650's

[TC Mueller]

650's to big for a big 16g and an SAFCII?
either going that route or a big 16 and evo8 560's

what would you guys reccomend

 

[Quasimondo]

650cc injectors are the limit when it comes to using large injectors and any piggyback on a stock ecu. Any larger and you'll have to lean it out so much that it affects your timing.

 

[JayRolla]

If your going with just a SAFC I would go with 550's. It will be way easier to tune than 650's. You will have lots of timing, which you dont want. Or have your ECU burned for the injectors if you have an eprom.

 

[brandonzero0]

550's are prime for a 16g.

 

[sureshot971]

well what would you guys sugest for a 50 trim t3/t4 and a safc?

 

[CanadianTSi]

well what would you guys sugest for a 50 trim t3/t4 and a safc?

650's.

 

[sureshot971]

i guess i just dont get why 650 would be the biggest you should go, i mean if you take the car to get dynoed and tuned and you run a logger and a safc you should be safe to run practically whatever you want?

 

[GVR4592]

When you use the SAFC to compensate for bigger injectors, you are modifying the airflow signal to the ECU. The ecu sees lower airflow, and applies the ignition timing value from the corresponding cell in the map. Lower airflow cells will almost always have higher ignition timing than higher airflow cells. If you compensate for too large of an injector you get too much timing advance and detonation will occur.

 

[phyzy]

650s are good is you plan on upgrading in the near future. It will require a good amont of tuning though. Correct me if I'm wrong but you have to make it -69% with an safc II if you are running a stock mas.

 

[sureshot971]

weird, all this tuning and fuel mapping boggles my mind!

 

[sureshot971]

so what is the max HP someone would suggest a 650 injector up to?

 

[CanadianTSi]

Mine are at 100% duty cycle at 400awhp...

 

[4g63t]

Sory to hijack, I just want to ask a quick question I am puting my engine back together with a little higher compression ported head, and ffwd dks 272 cams I am runing a MHi 20G will my 650s be ok for 25-30 psi or will I need to upgrade?? I do have eprom maft and SAFC.

 

[JayRolla]

Sory to hijack, I just want to ask a quick question I am puting my engine back together with a little higher compression ported head, and ffwd dks 272 cams I am runing a MHi 20G will my 650s be ok for 25-30 psi or will I need to upgrade?? I do have eprom maft and SAFC.

I would go with 750's or bigger and have the eprom burned to the injectors. This way if you go larger you can grow. Plus you can get close to using up the 650's with that turbo and cams.

 

[chuckg]

I have 550s, a b16g, 20~psi, 255, and duty cycle is at like 100%+...does that sound normal?

 

[JayRolla]

Nope it doesnt to me. My brother is running about 19psi on his 550's and seeing a little over 70%.

 

[polishshark]

Nope it doesnt to me. My brother is running about 19psi on his 550's and seeing a little over 70%.

what turbo is he on? 14b?

 

[polishshark]

I have 550s, a b16g, 20~psi, 255, and duty cycle is at like 100%+...does that sound normal?

do you have a wideband? you're probably running way rich.

 

[JayRolla]

what turbo is he on? 14b

Evo3 16g tuned at 17psi. Made 300whp/300lb torque. He runs between 17-19psi and his cycle dutys are under 80% but close to it.

 

[Blueiii]

What other supporting mods?

 

[Karma]

Couldn't you just go get a EPROM and chipped for 650's problem solved? Tune your SAFC from 0 across the board

 

[2gAWDTalon]

Mine are at 100% duty cycle at 400awhp...

Ouch! What kind of lbs/min of airflow are you seeing at 400awhp, also what kind of peak timing advance?
FYI I have a PTE SCM5031e and at about 23.5lbs of boost I see 49-51lbs/min of airflow. I am able to get a peak of 23 degrees advance when it is cold (60degrees F.)with 0.7-1.1 max knock on pump 93. Mods in profile. I am pretty sure you run a fiddy also, that is why I am comparing...

well what would you guys sugest for a 50 trim t3/t4 and a safc?

I have 950's and DSMLink, at 51lbs of airflow (pretty much the most you will get out of a 50 trim) I get a 71-72% IDC. 950cc X 72% = 684cc and that is on a 10.5-10.8 AFR tune. So 650's will get you by with a 50 but you are going to max them out when you max out your 50. Canadian, I would think you are maxing your out?
Since I think E316G's flow around 42lbs/min. max, I would say 650's would be perfect for the 16G turbos if you never wanted anything more.

 

[CanadianTSi]

About 46lbs/min with maybe 16-17 degree's of timing.

I don't see how you could be flowing that amount of air at that boost level, unless you have a MAF-T that is screwing with your airflow...

 

[JayRolla]

What other supporting mods?

He has them all, FMIC, 550, 255lph, AFPR, 2gmaf, ect..... Completly stock motor and head.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

About 46lbs/min with maybe 16-17 degree's of timing.

I don't see how you could be flowing that amount of air at that boost level, unless you have a MAF-T that is screwing with your airflow...

It is 100% stock 2G MAS on a 2G car logged through DSMLink. The only things I can think of that would make it flow well are...
1. Weisco 9.1:1 Pistons in a 6 bolt with a 6 bolt head
2. Magnus SMIM
3. Cams
4. I am in Orlando Florida and we are like 15-25 ft above sea level so I think that means the air is denser.

I was just reviewing some logs and the night I was getting 49-51 lbs/min it was more like 50 degrees F. outside. On a normal 70-80 degree day at 23psi I see more like 45-46 lbs of airflow.

I would like to say that 46lbs of airflow and 17 degrees of timing making 400awhp is awsome, good job on that!

I got to get my car to the dyno and see what this biotch is puttin out at 49lbs of airflow and 23degrees of timing! I just need to lean it out to about 11.0 AFR's and we should! I would like to get some race gas or water injection and see when this this thing stops flowing, I thought it would take more then 23psi to get this airflow so I wonder where it will start to taper off.