AWD intermediate shaft bolt help

[And_44]

Had a question about the 2 bolts that hold the bearing bracket onto the block (MB297860) I've called my local satan to see if they have them available they don't have them in stock any where on west coast but can order them for $8 each and will have them in 1-2 weeks.

Don't wanna spend $16 just for 2 bolts and then another $5 each for the washers. So $26 + tax for 2 bolts and washers seems rediculous. Is there an alternative I can use or do they have to be exactly this bolt? Can I get them off a n/t car? Local pick n pulls are filled with n/t and local part outs are pretty stingy when it just comes to get bolts.

Or if I went to my Tacoma screw and bolt, or parts store can I purchase a suitable replacement?

 

[luv2rallye]

Need factory ones - they have a special "nosing" on the end to prevent the threads from bottoming out: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...rs-side-axle-bracket-bolts.html#post151579347.

 

[bryanwheat]

The non threaded part on the end of the bolt has nothing to do with not bottoming the threads out, it is to help line up the bolt while installing it. Pretty much just a guide on the tip of the bolt. If you get a similar length bolt that is the same strength than it will work just fine.

 

[luv2rallye]

Thanx for the correction. But I strongly suggest using a grade 10 with locktight as more than 1 person has reported breaking grade 8's.

 

[And_44]

Well good news. Got 2 grade 10 bolts from Tacoma Bolt and with tax came to $3.26 and took under 5 minutes. Just got to stop by auto store and get lock washers.

 

[donniekak]

Well good news. Got 2 grade 10 bolts from Tacoma Bolt and with tax came to $3.26 and took under 5 minutes. Just got to stop by auto store and get lock washers.

They will still break. The factory bolts have a dog point, and special shoulder, they also serve as alignment dowels. I've broken every bolt i've ever used, except oem.

 

[And_44]

Wonder what's the difference in them then between same or higher grades and where you get them from?

I do believe I read that the OEM ones are grade 8. Having the point on end for alignment doesn't matter if you can get them both in.

And a special shoulder? Right below the head? Wouldn't effect much maybe the washers.

Guess I got lucky the one bolt that was remaining in before was a grade 8 and just backed itself out. The 2nd bolt is non-exsistant just missing.

These are rated higher so feel pretty confident that they will work. The others that broke what kind of abuse did they take? I read the hearsay about some saying they heard that someone used and it broke but didn't find any first hand accounts. So hearsay I don't take to seriously.

Ultimate goal for me is 350-400 HP streetable. I don't launch often in any of my previous dsm's. So this one wouldn't be any different.

I'll give a try and if they break won't be hearing me complain. Haha, I'll just get them removed and replaced with OEM. And if they work for an extended amount of time I'll say they are working for my purpose.

But $8 for an obvisouly pretty normal grade 8 bolt that has a rounded tip and a shoulder is a rip and 1-2 weeks for shipping through mitsu dealership.... I could actually take the bolt into work and make a tip on them. Got them at 35mm which is about 1.5 inch. More then enough to make a tip.

Well, I'm glad I posted this thread, and Thank you very much donniekak about the tid bit about the "shoulder". I was curious what you were talking about so investigated further about it.

Apperently the holes in the bracket are slightly larger then the threaded part of bolt. This "shoulder" correct term is shank. The shank of the bolt is slightly larger then the threaded part to fill the area in the backet.

Apperently and very possible. Still haven't found first hand accounts of broken normal bolts. But with the hole being slightly larger then bolt it would give the bracket enough room to get enough momentum to break a bolt. So there for the shank has to be present so there is no movement of the bracket. Either the OEM bolt or if a bushing can be found to fill the area on a bolt.

Apperently the bolts are no longer in production according to the dealership around here that supports Eagle. And mitsu has to order from oversea's and will have it in 1-2 weeks at a lovely price of $8 each. Hope there made of titanium.

 

[luv2rallye]

Apperently the holes in the bracket are slightly larger then the threaded part of bolt. This "shoulder" correct term is shank. The shank of the bolt is slightly larger then the threaded part to fill the area in the backet.

Apperently and very possible. Still haven't found first hand accounts of broken normal bolts. But with the hole being slightly larger then bolt it would give the bracket enough room to get enough momentum to break a bolt. So there for the shank has to be present so there is no movement of the bracket. Either the OEM bolt or if a bushing can be found to fill the area on a bolt.

Thanx for taking time to investigate this and posting for all to read. Should help the many who keep asking about these bolts. I'll send them here from now on (I didn't know as I have FWD which doesn't have the bracket so I just posted what someone else had claimed was the difference. Now we know the real story - good job. I gave you rep points for your considerate effort).

For those who are wondering, the factory part #'s are:
MB297860 - Bolt
MF450406 - Washer

 

[And_44]

Now, I've never seen these bolts before as the one that fell out was a normal bolt threaded from tip to head and oher was missing but was curious if these bolts looked like what comes out?

Titanium Hex Head M10 x 1.25mm x 35mm Race Spec - Race Spec Bolts - Titanium

or

Stainless Steel Socket Cap Bolt M10 x (1.25mm) x 35mm - Tapered Socket Cap Bolts - Stainless Steel

 

[luv2rallye]

If anyone would post a picture of the real factory bolt (MB297860) that would be helpful for everyone.

 

[And_44]

Ordered new bolts and washers from Satan. Will arrive sometime after the 3rd of May. Will figure out how to post pics of them then.

 

[leepen]

If anyone would post a picture of the real factory bolt (MB297860) that would be helpful for everyone.

just got these in today....grade 7 OEM axle bolts

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[And_44]

Hey how did you get my bolts!!! Haha, j/k. But yea, got mine in yesterday they are identical. The grade 7 though threw me off. The guy at the dealership wanted to open the package when I arrived to pick them up. He was just as curious as I was o why these where so special and pricey.

But they'll serve there purpose.

Thanks for posting pic. I haven't really figured out how to do so yet.

 

[leepen]

Hey how did you get my bolts!!! Haha, j/k. But yea, got mine in yesterday they are identical. The grade 7 though threw me off. The guy at the dealership wanted to open the package when I arrived to pick them up. He was just as curious as I was o why these where so special and pricey.

But they'll serve there purpose.

Thanks for posting pic. I haven't really figured out how to do so yet.

I host the pictures on Photobucket then link them here. I hear there is a differient way to do it on the forum, but Im a old dog and to dumb to learn new tricks. I got thte bolts for $2.18 each

 

[We're on Boost]

I didn't know this fitting was such a problem until one of my bolts broke.
When I found this, the passenger side bolt was still tight. The driver side bolt was broken and hanging onto itself by a whisker. That one has a spacer under the housing foot.
I had not been checking the bolts for tightness. So maybe they loosened up enough to let the bearing housing move around a little bit and that would have eventually broke the bolt. Just a guess.
They are marked "7" on the head. If that is the metric strength class, that is not a very strong class, but I don't necessarily blame that for the bolts breaking.

In this pic are the 2 original OEM bolts I took out (one broken) and a new bolt like the new ones I put in. New, generic, class 10.9 zinc plated JIS flange head bolt (see 2nd pic) 10mm x 1.25mm x 40mm.
You can see the threads on the OEM bolt go out to a little over 41mm from the bolt head.
The OEM lock washers are 0.090" thick.
The threads on the new bolts I put in only go out to 40mm.
I used flat washers under them that measure 0.076" thick. Since these are flange head bolts it would probably be better to just use them without any washer - would give another ~1.5 turns of thread engagement - if they will go in all the way.

Getting the broken part of the broken bolt out was a pain. It was still threaded into the block. The spacer wouldn't fall out - it was loose but I couldn't pull it out of there. So I needed a tool to go in the hole that could bite into the broken part and spin it out counter clockwise. I used a Left-Handed Lathe Bit made from a 1/4" lathe tool blank. Held it and turned it with a square socket on a small wrench handle. Worked! This exact tool bit sold by Sherline is what I used.

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I have used these, from Fasenal, with no failures yet. But only if I didn't have the proper hardware. They are on the Auto car IIRC.

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[donniekak]

The problem is that the Dsm bracket is made to be aligned by the bolts, they double as dowels.

Look at a 3000gt bracket. It has 2 dowels to align it, and uses regular bolts.

 

[CrackedDSM]

This makes me glad I spent money to put the OEM bolts back in. Had no idea it was such an issue for others.

 

[We're on Boost]

The problem is that the Dsm bracket is made to be aligned by the bolts, they double as dowels.

That is what it feels like when I put bolts in this thing. They fight me on the way in. I'm doing it with everything put together in the car. So the bracket, the bolts, the shafts and bearing, and the holes in the block, they are all possibly part of the problem, but if the bolts are a super close fit in the bracket holes I think that would explain most of the fighting I get from them.
The OEM bolt body measures 0.390" (10mm is 0.3937") which is standard for a 10mm bolt.
I should have made an effort to measure the ID of one of the bracket holes when I had the bolt out, but I didn't.
I don't have proper gauges in that size range anyway.
Have you ever measured the ID of those bolt holes in the bracket?

 

[pauleyman]

I've never had one of those bolts fight me. Try screwing one in all by itself. How does it feel?
On using them as dowels that doesn't make much sense to me. I have no idea why they have that machined end. A bolt is centered all on its own. The holes in the bracket aren't all that precision fit so centering doesn't seem like an issue. I'm going to speculate heavily that those holes couldn't be tapped any further so an option to get threads to the "bottom" they simply drilled a little more and changed the bolt design.

 

[We're on Boost]

Try screwing one in all by itself. How does it feel?

Even then there is some fight back from something. The bracket doesn't seem to want to move. I suppose that's because the shafts are in it. I never had both bolts entirely out at the same time because I was afraid that if the bracket did decide to move at all it would be out of position and I wouldn't be able to get the bolts started back into the block threads.
But anyway with one bolt entirely out and the other bolt just turning in or out, there was still a lot of drag on the bolt while trying to turn it. I didn't have any trouble starting the threads into the block TG. I mean the bolt gets quite a bit of drag while turning, which must be from rubbing on the inside of the bracket hole, which must mean that the bracket wants to be in some other position that is just like 5 or 6 thou away from where the bolt is trying to put it. Is what it feels like. I think the threads in the block are OK judging by the undamaged threads on the nose end of the old bolts, and by the fact that I was able to spin the broken part out the way I did, which is a way that can't put much torque through.

 

[pauleyman]

The bracket and axle is heavy. Hold it up and it won't drag.

 

[donniekak]

I've never had one of those bolts fight me. Try screwing one in all by itself. How does it feel?
On using them as dowels that doesn't make much sense to me. I have no idea why they have that machined end. A bolt is centered all on its own. The holes in the bracket aren't all that precision fit so centering doesn't seem like an issue. I'm going to speculate heavily that those holes couldn't be tapped any further so an option to get threads to the "bottom" they simply drilled a little more and changed the bolt design.

A bolt is used for clamping. Locating parts is usually done with dowels. They combined the two.

Think of a clutch pressure plate. All the bolts do is clamp it down. The solid dowel pins locate the pressure plate to the flywheel.

 

[We're on Boost]

@19Eclipse90
Brian, I notice that this bolt isn't shown in Version 2 of the bolt torque pdf. It's in Version 1 though. There it's called a Carrier Bearing to Engine Block Bolt. No biggie, just wanted to mention it!

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