mad dsm'er slowboy 7cm gasket

[boredguy128]

So I ported my turbo with the slowboy 7cm gasket, and ya one of my turbo bolts broke(2 months later). I know 9 times out of 10 the screw ups/problems I see are cause of the people and never happen to me. But this is the first to happen to me. One of my turbo bolts broke with the slow boy racing 7cm gasket.

Just wanted others to know.

It didn't happen till a few months after the 3rd time I wasted hours porting every thing.

I read threads here that warned, warned me about this common problem with this company but I didn't believe them. Because no other common problem threads have come true for me.

But you guys definitely predicted this one. I should have listened to you guys on this one in the first place.

I learn every thing the hard way. Hopefully the antiseize makes the bolt come out easy when I have time.

 

[Wicked96GS-T]

I don't see how using Slowboy's 7cm gasket would cause your turbo bolt to break .

 

[SBstar]

First of all this isn't the correct place to post something like this. Look up the vendors reviewed site. Secondly a gasket isn't going to make your turbo bolt break. You either overtorqued it, improperly threaded it, or it was just plain old and brittle. Unless you have some explanation how a gasket broke your bolt.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

the above two are correct.. your SBR gasket had nothing to do with your turbo breaking. were your turbo bolts new? did you antiseize them?

either way, if you broke a stud in the housing, do yourself a favor and have a machine shop drill/retap it. it will save you hours of headaches fighting to get it out with an EZOUT.

goodluck

 

[beat90tsi]

Actually, I had a problem with an SBR 7cm gasket. They installed my E316G turbo while fixing my engine because the timing tensioner crapped out on my 4 week old SBR longblock. I'll refrain from further comment on that ordeal. All was well with the 2nd go-round on my engine, until I took my turbo off to port it, and 3 out of 4 bolts broke. I thought maybe they used the old bolts from my 14b, who knows, maybe they did. So I spend the next few days trying to extract them, buy 4 new mitsu bolts, and after a successful porting job, try to throw it all back together. As a side note, some of the threads were really jacked up after I finally got them out.

While bolting the turbo back on, I find that my bolts won't thread properly, they all feel like they're cross-threading. Then I take it apart, and see that the holes on the gasket were off just enough that it rubbed on the threads of the bolts. I ruined one bolt in the process, then drilled out the holes in the gasket, and put it back together, no binding on the threads. Basically my gasket was out of spec, the holes were too far apart. A gasket installed at SBR.

My guess is that when SBR put it together, they just railed them in anyway, and that's why my shit all broke when I took it apart. So in my experience, a poorly made/sized gasket can screw up your turbo bolts.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Actually, I had a problem with an SBR 7cm gasket. They installed my E316G turbo while fixing my engine because the timing tensioner crapped out on my 4 week old SBR longblock. I'll refrain from further comment on that ordeal. All was well with the 2nd go-round on my engine, until I took my turbo off to port it, and 3 out of 4 bolts broke. I thought maybe they used the old bolts from my 14b, who knows, maybe they did. So I spend the next few days trying to extract them, buy 4 new mitsu bolts, and after a successful porting job, try to throw it all back together. As a side note, some of the threads were really jacked up after I finally got them out.

While bolting the turbo back on, I find that my bolts won't thread properly, they all feel like they're cross-threading. Then I take it apart, and see that the holes on the gasket were off just enough that it rubbed on the threads of the bolts. I ruined one bolt in the process, then drilled out the holes in the gasket, and put it back together, no binding on the threads. Basically my gasket was out of spec, the holes were too far apart. A gasket installed at SBR.

My guess is that when SBR put it together, they just railed them in anyway, and that's why my shit all broke when I took it apart. So in my experience, a poorly made/sized gasket can screw up your turbo bolts.

I concur. This has happened to me for the same reason. but it did not break the bolt like the first poster was talking about (hence I did not post about it).

I guess the easiest way to avoid this potential problem is check the alignment of the gasket before you put it on.. and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS use antiseize. and a lot of it.

 

[99gst_racer]

your SBR gasket had nothing to do with your turbo breaking.

That might not be entirely true. While this has not been proven to be factual (yet), many people have had this exact same problem with the exact same conditions.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184607&highlight=rre+gasket

 

[Spyderman7]

The gasket has nothing to do with broken bolts.You should run a tap through first to clean the threads.Use new bolts with antiseize.And when removing bolts start the engine and warm it up for about 10 minutes.It's hot to work on but after you've broken as many bolts as I have you'll find it's way easier than trying drill those hard ass turbo bolts. All the bolts I've broken were on stock,cold,unported turbos with stock gaskets.Heat works good on downpipe bolts and exhaust manifold bolts too.

 

[project_tsi]

The gasket has nothing to do with broken bolts..

Bullshit.

6 months ago I purchased SBR's manifold, and it came w/ their 7cm ss thick turbo to manifold gasket. This season I broke off 2 OEM and 2 aftermarket high heat bolts in the turbo, not knowing why. Ask Paul, he knows I used liberal amounts of antiseaze and I had a brand new Bullseye turnine housing! I ALWAYS check threads before putting in bolts and torqueing them down.

Anyways I finally got all my problems figured out and no longer needed to drop the turbo and was able to keep in on the rest of the season. Now, a week ago I pulled the turbo and manifold off for other work to the engine, and inspected everything. I noticed when I put the SBR gasket up to the manifold flange or the Bulseye housing flange, that all 4 of the bolt holes were approx 1/4 in" off of the center off the holes. Obviously the gasket had warped, and stretched and had coused the bolts to lock up uppon removal.

I also inspected my bolts, and where the threads had been screwed past the gasket, into the threads, I could easily tell the threads were very damaged from nothing but riding up against the warped gasket.

So in turn, Yes, the gasket has something to do w/ breaking the bolts.

I will try to take pics of the gasket no longer lining up and post them tonight or tommorow.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Bullshit.

x2

Gasket warping can push the bolt to one side, causing it to not thread in or out properly, causing stripping/breaking.

 

[wolf20043]

First of all this isn't the correct place to post something like this. Look up the vendors reviewed site. Secondly a gasket isn't going to make your turbo bolt break. You either overtorqued it, improperly threaded it, or it was just plain old and brittle. Unless you have some explanation how a gasket broke your bolt.

would the proper statement be "unless you can prove the gasket didnt do it?" . It seems that a lot of people have had this issue, meaning that the only common denominator is the gasket. No one in any way is accusing the Vendor, so vendor feed back is not really the issue. He is pointing out some very valuable info for others to reasearch before making a purchase, and finding solutions to fix the problem. My two cents anyway.
Mike

 

[97EclipseGS-T]

#### me.... Shit on a stick... I bought that gasket to use on my SS.... I mean tubular manifold ( its SSautochrome) thinking it was unbreakable. I dunno, i like doing buisness with slowboyracing and they always provide excellent service to me. I never had a problem.... actually when i do have an issue with my car i sometimes call them for their opinion and I can be on the phone with them for a while.... Thanx for the help SBR

HAHAHA I just realized.... I used Homecheapo bolts too because you can't use the stock studs...and I was desperate to put everything in to put pictures on my website

isnt that a ####ing perfect combination

7cm SB gasket+ Ssautchrome manifold + Home Cheapo bolts = accident waiting to happen

 

[Slowboy]

Bullshit.

6 months ago I purchased SBR's manifold, and it came w/ their 7cm ss thick turbo to manifold gasket. This season I broke off 2 OEM and 2 aftermarket high heat bolts in the turbo, not knowing why. Ask Paul, he knows I used liberal amounts of antiseaze and I had a brand new Bullseye turnine housing! I ALWAYS check threads before putting in bolts and torqueing them down.

Anyways I finally got all my problems figured out and no longer needed to drop the turbo and was able to keep in on the rest of the season. Now, a week ago I pulled the turbo and manifold off for other work to the engine, and inspected everything. I noticed when I put the SBR gasket up to the manifold flange or the Bulseye housing flange, that all 4 of the bolt holes were approx 1/4 in" off of the center off the holes. Obviously the gasket had warped, and stretched and had coused the bolts to lock up uppon removal.

I also inspected my bolts, and where the threads had been screwed past the gasket, into the threads, I could easily tell the threads were very damaged from nothing but riding up against the warped gasket.

So in turn, Yes, the gasket has something to do w/ breaking the bolts.

I will try to take pics of the gasket no longer lining up and post them tonight or tommorow.

We make 500 of these gaskets at a time.

They are 316 SS, and cannot "stretch" or "warp" if the turbo bolts are properly torqued. The problem is, we make the holes large enough to allow the gaskets to be moved about 1/8" and you really need to pay attention to this when installing it. If you do not, you are liable to run a bolt down while stripping the threads on the way down (gasket not lined up correctly), causing you not to be able to properly torque the bolt, and it breaks upon removal. Its really that simple.

We sell about 2,000 of these gaskets a year, and use them ourselves. In four years we have only made one revision, and that was to make the gasket a little thicker.

Any more questions, feel free to PM me, I will help the best I can!

MGH

 

[wolf20043]

We make 500 of these gaskets at a time.

They are 316 SS, and cannot "stretch" or "warp" if the turbo bolts are properly torqued. The problem is, we make the holes large enough to allow the gaskets to be moved about 1/8" and you really need to pay attention to this when installing it. If you do not, you are liable to run a bolt down while stripping the threads on the way down (gasket not lined up correctly), causing you not to be able to properly torque the bolt, and it breaks upon removal. Its really that simple.

We sell about 2,000 of these gaskets a year, and use them ourselves. In four years we have only made one revision, and that was to make the gasket a little thicker.

Any more questions, feel free to PM me, I will help the best I can!

MGH

Thanks for chiming in Bro.
Mike

 

[BaddAssGst]

Any reason you would even want the gasket to be able to move 1/8th of an inch either way?

 

[44pirate]

#### me.... Shit on a stick... I bought that gasket to use on my SS.... I mean tubular manifold ( its SSautochrome) thinking it was unbreakable. I dunno, i like doing buisness with slowboyracing and they always provide excellent service to me. I never had a problem.... actually when i do have an issue with my car i sometimes call them for their opinion and I can be on the phone with them for a while.... Thanx for the help SBR

HAHAHA I just realized.... I used Homecheapo bolts too because you can't use the stock studs...and I was desperate to put everything in to put pictures on my website

isnt that a ####ing perfect combination

7cm SB gasket+ Ssautchrome manifold + Home Cheapo bolts = accident waiting to happen

I found the OEM O2 housing bolts are the perfect length. That's what I used on my XSPOWER

 

[JohnTSI]

I have ran one of these gaskets on my car for some time now and have had to remove the turbo more than once; I have yet to have a problem with it. Like Mike said you do have to make sure it is lined up properly. I see no way that it could warp or distort if torques down correctly. And no matter what the rest of you say I have done a lot of business with Mike and the rest of Slowboy and have NEVER had a real problem with them, they have always provided me with great service even when things have gone wrong. Who can argue with a company that makes a mistake and to make up for it gives you a free 35R .

John

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

x2

Gasket warping can push the bolt to one side, causing it to not thread in or out properly, causing stripping/breaking.

For the record, I have no idea what "brand" gasket I used. The guy I bought the car from gave it to me, and it never gave me any problems. My statement was based on other's experiences.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Just to add.. the generic "grey" anti-sieze is nickle based and not recommended for high temp applications. Copper-based anti-sieze is what you need.

Took me $200+ of helicoils, e-z outs and machine work to realize this mistake

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Just to add.. the generic "grey" anti-sieze is nickle based and not recommended for high temp applications. Copper-based anti-sieze is what you need.

Took me $200+ of helicoils, e-z outs and machine work to realize this mistake

wow.. didn't even know they made other types than the grey one

 

[rowlex]

I've been using an RRE 7cm manifold to turbo gasket. re-used it numerous times. I very rarely use a torque wrench, I've even had all 4 bolts back out a little bit before. Not once has the gasket given me any troubles, nor have i had trouble getting a turbo bolt out.

 

[underradar92]

although i've never heard of this problem before, i am making a titanium gasket because ss will work-harden. i know a guy who broke one at a track day at road america, so we are going to try ti this spring. i may make more if there is any interest. i don't know a price yet.

 

[GRNDSM]

Just to add.. the generic "grey" anti-sieze is nickle based and not recommended for high temp applications. Copper-based anti-sieze is what you need.

Took me $200+ of helicoils, e-z outs and machine work to realize this mistake

John is onto something here! I keep seeing recommendation to use liberal amounts of anti-seize… Since most people use run of mill Permotex anti-seize (heat rating of 1600deg F), that often causes a problem. Our exhaust manifolds and turbo inlets see EGTs that can be as high as 1750deg F under extreme conditions. Granted, the turbine housing itself tends to be a bit cooler, but that is still too close to the limit for my comfort. When it is overheated, anti-seize burns up and turns into “powdery substance” which can in some cases cause gulling of the threads.

So when many of you think that “more is better”, when it comes to using anti seize on your turbo bolts, you might be doing MORE harm than good.

My recommendations:

1. Try to get higher rated anti-seize, it isn’t always easy to find, but there are many industrial applications which go much higher.

2. If you must use regular anti-seize on the turbo bolts, use MINIMAL amount. You might still have a problem, but it will not be as likely.

3 Do NOT over-tighten the bolts. This is always a good idea but especially true when using under-rated anti-seize! Remember how ARP has a chart of torque values with and with out their lube? Well, anti-seize serves a lubricant, allowing you to tighten the bolts to a higher force, using the same toque (50ft*lbs lubed, might actually be closer to 70ft*lbs dry). When you go unscrew it, instead of slippery anti-seize you will have burned up “powdery substance” (something that does not happen with engine ARP studs). Now, you can imagine just how much worse the entire situation gets if you over-tightened the bolts in the first place for “good measures”.

And I am not even going into the opposite problem common with those darn bolts: vibrating loose .

SBR gasket has nothing to do with this problem, it existed long before SBR was founded or made this gasket

 

[Slowboy]

Any reason you would even want the gasket to be able to move 1/8th of an inch either way?

Yes, so people would not strip the bolt running them down if the gasket hole was tight on the bolts, meaning a little extra clearance.

MGH

 

[boredguy128]

follow up

I did use a torque wrench, they were original mitsu bolts, and I did everything the same like the last 5 times i have taken it off. I have read posts about that gasket before breakin bolts but didn't believe them. When I got the gasket and saw how super thick it was I questioned it, but I said what the hell I will use it anyways won't happen to me. I have only had to do will CTE/TCE for circuit boards for design. I ran it by a fellow mech engineer friend of mine, he laughed but we really didn't discuss it any further. Sometime we will look into it farther, work out some equations for that metal and its thickness and figure how much it will expand.

It is CONSIDERABLY thicker than the OE one that was in perfect shape.

My theory behind it is that the OE bolts were old and went through a lot of thermal cycles in the last 15years. In a nut shell extreme thermal cycles on metals of any kind for years i believe makes it soft or something like that. Materials class was a long time ago. But anyways old thermal cycled bolts plus gasket that will expand more would equal snapped bolt.


I wouldn't say its slowboys fault. Its a combination of things.



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