putting in new motor.... difference between 1g NA and 1g turbo 6bolt?

[DJYoshaBYD]

ok... as you may or may not know, my motor blew in my 91 talon tsi AWD.... Im just going to get another motor and put it in.... I dont want to spend 1100 bucks for a turbo 4g63 6bolt with the turbo and all that, so Im just getting the NA 4g63 6bolt to replace it, and I will put my turbo and oil pan on that... The compression ratio in the NA is 9:1... which is what I was going to run anyway.....

My question is, what are the differences between NA and Turbo 6bolts besides the compression ratio and intake manifold? Im getting this NA motor with 40,000 miles and a 6 month warranty... I figure all I should have to do is swap everything I already own on to the outside of the motor and bolt it in....

 

[boostin92awd]

The turbo 4g63 motor has oil squirters which the n/a doesnt,and the turbo 4g also has more aggresive cams.

 

[spinninfwdlaser]

Lots of 4g63 enthusiast use a nt block as a foundation for a performance build, because as mentioned lack of oil squirters to cause further problems later. NT also uses higher compression. Swapping the turbo internals into a nt block is a great foundation for a solid build

 

[snox135]

Adding a turbo to the N/A motor will void your warranty. The internals are not made to hold the boost.

 

[marcmsj]

There are still dsm's with warranties?!?

 

[snox135]

He said he was getting a warranty with the motor.

 

[oldman]

Good idea, as long as you don't hook up the actuator arm to the flapper.

 

[Matrixhunter]

send that motor back as fast as you can wow i can just imagine you drop it in thinking it is the same attach your turbo set the boost to what you had it at before hit the gas and boom!!!!! goodbye to your n/a which will have a voided warranty because you put a turbo on it.

 

[pooker]

I think he said he was just thinking about getting it, I can tell you this I reccomend an n/a block do anyone doing a serious build. The oil squirters in my last build caused me to have low oil pressure, and with this motor I have now it is at a safe enough level and not in that worry zone that I felt with my last engine.

 

[DROOPY209]

I wouldn't boost that engine. If you drop it in, build up your busted 4g63 with some good stuff if you can. Other wise, strip down the 4g63 n/a and build that motor up with all of the goodies that you'd like.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

there is no difference in the motors except for this:

oil squirter's
oil pan
water pipe (behind exhaust manifold)
Oil filter assembly
Thermostat housing
Exhaust cam
Intake manifold
Throttle body (of course)
higher compression pistons


The rest of the internals (like rods, crank, etc.) are the same spec... I swapped everything listed, including the turbo over... and I run 10 psi and the car has no knock and runs great.. I even accidentally boosted to 15 psi a couple of times when I was messing around with my MBC, and nothing happened (even though I didnt wait for something to happen before I turned the boost down)... If I was going to float a rod out the motor, it would have happened at 15 psi...

a 6 bolt is a 6bolt... just slightly different when it comes to NA and turbo models (4G63 and 4G63T)

 

[Quasimondo]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37019

On the other hand though it limits you severely in the type of power you can make. The piston ring lands on the nt pistons (now we're mainly talking the nt 4g63 here) are in a terrible position. While more than sufficient in strength for a nt motor only pushing out 135hp out of its 2 liters, once boost is added problems suddenly arise. The ring lands are so high up on the piston skirts that a shockwave from pre-ignition (knock) can easily crack the land causing the ring to separate, lose compression, and god forbid internal engine damage.

N/T pistons don't tolerate much knock. Don't sell yourself short by getting this motor, you'll only have the car back on jackstands sooner than you'll expect.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

from what I just read on there, as long as I dont have knock, then I shouldnt have a problem... I have another motor I can rebuild with lower compression, thats not a problem... but so far the only thing I have heard that is bad about what I did is knock... And I have none, so there shouldnt be a problem with my setup as long as the no-knock law is maintained, correct?

ooo yeah.. the motor was 500 as opposed to 1100 for the turbo model, thats why I got it after I found out there was only subtle differences... Im quite anal when it comes to the life of my car, and I dont do anything without knowing consequences and I dont run anything with out running my buddies snap-on scanner... it was the thing that told me I had no knock and my o2 voltage is at ~.92v.... which shouldnt be that bad... a little rich if anything

 

[mavisky]

Don't forget that with higher horsepower you'll also increase cylinder pressures which will inturn put more stress on those ring lands and can cause cracking even without knock.

 

[bastarddsm]

Good idea, as long as you don't hook up the actuator arm to the flapper.

guys, guys...n/t motor being turbo is fine. many people have done it including me. granted it may not live long when trying to make 400hp, but in that territory you shuld be upgrading internals for longitivity anyway.

guys remember the rules...

#3. Don't try to help if you don't know the answer - bad advice can be worse than no advice (no "I think" or "I guess" or "I've heard").

Unless you have actual experience with a n/t motor being turboed, then you statements that it won't work fall into that category.. just somthing to keep in mind.

before you guys get all hyped up on ringlands and such..keep in mind, if you have excessive knock and are lean, you will desrtoy your motor, be it turbo, non turbo, or wiseco pistons.

 

[luvmygst]

guys, guys...n/t motor being turbo is fine. many people have done it including me. granted it may not live long when trying to make 400hp, but in that territory you shuld be upgrading internals for longitivity anyway.

guys remember the rules...

#3. Don't try to help if you don't know the answer - bad advice can be worse than no advice (no "I think" or "I guess" or "I've heard").

Unless you have actual experience with a n/t motor being turboed, then you statements that it won't work fall into that category.. just somthing to keep in mind.

before you guys get all hyped up on ringlands and such..keep in mind, if you have excessive knock and are lean, you will desrtoy your motor, be it turbo, non turbo, or wiseco pistons.

I agree with all of that but one thing you overlooked is the position of the ring lands. Most N/A pistons have the lands closer to the top of the piston, with most forced induction the lands are lower on the piston.

 

[burnnxs]

Lots of 4g63 enthusiast use a nt block as a foundation for a performance build, because as mentioned lack of oil squirters to cause further problems later. NT also uses higher compression. Swapping the turbo internals into a nt block is a great foundation for a solid build

using a nt/block foundation for performance build? lots of enthusiast use this?
what are you smoking ???!!! im confused

 

[mavisky]

The nt block itself is identical to the turbo block minus the oil squirters.

I've got an nt block with turbo internals in my car right now.

 

[burnnxs]

The nt block itself is identical to the turbo block minus the oil squirters.

I've got an nt block with turbo internals in my car right now.

i know that. but how hard is it to find a used t/ block ? dont know about everybody else but if your putting a couple of thousand $ in building . i stick with what the factory did

 

[Systemid]

if your just planning on gettin the car back up to spec (200hpish) then you'll be fine. its not like they build it to only handle stock load... and i actually like the extra compression. and i'd rather get a new n/a block than a used t/ block. if u still have many of the old parts on ## blown engine, an n/a block will be perfect.

 

[mavisky]

i know that. but how hard is it to find a used t/ block ? dont know about everybody else but if your putting a couple of thousand $ in building . i stick with what the factory did

The blocks are identical other than the oil squirters. Hell even the cranks and rods are identical on a 6 bolt. For a road racing motor, they should probably be in there, but a drag car wouldn't need them nearly as much. My next motor will probably be based off of a turbo motor so I don't have to bother with having the block machined for the squirters. But I'll still hang onto the nt block for a backup.