stuff now...ive got the tb elbow off..going to put a 2g on or dejon...was curious if the big bulky metal bracket was necesarry... ordered a block off plate should be here shortly .... curious if it would be a good idea to get a 1g to 2g maf converter thanks. also i did the unplug the clutch switch and mine still will not start unless i push the clutch in..ill double check to be sure but im positive i un plugged the right one...may just have been a dumba** moment.. another question is the "T" that i have for the boost gague is too big to fit inside the lines i believe that the lines are 1/8 and unsure what mine is.. just wondering if it would make a difference if i went to a smaller ''T"

 

[tkelly27]

no diff on smaller T. Don't worry about your maf conversion until you can get it running and driving. Doesn't that metal bracket adjust the ignition timing? I'd keep it on, it's there for a reason. Starting it without coolant is kinda a bad idea. I don't think you'll really hurt anything, but you never ever know.

 

[Rashwerd]

ok ill keep that in mind...going to put the 3" exaust on now...ive got all the free mods done so just have to finish putting her back together and im set ...really want to put a fmic on before i put the bumper etc on