How much boost are you trying to run? Looks like 15-16psi? If this isn't true your MAF needs to be calibrated. What are you Lo & Mid LTFT's? Looks like your running 750's with a global setting of -38, so your trims should be in the ball park (but these need to be verified before you go any further).
Your adding way to much fuel, thats a good way to wash cylinders. If your fuel trims are inline, & all fuel sliders are reset back to zero, this gives you a stock fuel curve which is on the rich side to start with (typically you remove fuel, not add fuel like youve done). If your knocking that bad with that rich of a tune at 15psi with a stock timing curve you have other issues.
What are you running for an intercooler? Have you done a proper boost leak?
Return the fuel sliders back to zero, if the cars knocking even more then that log, do not make anymore WOT pulls till you get help.
To calibrate your MAF, you use the MAF adjustment screen. Sounds like your running a stock MAF? If so, are you sure your autometer gauge is accurate? Its not uncommon for them not to read dead on, typically they can be 1-2psi out even when new. So your MAF may not be too bad plus it doesn't look like you have a wideband on MAP sensor to log, that will allow you to adjust it properly.
Sounds like the stock IC is probably leading to your knock issue. They don't like much boost over stock. Not sure if its in the budget but a FMIC setup is something you should be looking into.
First things first are your fuel trims good?
If so I would probably pull back boost slightly for the time being. You want to get those fuel sliders back to zero. So set the fuel sliders back to zero & pull back boost a few psi till you stop to knock. At that time you can remove abit extra fuel in the upper rpms as its richer in this area from factory & its less likely to knock. If all is good then up the boost just slightly till you see some knock again. Typically this will be in the 5000-6000rpm range. When this happens you can either pull the boost back abit till it goes away, or what I'd recommend, leave the boost but pull a deg or two of timing in the area you see knock.
Also what type of fuel your running, hopefully the highest octane available in your area?
For fuel trim log LTFT LO & Mid. Get your DSMLink manual out (available on their website to download if you don't have) & start reading through it. There is a section on adjusting for proper fuel injector compensation. This needs to be done BEFORE any tuning is tried.
I am using our best which is 91 octane, and Im using a greddy profec set to boost 50 percent over stock so Im not sure what size wastegate comes with a big 16g but I assume its probably a 10 so 15lbs might be right. I was running at night outside temp was low 60s figured that would help with the intercooler.
Also Ive tried lowering my fuel and boost and Ive had 8 counts of knock through out the rpm with my autometer showing only 14lbs. I was thiinking that since I have oversize valves that I would need more fuel to match increased air.
Forgot to mention Im also using Aem wideband at wide open and full boost Im seeing 11.2 and cruising at 15.6
No you don't need to add additional fuel manually, the MAF measures the actual airflow into the motor, so as flow increases through the motor the MAF will measure this & automatically add more fuel to compensate. This is why your air/fuel ratio curve will basically look the same if you run 15psi or 20psi, obviously at 20psi your motor requires more fuel & the MAF takes care of this automatically.
Do you have your WB logged in DSMLink? (can't check log again currently), if not you should tie it in so it can be logged. (look at the Link site & the wiki, for how to do this). Something is way off with your setup if your adding that much fuel with the sliders & your WB is reading 11.2 to 1, your air/fuel ratio should be in the ~8 to 1 range with sliders like that (to normally see ~11 to 1 think the sliders should be something like -15% in the upper rpms). Your airflow metering is way off, your base fuel pressure is off or your fuel system isn't functioning correctly (what pump are you running? rewired? do you have an AFPR?, etc?) Or your injectors aren't dialed in properly (which is why you need to read the manual & start from the beginning before you try & start tuning.)
stock pump rewired, rc 750s and aeromotive fpr set to factory pressure. If it was truely running that rich wouldnt there be bogging or the smell of fuel or even black smoke between shifts? Its actually running great and smooth and I havent heard knock which have heard on previous cars. What do you mean by calibrate the injectors? I thought we just had to set deadtime and global for injector size?
new pull 3rd gear. Why am I getting knock at 12lbs of boost?
Last edited by chadnum1; 10-20-2009 at 04:32 PM.
Reason: Auto-merged to prevent bumping
Probably because if you were actually seeing ~11 to 1 before, with adding that much fuel with the sliders, now that you've returned the slider back to zero you are too lean.
I see you've added fuel trims to your log but you haven't made any adjustments as their basically maxed. You need to compensate for the larger injectors (not calibrate), yes you do use the global & deadtime setting but yours is obviously not set correctly or your having other fuel delivery issues. Are you sure base fuel pressure is set correctly? (how did you set it & what to?)
Your fuel trims are maxed in the positive direction which means the ecu is trying to add as much fuel as it can to get the car to idle/run under light loads where it should. Before you go doing more WOT pulls & hurt something start from the begining & get your fuel trims inline. Again, download the manual if you don't have a copy & start reading. It has detailed info on exactly what you need to do.
fuel pressure is at 43 psi with line disconnected and o2 sensor is bouncing up and down as it should. I have my dead time at 315 which is what the manual calls for and global at 38 which where that should be. What general area should my fuel trims be at? Even with prolonged driving theres was never much variance between the numbers.
Not to good. First off double check base timing, mechanical timing, set the bliss screw, set idle to 1k, set coast FC to 250, zero out the fuel, simulate the idle switch, adjust tps, and read jeffgst.com. Once all this is done then you should start to calibrate the MAS and once that is done you can start to tune your car. This assumes you have all the supporting mods.
Everything maintanence wise is in check. I checked it with my palm n stein logger and its showing stft at between-4 and +8 at idle and ltft at +12 at idle iks there a setting on dsmlink that Ive missed that would give me the high readings its giving?
Not to good. First off double check base timing, mechanical timing, set the bliss screw, set idle to 1k, set coast FC to 250, zero out the fuel, simulate the idle switch, adjust tps, and read jeffgst.com. Once all this is done then you should start to calibrate the MAS and once that is done you can start to tune your car. This assumes you have all the supporting mods.
Steve
Everything you need is posted above. After you do it post a log. There isn't a reason to be using that palm any longer. Also how did you check mechanical timing with the palm. You should post on the link forum and find somebody local to you that could help you out. I dont think your getting it.
Oh sweet lord. Ok Im not retarded, this is my 8th dsm and all of them were built to one degree or another and Ive never had anything done on these cars that i didnt do myself. My timing is on mechanical wise I check it every 2 weeks or so, same as I check for boost leaks, check fluids and plugs as well as just general inspection of condition of things. BISS is new and adjusted properly, tps is adjusted properly, you cant adjust ignition timing on a 2nd gen. My question was is why is dsmlink showing ltft stft at like 190 and my logger is showing normal fuel trim. I know I dont need the logger anymore but its what was in the car when I was out so I checked my trims so I wanted to know why the variance?
Oh sweet lord. Ok Im not retarded, this is my 8th dsm and all of them were built to one degree or another and Ive never had anything done on these cars that i didnt do myself. My timing is on mechanical wise I check it every 2 weeks or so, same as I check for boost leaks, check fluids and plugs as well as just general inspection of condition of things. BISS is new and adjusted properly, tps is adjusted properly, you cant adjust ignition timing on a 2nd gen. My question was is why is dsmlink showing ltft stft at like 190 and my logger is showing normal fuel trim. I know I dont need the logger anymore but its what was in the car when I was out so I checked my trims so I wanted to know why the variance?
Nobody said you were retarded and obviously it doesn't matter how many modified dsm's you have owned because you still don't get the basics.
In your most recent long you still haven't adjusted the coast FC that i mentioned. If you read jeffgst.com you will know how to properly set up your fuel trims and then you can calibrate your MAS.
The log you posted does tell us anything about your trims. You need to set up your trims, calibrate the MAS, then make a WOT pull.
I have said this 3 times now. You asked for help, now you can do what you want with the info. Its all right there.
My last log has stft and ltft on it and they are maxed out but on my logger there not why the variation? And I dont see anything on link that says coast fc? And furthermore the only thing for fuel trims I see on jeffs page are if you have a maft which I do not so its no help to me.
My last log has stft and ltft on it and they are maxed out but on my logger there not why the variation? And I dont see anything on link that says coast fc? And furthermore the only thing for fuel trims I see on jeffs page are if you have a maft which I do not so its no help to me.
Go to the ECU drop down menu and select RPM. The coast fc value should be the difference between where you have your idle set(1100rpm) and the factory idle(750rpm). So in your case 350.
I just noticed your running a stock pump, that could be a problem.
Its stock now cause I had to smog I have a 255 going back in. It is rewired though and Im only boosting 14lbs. Ive read through Jeffs page numerous times but all Im seeing on the link you sent is how to adjust a rev MAFT?
your car is running hot for 60deg weather outside, 200deg doesnt look good.you sounldnt be knocking with 10deg of timing at 15psi. i would do this, turn boost all the way down...sould be about 7-10psi. then keep your timing set at 9-10deg from 4k-redline and aim for 11.5 a/f's. if your still geting counts then you have a problem, not with your tuning but the sensor its self or your hg..thats what it looks like to me. if the maf isnt dialed its ok, it wont cause knock counts....i would also do a com. check and leak down too. running too rich will also cause counts, check plug gaps and so on....also make sure your knock sens. is on tight. dont add anymore fuel, you dont need to run 11.0 a/fs with your boost.
We are only talking about fuel trims because he wants to know why they are off. To say in one sentence that it doesn't matter if the MAS isn't calibrated then in the next sentence to say being rich will is contradicting yourself. The MAS will make it lean or rich depending on what adjustment are needed. Its best to do it the right way and at-least get it close. I run a 2g mas and it need quite a bit of adjustment to get it correct.
As far as WOT goes i would put the pump in it first. I'm pretty sure your old stock pump cant keep up with the fuel demands of your 16g@ 14psi, even rewired. Get the pump in and make a pull on the spring.
you didnt read what i said, he is running rich at wot.....he also said that he gave it MORE fuel and was running 11.0 a/f's. i didnt contradict myself, you just didnt read it right. he has fuel, the pump wont solve his knock problem. he asked about a wot log, and thats what im helping him with.
wow, your way out in left feild somewhere.....he said that he ADDED fuel and the counts came down. the car wasnt running rich to begin with, i was just letting him know that running to rich CAN cause counts also. i dont dial in my maf on my car and it runs great, im running 24psi and the link shows 30..so what the car drives fine and it makes 600hp. i dont dial in the mafsd and mafcomp, with this guy if he tried to dial in the maf he would still have trouble because he is getting knock with very little boost and timing and after ADDING fuel. even with that said my ltfhi and lo both read zero, even when they were like at ltfhi 5.2 and ltflo -6.3 the car still didnt get knock if my a/f's were in check and timing wasnt too crazy with 20psi of boost. im just saying that even without a dialed maf you sould be able to tune your car at wot.
wow, your way out in left feild somewhere.....he said that he ADDED fuel and the counts came down. the car wasnt running rich to begin with, i was just letting him know that running to rich CAN cause counts also. i dont dial in my maf on my car and it runs great, im running 24psi and the link shows 30..so what the car drives fine and it makes 600hp. i dont dial in the mafsd and mafcomp, with this guy if he tried to dial in the maf he would still have trouble because he is getting knock with very little boost and timing and after ADDING fuel. even with that said my ltfhi and lo both read zero, even when they were like at ltfhi 5.2 and ltflo -6.3 the car still didnt get knock if my a/f's were in check and timing wasnt too crazy with 20psi of boost. im just saying that even without a dialed maf you sould be able to tune your car at wot.
The statement you made was wrong no matter what field you read it from! This isn't about your car so who care how it runs or how much power you think it makes. This is about his car and all cars are different. PS if the link shows 30psi and your running 24psi then your over estimating by20% so if your using the HP estimate in link then your off by 20%. If your referring to the the 2.3 with the s366 its definitely not running 600hp at the boost you mentioned. I just help a friend tune the same setup on 36psi on pump and it ran 142 in the quarter and it might be mid
6XX if he is lucky.
This is the exact reason i don't post much here, you will get much better quality help on the link forum.
did you forget about my thread on my car, it made 565hp at 24psi.... here this might help you remember. bw s366+2.3=fun
i dont think about how much power it makes, i know how much power it makes. ha ha just like you said though not all cars are the same, my car makes 600hp at 27psi. i was just using the 24psi to 30psi as a example, when i made the pull and the car laid down 594hp the link was showing 570hp or so. i have tuned many cars and i know that the maf doesnt need to be dialed in order to run smoothly or to make wot pulls.if you like to use the hp feature then yes, it needs to be dialed in order to get the estimation as close as possible. thats not the case for this guy, everyone is saying dial in the maf but thats not going to fix his knock problem...thats what im trying to say. my first comment were two compleatly different things but you just sumed them up together.his problem is its getting knock counts with 15psi of boost and 10-11deg of timing and low 11 a/f's. how is dialing in the maf going to fix this.
Its stock now cause I had to smog I have a 255 going back in. It is rewired though and Im only boosting 14lbs. Ive read through Jeffs page numerous times but all Im seeing on the link you sent is how to adjust a rev MAFT?
The technique on this page will adjust any MAF whether it be a 1G,2G MAF, or GMAF. It is a simple step by step procedure that you follow. http://www.jeffgst.com/gmafcalibration2.html Pay no attention to the NAME on the address page. It's just an address.
1) Add MAFraw to your captured values
2) Add 12% to your 50Hz slider from where you are currently at
3) Add 11% to your 150Hz slider from where you are currently at
4) Check base timing and tell me where it is currently set at.
You should post on the link forum and find somebody local to you that could help you out. I dont think your getting it.
You asked for help, now you can do what you want with the info. Its all right there.
