spun bearing - pictures

[Mentow]

what would made this happen? Its a fully stock 94 eclipse turbo, but higher turbo pressure (about 20psi at that time only heheheh)

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it just happend 500miles after a head rebuilding, during a fuel pump test, driving it 3 times at 7500rpms. 5 minutes later i got a ticking sound that seemed like lifters (a brand new full set of johnsons). My car had not any, i mean *any* ticking sound before that test. Yes i was stuppid to drive it for more about 50miles when the noise got so high i was hoping to not lose my engine. God dam***! in so stupid...

Bad oil? Too much turbo pressure (4g63 can handle about 450hps stock, doesnt it?)? crankshaft bearings with too much wear (out of spec)? BAD LUCK? heheh. Will i lose the crankshaft?



Regards,

Michel

 

[Skunked tsi]

Well, unfortunately that sort of stuff just happens occasionally, more often with 7bolts which you have unless it was swapped. They just happen and most of the time people refer to it as crankwalk, which in fact it isnt, but I would say most 7 bolts that die are from spun rod bearings. Most likely your crank is dead as well, only thing you could hope for is that it is minor and you can get it polished out.
Tyler

 

[TooFastTooG]

May I ask why you were running 20psi on a stock engine?

Dont even think about going past 15psi on the stock fuel system, and you shouldnt even be at 15psi until you have the proper supporting modifactions.

 

[blackbyrd]

Hey well at least your bearings looked to be intact.
This is about all I could pick up of my '93
You'll have to take your crank to a machine shop and probably have it machined back to spec if you want to rebuild that engine.
I just swapped to a nice new 6bolt.

 

[awdtalontsi1992]

That sucks. About the only thing you can do is take the crank and rod to a machine shop. They will measure the crank and they may be able to polish it back or cut it down .010". I'm sure someone will chime in and say they aren't serviceable but we have done it multiple times with no problems are our shop. The rod can probably be reconditioned and resused. Sometimes this kind of stuff happens. I would imagine the 7500rpm wasn't too good for it. You could do 7500 all day long and never have it happen again. Just put her back together carefully and pray it doesn't happen again.

 

[hereitcomes]

Ya running it at 7500 was probably why you spun a bearing, and Im suprised it came out that good.
I was at about 6k for a few seconds and over-reved and missed 4th, and about 10 min. later my car died becuase the rod knock grew and I spun #1 bearing. Lack of oil pressure can accumulate to a bearing's demise, along with too much power. You can reuse the crank, I would suggest taking it to a machine shop like other members have said. Try not to beat on it as much.

 

[the_skin_eater]

so did you just have a lound tapping at like idle and such?

I think mine is spun too, but dont wanna tear it apart just to look.
What kind of damage will this do to drive on it for a short while?

 

[Mentow]

May I ask why you were running 20psi on a stock engine?

Dont even think about going past 15psi on the stock fuel system, and you shouldnt even be at 15psi until you have the proper supporting modifactions.

well i've done a few times before even with 22psi, and believe me, the car just run strong like a beast until 5500 rpms when it started loosing power, that is, the fuel system wont just be enought for that. But with that new pump and about 20psi, the car was just nice until 7500, not a loss of power any time, strong as it should!

So if my fuel system would be enought for that, why would i need some extra care? I mean, i drove it to those highrev only for a few time, and what actually made that mess with my crank and bearings has not surelly something to do with the fuel system. I thought i heard that this engine could handle to 450hps stock (not stock fuel and sparking system, off course), i got a little surprised with that!

What exaclty would you suggest as "supporting modifications" to handle 20psi for only a few short rides?

Regards!

Michel

 

[Mentow]

and thanks you all guys for posting. I'll be looking for a machine shopp as soon as possible, i'll keep informed about my crank.

blackbyrd: have you lost you engine? geez that was quite impressive! never seen something like that!

the_skin_eater: the noise started suddenly, at all the rpms range. Some time before, only at idle, and some time before depending on how much i was pushing it. After that, i seemed that a hammer was inside the engine hehehe. You should really drive it to someone who can tell you if it is only a lifter sound, other way i would sugest you not driving it anymore, i may lost my crank by doing that!

Regards,

Michel

 

[blackbyrd]

blackbyrd: have you lost you engine? geez that was quite impressive! never seen something like that!

No I didn't loose it, I know right where it's at
I actually ran that engine for nearly 30k miles since my rod knock started. One day it got about 10x worse all the sudden so I stopped it.. It still ran the day I pulled it into the garage to drop the engine though! My rod was flying all over the place and ripped off my oil cooler jet as you can see in the pic, but still running, good compression. hahah
Tough little bugger

Good Luck!

 

[Spoolin4Ever]

Don't waste time or money with a machine shop. We never recomend using a rebuilt crank. If they grind the crank, it will weaken it. The 6 bolt and 7 bolt cranks have a hardening on them and if grinded on it weakens them. Supposedly the 7 bolt crank has less hardener on it also (both 1G 7 bolt and 2g 7 bolt).

6 bolt time. Period. Unless you want to (take the chance of) have to do it all over again.

If the advice here can ever put money in your pocket, this advice would be the words to do it.

<<<<<6 bolt. That's what's in this car and the pic above is what happened to the original engine. I rev/boost the hell out of this thing and it loves it.

You hear of alot more 7 bolts breaking then 6 bolts, especially as far as rods, bearings, bottom-end stuff.

Interesting the number of 1G 7bolt owners chiming in here, isn't it?

 

[Skunked tsi]

Pretty sure the reving had nothing to do with it, I run mine up to 9500 and have no ill effects from it at all. To the guy telling people you cant run 20psi on a stock motor is totally bs, obviously you will need fuel to support the added boost, whether it be racegas or bigger injectors. I run 27-30psi on a stock 2g 7bolt daily, aswell as multiple people around me all daily driven.
Tyler

 

[Mentow]

Spoolin4Ever: About the 6 bolt swap, what would i need to replace? EVERYTHING less the engine head, or just crank and flywheel? Im afraid that would be too expensive! And about the hardening on the crank, there are specialized places who can do that again. I dont know how much it would cost, but then i would machine the crank to 0.25mm and harden it again, that would suposely give me a good crank again. Doesnt this feel ok for you (except for been a 7 bolt hehe)?

Skunked: wow thats nice, so this engine is really strong as i was told. How much horsepower do you think (or knows) that our dsms are able to produce at 30psi?

Regards!

Michel

 

[Mentow]

i forgot to mention it: i've opened my engine, all of its bearings are fuc*** up. Not as bad as those who spun, but not good at all. So, i think i only pressed the button *detonate* heheheh...it was just a matter of time.

Thanks anyway for your help guys.

Regards,

Michel

 

[timloomis]

Ive only seen that happen once on a 6 bolt,and it was lack of oil.You had oil in it right?

 

[Mentow]

Ive only seen that happen once on a 6 bolt,and it was lack of oil.You had oil in it right?

the answer for that is "yes and no", hehehe.

I had a new castrol magnatec (about 500miles), but only about 3 liters, and since i've made a head rebuild (1 month ago), didnt change it. So im partialy guilty thas for sure, but i think the bearings were already wasted before me (i have it since 45k miles, now with 58). It also had a "hammer" sound coming from the engine (i just realized that by now), but i though to be lifter ticking sound. Changing the lifters 2 weeks ago, showed me that it wasnt lifters...so here i am

But its been nice anyway, im learning a lot

Regards!

Michel

 

[blackbyrd]

Ah, Lack of oil, definitely is was started my knock. Blew a rear main seal(somewhat) on a trip back from PA. Luckily I noticed it when I pulled into a gas station, but had already lost a couple quarts at least.

About your question what you need for the 6bolt swap..
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237983
Is my thread of me pretty much talking to myself, figuring out all the parts I need.
It's a bit of a jumbled mess, so if you have any questions let me know.

Good luck!

 

[yellowrs]

Alot of people say not to cut the cranks down, but we have with no ill effects. We have a car right now making 550-600 whp with a crank thats .010. just my .02 cents

 

[Skunked tsi]

Spoolin4Ever: About the 6 bolt swap, what would i need to replace? EVERYTHING less the engine head, or just crank and flywheel? Im afraid that would be too expensive! And about the hardening on the crank, there are specialized places who can do that again. I dont know how much it would cost, but then i would machine the crank to 0.25mm and harden it again, that would suposely give me a good crank again. Doesnt this feel ok for you (except for been a 7 bolt hehe)?

Skunked: wow thats nice, so this engine is really strong as i was told. How much horsepower do you think (or knows) that our dsms are able to produce at 30psi?

Regards!

Michel

25psi on my 50trim two years ago netted me an 11.7@118 on pump/water injection. My car is on the dyno with more goodies then I used to have later today. Although I would not say they 7bolts are Strong just not near as weak as everyone portrays them. If I were you I would honestly go with a 6 bolt if you plan on modding more, I am always curious when I may toss a rod, but I should be in the high 400hp range.
Tyler

 

[the_skin_eater]

What if the crank is turned down then re-hardened? Will that be fine?

And does anyone know what to harden it to?
( we send stuff over to heat treat all the time, its pretty cheap and easy for me to get)

 

[Mentow]

What if the crank is turned down then re-hardened? Will that be fine?

And does anyone know what to harden it to?
( we send stuff over to heat treat all the time, its pretty cheap and easy for me to get)

i had this idea in mind. Today i talked to some friends, and one of them said that as long as we are planing to use a rebuilt crankshaft that was machined down to one of its possible *allowed* specitications (.25, .50mm..), there would be no problems and no hardening process must be done.

BUT, looking at the 4g63 manual, this is what i found:

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So, does this means that there would be machining process possible for any 4g63 crank?? I would allow me to think that this could put an end to that question of us, skin_eater...and i would take the advice of some friend mentioned above, and buy a new one!

Regards,

Michel

 

[nightspeed87]

you could get your machined crank cryotreated like I did....

 

[Mentow]

you could get your machined crank cryotreated like I did....

could you say a little bit about this cryotreating that you've done? How much was your crank machined down?

Regards!

Michel

 

[nightspeed87]

I dont know but the 6bolt engine I rebuilt had a main bearing spin and weld onto the crank journal or over the hole at least, and I had everything machined out and put back to spec withing tolerance . I think its only like .0010 over or something I dont knwo really, but I hear the crankshaft is surfaced with some kind of nitrate that makes it more durable in our stock engines, and when you cut it your removing that nitrated surface which is probably what some of these guys are talking about. Anywho cryotreating basically greatly strengthens the material to a harder substance and I figured that would make up for the lost in structural integrity from the cut crank. Perhaps even stronger still with the cryotreating. Hopefully I wont spin a bearing down the line either, I didnt have money for a new crank thats the only reason I had to go this route.
By the way I also had my pistons and rings/ 6bolt rods/ bearings/ and a few head components cryoed.

Heres some info on cryotreating-
http://www.subzerocryo.com/auto.asp

 

[Mentow]

I dont know but the 6bolt engine I rebuilt had a main bearing spin and weld onto the crank journal or over the hole at least, and I had everything machined out and put back to spec withing tolerance . I think its only like .0010 over or something I dont knwo really, but I hear the crankshaft is surfaced with some kind of nitrate that makes it more durable in our stock engines, and when you cut it your removing that nitrated surface which is probably what some of these guys are talking about. Anywho cryotreating basically greatly strengthens the material to a harder substance and I figured that would make up for the lost in structural integrity from the cut crank. Perhaps even stronger still with the cryotreating. Hopefully I wont spin a bearing down the line either, I didnt have money for a new crank thats the only reason I had to go this route.
By the way I also had my pistons and rings/ 6bolt rods/ bearings/ and a few head components cryoed.

Heres some info on cryotreating-
http://www.subzerocryo.com/auto.asp

nice, im gonna do a little research about it.

one last question: how much did that cryotreat on your crank cost you?

Regards!

Michel