Head change question

[Cold Dark Shado]

I picked up a 93 Eclipse GS non turbo that has a turbo head on it. I think it was put on there because the original head was having problems and the turbo one was just rebuilt and handy at the time.

The car came with a 4G63T short block (thats where the head came off of). Im thinking about pulling the turbo head off the car and sticking another non turbo head back in it.

On to my question:
Before i decide and go and find an NT head Is there an advantage or dis0advange to having this turbo head on the car has it is now?

Thanks

 

[blackbyrd]

I wouldn't bother swapping the head. The only difference is the camshafts. and It's such a minute difference, you'll never know.
Your car has a 4g63T shortblock? That's the turbo model. 4G63, is non turbo.
Oh and GSX is the Eclipse Turbo AWD. GS, Is non turbo. Use the option N/T, for non-turbo.
Welcome to DSM's!

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

Ok thanks (on both questions) and the welcome

The car has the 4G63 in it, but i have a 4G63T short block as well that came with the car
I think ill save myself the "head"ache (sorry bad joke) and leave it on there then

The car has a rough idle right now as well
It cruises fine but at stops its really rough and almost dies it seems

I read about having the timing checked so i think Ill start there

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

I got another question

If the timing is off on these could the valves hit the piston?

Reason i ask is im getting a kindda loud snapping tick from the drivers side of the engine when running, it sounds like a really load lifter tick.

I know jack about OHC cars

 

[Irrational]

If the timing belt is not on correctly then yes you could be tapping the valves. I doubt it though. it could be the belt tenchoner on its way out. pull off the timing cover and check if the tenchoner is in spec. also check if the timing is correct while you are in there. Who put the new head on? Did they do a new belt and tenchoner while in there?

 

[blackbyrd]

Yes, these are interferon motors. The valves will hit the pistons. You should check your timing marks if in doubt.
These cars are also natorious for lifter tick, which is attributed to poor lifter design and flow. Without hearing it i can't tell you for sure what it is. But a newer set of 3g lifters or something will get rid of the lifter tick, as well as many other debated remedies. Search around for lifter tick.

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

the previous owner of the guy i got it from swapped the head
he also changed the water pump, belt and some other stuff. I can find out if the tensioner was replaced as well

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

Yes, these are interferon motors. The valves will hit the pistons. You should check your timing marks if it doubt.
These cars are also natorious for lifter tick, which is attributed to poor lifter design and flow. Without hearing it i can't tell you for sure what it is. But a newer set of 3g lifters or something will get rid of the lifter tick, as well as many other debated remedies. Search around for lifter tick.

Ill see if i can find a way to get a sound clip of it so you can hear what it sounds like.
I dont own a timing light or anything out side of "the normal set" of hand tool. Ill have to take it in tomorrow and have the timming checked. Ill see if i can get ahold of the guy that did the head job and see what was all done

thanks for the help guys

 

[blackbyrd]

You don't need a timing light to check the timing marks.
You'll need to take off your timing cover(which you can do with normal hand tools)
And then check your marks on your sprockets, to make sure they line up.

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

oh ok,

I got a shot of it with sound on my cell, just tryin to figure out how to get it from it to my comp

 

[blackbyrd]

Can't you email it from your cell? In like a MultiMedia Text message?
I'll try to make a write up or find one, for checking your timing belt if you need one.

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

Thanks I had to setup an email account thru my cell phone couldnt just text it because it was to big
EDIT:
I got it converted to mpg, here it is
Thanks again for the help

Please right click and save as
http://skullwerkz.com/forumpics/dsmpartsfs/10-22-06_1711.mpg

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

found out he did the timing belt, water pump, tentioner, Balance shaft
belt, and put the turbo head on it. I thought he did the complete 60K on it but i guess not

You can kindda hear it in the vid that it also has a bit of an un-even idle

 

[carsaval]

wow thats bad. Thats not the normal lifter noise that i live with on a daily basis, I think he may have got the timing wrong. or would having the high compresion pistons hit the valves because of the cams ?

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

yea it sounds a little more then just "normal" lifter tick, glad i figured out how i could post the vid instead of tryin to explain it

if the belt jumped a tooth would you feel it? if so what would it do?

 

[GST with PSI]

yea it sounds a little more then just "normal" lifter tick, glad i figured out how i could post the vid instead of tryin to explain it

if the belt jumped a tooth would you feel it? if so what would it do?

If you timing belt jumps at all you will feel a difference if your lucky. Most of the time the only thing you feel after a timing belt failure is a sudden clunk followed by a coast onto the shoulder. Often times when a timing belt jumps, it skips teeth on the crankshaft cog. This is because the crankshaft's cog has a much smaller working surface area in comparison to the size of the camshaft gears. from my experience, 3 teeth advanced on the crankshaft with the cams still in time will allow the car to still run without any valve damage. The car will run extremely poorly if at all. If the camshaft cogs skip belt teeth, small effects are much more forgiving. Because of the large circumference, rotation is divided allowing the cam to turn slower in relation to the crankshaft (half speed). A couple teeth off on one cam with the other components in time shouldn't damage any of the valve train, but you will likely notice a difference in the cars performance if any changes in the vehicles timing ocour. However, If you have a combination of any of the above, or if the belt breaks you might as well plan on a valve job. Something to think about.

 

[blackbyrd]

I'm sorry to hear that.. That sounds like an F'ed up valvetrain... How's your oil pressure? are you getting oil up there? It probably jumped a tooth.. As far as feeling it, you might have a loss of power..

Edit: Too slow, ^^^Good post.

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

Thats pretty close to what it did
We were stopped, hit the gas to go, heard a big like grrrrrr, clunk and then the ticking

according to the oil gauge its still good and when you hit the gas to go there a bit of hasitation before like the "power" kicks in, not sure how to explain it

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

OK i got ahold of the previous owner that had it before the guy i got it from and the only things he did to it was:
recently rebuilt turbo head. new head gasket, new waterpump, newer timing belt, all new gaskets from the head up,new battery,oil change, new coolant, etc
He didnt do the Tensioner, H. balancer or balance shft belt

Ill see what i find tomorrow if its a decent day out

Thanks again for all the help guys

Hopefully its nothing serious, this needs to be a daily driver for my wife for a little while (possibly thru winter)

 

[GVR4592]

It sounds kind of like a failed hydraulic tensioner and a big exhaust leak. I would pull the timing belt covers off and check everything out.

http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

Thanks for the link


I pulled the upper cover and heres a couple shots of the gears, what should they be at?

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[Cold Dark Shado]

I went down and fired it up again to see if i could find anythign else out
I did notice that there is 2 ticks
The normal Lifter tick and a second snapping tick, sounds like it coming from the lower end of the drivers side engine.
That tick comes and goes, its there for a few minutes then goes for a minute then back again
when in gear its got a rought idle (between 800-1K) in park or N it idles about 1200 or so pretty decent

 

[blackbyrd]

Do you notice the tick at any specific rpms, or only while decelerating or accelerating?
You'll need to take off your lower timing belt cover to check the rest of the timing marks. Your cams look together though, but doesnt mean your crank hasn't skipped, like mentioned above^^.

 

[Deagle_TT]

I did notice that there is 2 ticks
The normal Lifter tick and a second snapping tick, sounds like it coming from the lower end of the drivers side engine.
pretty decent

I had never noticed any kind of snapping tick. just a very vivd ticking from the lifters... I think somehting happend on your drive home.

Anybody know WTF culd cause the car to make a "GRR" noise and bog down? because that's when they noticed it.

*p.s., I am the guy he got the car from and I had been driving it for 2 months without any suspicious noises. I used to own a 3000GT VR4 so I am quite familiar with lifter tick.

 

[Cold Dark Shado]

Do you notice the tick at any specific rpms, or only while decelerating or accelerating?
You'll need to take off your lower timing belt cover to check the rest of the timing marks. Your cams look together though, but doesnt mean your crank hasn't skipped, like mentioned above^^.

Its pretty constant thru the RPM range, gettin on the throttle in park it does go away a bit, i think, it might just be downded out by the rev of the engine.

Lettin off the throttle you can hear it same as before