more timing belt issues

[nuclearpenguin]

After having all these problems and assuming my timing belt skip a tooth, I found it was really loose so I decided I'd reset my timing to spec and then try to retense the belt and track down the problem. The issue here is, I can't get the crank to rotate any further. It's come to a stopping point and refuses to turn any further CW. I'm under the assumption I'm hitting valves. How can I get around this?

Thanks

 

[blackbyrd]

Woah, easy there man. Either retime it, attach your tbelt to turn the crank, or take the head off.

 

[nuclearpenguin]

The t-belt is still on all the gears and everything, but I was turning the crank to get no.1 to tdc and it stopped probably an inch from the mark on the gear and refuses to go any further. So what now?

 

[Quasimondo]

Re-install the belt from scratch.

 

[blackbyrd]

haha my bad, I thought I read you had the belt off. You should be careful dont try to force it if it's hitting the valves. Adjust the camshafts.

 

[VanIsleDSM]

make sure all the timing marks are lined up.

 

[nuclearpenguin]

Ok.

How do I need to rotate the cams so that they move with me?

 

[nuclearpenguin]

Pretty much what I need to know is how can I monitor which valves are open and when? Is there any diagram showing where in the rotation of the camshaft that the valves are open and which ones? In one rotation of the camshaft, all of the valves open and close right?

I hope my valves are ok.

 

[Quasimondo]

I'm not sure how you're trying to go about doing this, but your best bet is to take the belt back off and turn everything individually.

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Turn each cam until the dowels are near the 12 o'clock position then try moving the crank again.

 

[toybreaker]

^^^ what he said^^^

In addition, I would actually recommend turning the motor backwards (ccw) a schosche to get the valves off the piston.

Remove the belt.

Turn the crank ccw till the crank timing mark is ~ 9 o clock.

Reset your cams, dowel up.

Turn the crank cw till the mark lines up, and finish the job, using the vfaq as a guide.

The reason for going back to 9 0 clock is there will be no valvetrain interference if none of the pistons are near tdc. If you try resetting things near tdc, you run the risk of kissing the valvetrain off the pistons, as you rotate the cams to set them up.

Good luck, and I would recommend a leak down test if things don't turn out well, or it's got a funky idle. It's better to get bent valves out of the motor now, then after one of the heads snaps off from being bent, then boosted.

 

[nuclearpenguin]

yes! That's the type of answer I was looking for Rep points for you!

So, if i'm still like 1/6 of a rotation (of the CS) from the timing mark when the crank stops, is it safe to say the valves are bent? (the car was running with the timing like this, well, not running, but I sure tried to make it run). I've already drained the coolant assuming I'd need to pull the head off and I already have all the stuff off to remove the tb so I'm most of the way to getting the head off, should I just go ahead and remove it and look? I figure I can just buy the valves and take the head off and pay someone to install the valves into the head (if needed).

Thanks

Edit: Would a boost leak test be as good as a leakdown? I mean, if the valves are bent, I'll be hearing compressed air leave the exhaust right? I don't have the money for one of those expensive valves or to pay someone to do it.

 

[toybreaker]

The cams would have to be set correctly, or you could blow air thru past open intake and exhaust valves on the same cylinder.

I would definately set the belt up and check it before dissassembling things.

Every now and then we get lucky...(If you do, but a lotto ticket, it doesn't happen often.)

I bought a cheesmo compression tester at wal mart, because I hate taking my nice set out of the shop. It has replacable hoses for the different size plug holes. It turns out that the quick release fitting on those hoses is the same as my shop air lines. I just thread the hose in to the cylinder I want to check, set it to tdc, and then I just plug shop air (at a reduced pressure, ~90psi~) on to the hose at tdc, and listen for escaping air.

It's a poor mans leakdown tester, (~20 bucks, discount isle, ftw ),but it works for what you want to do.

If you don't have shop air, you can buy a portable air tank ($~14.99, one aisle over ), and a set of quick release fittings to put on the air tank hose. I've done this several times to check/diagnose cars in another state/away from the shop. If you're quick, you can check the whole motor on one tankfull.

Just make sure you're at tdc, because it will roll the motor one way or another. Don't leave a ratchet or anything on the crank, because if the motor rolls, it'll whack stuff/loosen the crank bolt etc..

Start on #1, test it, then turn the crank 180*, (cam gear dowels to 3 o clock) and check #3, turn the crank 180* (to tdc again, #4, cam dowels down) check cylinder #4, and then one more turn of 180* puts you on #2 tdc, (dowels at 9 o clock)

Good luck, and let us know what you find.

 

[nuclearpenguin]

Right. Frickin. On. I'll retime tonight and do a leakdown. (I'll just trust the results of the leakdown and wont even start the car) and see where we're at.

Thanks man.

 

[nuclearpenguin]

I got the tensioner off and the belt off then turned the crank pulley to 9 o-clock and tried turning the exhaust cam gear (clockwise, mind you) and the cam gear sprung back to its position after i turned it. I'm afraid to turn it further, is this normal?

 

[VanIsleDSM]

yeah that's normal, as soon as I took off my t-belt to change it the cam gears sprung out, especially the exhaust cam, it took quite a bit of effort to turn it back to time by hand, and if you let it go it would snap right back, I zap strapped the new t-belt around it and the intake cam held it in place.