Datalog : evoIII 16g | 190lph | 450cc | no AFC

[DSMvroom]

For everyone's reference, I got my 190lph installed today and took some 'pictures'

It was a bit tough to slow down enough to be at ~3k in 3rd due to traffic density. Pasted below is a snippit of one of the logs. Sample rate was only around 16/s so increments aren't as ideal as possible, but it will do for now to give an idea of how the car is running.

Background:
Mods are in the profile. MBC is set currently at ~13psi, which the car hits at just about 3k if not a little before. At WOT, the boost creeps tremendously to 19psi right after it hovers at 13psi for a moment. After around 5500rpm, it starts creeping some more but much more slowly. In the log below, the boost is just about 20-21psi when I let off the accelerator. As you all can see, it's running a bit lean

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AFC up next, then some PTE 550s . . . first I need some money

 

[CanadianTSi]

Looks good to me.

 

[DSMvroom]

Finally got a better one. Replaced o2 with Airflow this time since we pretty much know what the o2 values are at this point.

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Boost was at 20psi when I let off. Looks like it was flowing ~32lb/min at that point, which I'm more than satisfied with. I've seen plenty of others get better results than that, but I can't complain

In other news . . . looks like I really should get around to fixing that TPS

 

[spyderturbo007]

Your TPS is fine and I wouldn't worry about it.

As for the log, it's pretty much perfect. Although the ECU outputs airflow in lbs/min to the OBD-II port, that's not what the ECU uses to calculate timing advance. It actually uses grams/revolution to determine timing advance, along with things like knock, coolant temp, IAT temp, etc.

Anyway, according to my calculation, you are pushing 2.22g/rev of airflow at your peak of 31.95lbs/min. Anything over 2.1g/rev the ECU caps timing at 16 degrees on a 2g. So......We know that you are flowing over the ECU's airflow cap so the ECU's target timing is 16 degrees. You are hitting 15 degrees which is almost perfect.

Now we need to find out what happened to that one degree. I'm going to assume that it's not knock, since there are no timing pulls after your initial timing dip. So it's most likely that your coolant temp went over 203 degrees or your IAT went over 84 degrees.

Either way, the log is exactly where you want to be!!!!

 

[DSMvroom]

I agree with the timing cap, which I was aware of. Still, it looks lean to me because of the o2 sitting at .94

Additionally, (maybe someone can interject here) I don't have any reason to believe that the ECU will retard timing for a few counts of knock. My guess is that a few knocks here and there will only slow or halt its advance, and a significant amount would then retard. So in my situation there could be some knock across the board, but only enough to slow the advance in timing. All this of course is pure speculation on my part; I really have no clue what I'm talking about.

Lastly, I can only presume based on looking at others' logs and experiences that my 450s were well over 100%IDC and not supplying enough fuel. This of course could be partly responsible for the .94v.

In any case, hopefully these logs will serve as food for thought for those that are researching; I'll add myself to whatever 'demographic' I fit in!

 

[DSMvroom]

190lph / PTE 550s / I tried tuning a little . . . .

It looks like I need to
add fuel:
3500 - 4500, >6200

subtract fuel:
4800 - 6000

Does anyone else agree with that? Currently the sAFC is set at approximately -22 across the hi-throttle range. Thanks for the input.

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  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>11</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>28.78</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5547</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>11</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>29.04</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5535</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>11</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>29.29</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5625</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>12</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>29.54</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5707</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>12</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>29.8</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5785</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>12</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>30.06</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5824</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>12</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>30.53</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5879</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>13</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>30.78</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>5949</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>13</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>31.03</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>6043</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>31.29</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>6043</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>31.78</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>6152</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>32.03</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>6215</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.94</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>32.28</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>6281</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.94</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>32.54</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>6301</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.94</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>32.79</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>6367</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.94</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>33.04</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>6441</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>27.5</td>
  <td class=xl24 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.78</td>
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 <![if supportMisalignedColumns]>
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  <td width=64 style='width:48pt'></td>
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</table>

 

[notsofastdsm55]

Actually your logs look better than mine! recently I have been a little lazy to take my chip out and reburn it, thats alright cause I am running a little rich(better than lean) I get some knock but I have a 1g and we have really aggressive timing maps compared to a 2g. all in all your logs look good, from the 3500-4500 region if your not knocking then I would only add a little fuel as a this will kinda kill your spool when in higher gears, leaner equals higher egt's so faster spool up due to the gases expanding faster,(and by higher gears I mean like 4th gear on the highway and you don't want to downshift) but yeah you pretty much have the right idea! good job man

 

[2gGSX]

IIRC .94 is actually on the rich side of things. Refer to: http://www.plxdevices.com/AppNotes/PLXApp004.pdf for a graph, but basically it's a y=-x equation.

It's hard to tune with just O2 values since you have no idea what they actually are--if at all possible, try to get access to a wideband and something to log it with.

 

[DSMvroom]

More tuning; I'm getting better. I'm shooting for .96 for now just to smooth out the timing curve better, then I'll start leaning it out slowly. It is clear how awkward it is right now becuase of the seemingly too fast drop in timing, a premature rise in timing, and a premature peak of 16 degrees. I am much happier now though, since I am hitting 16 degrees advance.

If flow rate hasn't changed much, I should be doing about 32lbs/min at ~6k. Boost is set to 16psi and creeps to ~21psi at redline.

Below is a 2nd gear pull, after tuning through a dozen or so different pulls. I couldn't get a good 3rd gear pull today, too much traffic and popo.

<table x:str border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=256 style='border-collapse:
 collapse;table-layout:fixed;width:192pt'>
 <col width=64 span=4 style='width:48pt'>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2223750 width=64 style='height:12.75pt;width:48pt'>rpm</td>
  <td class=xl2223750 width=64 style='width:48pt'>timing</td>
  <td class=xl2223750 width=64 style='width:48pt'>tps</td>

  <td class=xl2223750 width=64 style='width:48pt'>o2</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>2348</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>27</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>17.29</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.56</td>

 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>2410</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.88</td>
 </tr>

 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>2645</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>19</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.88</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>

  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>2785</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>15</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.88</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>2930</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.88</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>3086</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>13</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.88</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>3480</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>9</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.92</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>3680</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>7</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.92</td>

 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>3871</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>8</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.92</td>
 </tr>

 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>4066</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>10</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.92</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>

  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>4285</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>10</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.94</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>4648</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>11</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.94</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>4855</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>9</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>4992</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>11</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>5141</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>11</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>

 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>5262</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>12</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>

 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>5406</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>12</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>

  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>5563</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>13</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>5695</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>13</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>5828</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>14</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>5984</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>15</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>6113</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>16</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>

 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>6238</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>16</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>

 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>6352</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>16</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.96</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>

  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>6492</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>16</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.94</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>6613</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>16</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.94</td>
 </tr>
 <tr height=17 style='height:12.75pt'>
  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>6719</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>16</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>100.2</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.94</td>
 </tr>
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  <td height=17 class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='height:12.75pt;
  width:48pt' x:num>6359</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>38</td>
  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0</td>

  <td class=xl2323750 align=right width=64 style='width:48pt' x:num>0.78</td>
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  <td width=64 style='width:48pt'></td>
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</table>

I anticipate I will be satisfied with the tune sometime next week, at which point I will summarize my tuning endevour while making sure to include my settings. All hardware will of course be in the profile. In any case, If things go well, I expect that I will be taking another trip to MachV fairly soon . . . only this time it's for a dyno pull

 

[2gGSX]

Your timing curve looks fine, except for that dip which seems to sort itself out and go away. The sudden drop in timing is normal.

If you can, get a wideband hooked up when you go to dyno and try to tune it to an actual AFR.

 

[DSMvroom]

Your timing curve looks fine, except for that dip which seems to sort itself out and go away. The sudden drop in timing is normal.

If you can, get a wideband hooked up when you go to dyno and try to tune it to an actual AFR.

Thanks for the input. I do expect the drop in timing, but it seems like it dropped slightly too fast. I expected the bottom of the slope to be at just around 4k or a little before, based on all my previous experience (what little I have).

The timing curve doesn't look bad in the log I posted, but it isn't proper. I have graphs and graphs of timing curves and there is a lot of smoothing that can go on in this most recent one. It obviously shouldn't be rising and then dropping again. A proper curve will bottom out, and have a smooth increase all the way to redline. Mine seems to peak too early as well. I am shooting to have it peak at around 6.5k

All this rain needs to go away, else I won't get any more progress completed. When I do go to the dyno, how is a wideband hooked up exactly? I recall my last trip that they hooked up a wire to the #1 plug wire, and stuck something in the tailpipe . . .

 

[2gGSX]

What you described sounds like the usual procedure, however they should know how their own equipment works (especially MachV).

If you interpolate the above data, that sudden dip corresponds to a timing retardation of ~2 degrees, but then immediately fixes itself within 200 RPM (fractions of a second). I would not stress yourself over this.

In regards to your timing curve dipping too late or rising too early, based on the stock 2g timing table, this behavior is perfectly normal. Your timing should dip right after your turbo spools (sudden rise in g/rev), so it will vary between setups. In fact, after checking some logs from my old Evo 3 setup, my timing drops to 5.2 degrees advance at 3500, which is very similar to what you are experiencing. The fact that your timing leveled out at 16 degrees advance after 6000 RPM is also correct, since the stock 2g timing table maxes out at 16 degrees at 6000 RPM. The only way you would experience something lower is if you had high coolant temps (greater than 206 degrees) or low coolant temps (less than..156? I forgot).

 

[DSMvroom]

Thanks again for all the feedback. With more info at hand, I have a few more logs to post.
I'm going to the dyno this Friday and am hoping for good results. All mods are in the profile:


Airflow: (35.56 lbs/min!!!)
I'm still trying to tune out a strange hesitation at ~5600 and ~6400

<table>						
<tr><th>	rpm	</th><th>	rpm	</th><th>	lbs/min	</th></tr>
<tr><td>	3137	</td><td>	15	</td><td>	7.09	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3305	</td><td>	12	</td><td>	10.8	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3512	</td><td>	9	</td><td>	14.72	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3754	</td><td>	5	</td><td>	18.53	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3996	</td><td>	7	</td><td>	18.57	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4219	</td><td>	9	</td><td>	20.14	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4430	</td><td>	8	</td><td>	22.06	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4727	</td><td>	9	</td><td>	22.81	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4941	</td><td>	10	</td><td>	23.41	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5148	</td><td>	11	</td><td>	26.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5617	</td><td>	14	</td><td>	22.91	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5578	</td><td>	15	</td><td>	28.16	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	6000	</td><td>	14	</td><td>	32.59	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	6234	</td><td>	16	</td><td>	34.16	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	6426	</td><td>	16	</td><td>	32.61	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	6598	</td><td>	16	</td><td>	35.23	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	6762	</td><td>	16	</td><td>	35.56	</td></tr>
</table>

<p>Timing:

<table>						
<tr><th>	rpm	</th><th>	tim	</th><th>	o2	</th></tr>
<tr><td>	2992	</td><td>	23	</td><td>	0.88	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3109	</td><td>	19	</td><td>	0.88	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3164	</td><td>	13	</td><td>	0.9	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3234	</td><td>	9	</td><td>	0.92	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3324	</td><td>	5	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3461	</td><td>	5	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3488	</td><td>	5	</td><td>	0.92	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3625	</td><td>	5	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3711	</td><td>	6	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3848	</td><td>	7	</td><td>	0.92	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	3898	</td><td>	7	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4047	</td><td>	8	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4082	</td><td>	8	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4203	</td><td>	8	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4289	</td><td>	8	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4363	</td><td>	9	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4500	</td><td>	9	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4543	</td><td>	9	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4656	</td><td>	9	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4734	</td><td>	10	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4867	</td><td>	10	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	4941	</td><td>	11	</td><td>	0.92	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5137	</td><td>	11	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5219	</td><td>	13	</td><td>	0.92	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5344	</td><td>	14	</td><td>	0.92	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5398	</td><td>	13	</td><td>	0.92	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5563	</td><td>	13	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5668	</td><td>	14	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5770	</td><td>	14	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5852	</td><td>	14	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	5930	</td><td>	14	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	6039	</td><td>	15	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	6098	</td><td>	15	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
<tr><td>	6254	</td><td>	15	</td><td>	0.94	</td></tr>
</table>

 

[2gGSX]

What was your SAFC setting at? If those airflow numbers are straight out of the ECU, then you didn't factor in the SAFC correction--your airflow is actually in the mid 40 lbs/min range then.

Again, your logs for the most part look fine, although it does look like you have some knock between 5000-6000, but not enough to worry about.

 

[DSMvroom]

What was your SAFC setting at? If those airflow numbers are straight out of the ECU, then you didn't factor in the SAFC correction--your airflow is actually in the mid 40 lbs/min range then.

Again, your logs for the most part look fine, although it does look like you have some knock between 5000-6000, but not enough to worry about.

I'll copy the settings down tomorrow and fill them in here, but I think it is at -23 or -24 at some points. The airflow rate is straight out of my palm pilot. I'm using DigitalTuning's Pocketlogger software. I always took the values as 'unmolested,' especially now since I would find it hard to believe that an evoIII (or at least one in my car) is flowing 40lbs/min.

 

[2gGSX]

Hit the dyno and see if your measured horsepower correlates to your airflow, or get a log of time vs. speed and do a third gear pull from 2500 RPM to a little past redline (90 mph). Calculate your 70-90 mph and you can use that to see if you're in the right ballpark as well.

 

[DSMvroom]

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I'm thinking of changing 5500 and 6250 to -25 and -23 respectively as an effort to keep tuning out that strange hesitation at those points. I will log the results of course and make any adjustments based on them.

I will be going to the dyno on Friday so it really needs to be ironed out by then.

 

[DSMvroom]

Just got back from the dyno. I'll post the graph when I am able to. I think it could have been better but the hesitation I am still fighting is causing a serious drop in numbers, as you will see when I get the chart up.

244.7 ft/lbs @ 5250
244.7 whp @ 5250

 

[Artago]

Just got back from the dyno. I'll post the graph when I am able to. I think it could have been better but the hesitation I am still fighting is causing a serious drop in numbers, as you will see when I get the chart up.

244.7 ft/lbs @ 5250
244.7 whp @ 5250

Identical WHP and Torque???? What boost did you run on the dyno? Using APEX'i SAFC to tune it?

 

[matthewdesigns]

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I'm thinking of changing 5500 and 6250 to -25 and -23 respectively as an effort to keep tuning out that strange hesitation at those points. I will log the results of course and make any adjustments based on them.

I will be going to the dyno on Friday so it really needs to be ironed out by then.

Nice dyno numbers today. Congrats!

I have basically the same setup (E3/550's/rewired 190/SAFC1), yet the corrections in my SAFC1 are a long way from yours. I'm starting at -15 at the bottom end, and by the time I'm at 6K, I'm only at -1. I know that every setup is different, but that's a HUGE gap between our corrections. My timing curve looks basically identical to yours, and I'm flowing ~32lbs corrected at 20-21psi (from 4K-6.5K...no creep like you are getting).

I don't understand how you are pulling fuel when your turbo starts to come on. I have to add fuel dramatically at that point, or I knock like mad. Are the adjustments on the Neo read differently than earlier afc's? I'm sooo confused.

 

[DSMvroom]

Run 1 : 240whp
Run 2 : 244whp
Run 3 : 237whp

This was run 2.

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It looks like the strange hesitation I was referring to earlier happens right at 5250, but it I need to figure it out and get rid of it because I am positive this exact tune can actually throw down more than 244whp.

 

[spyderturbo007]

There is something here that's confusing me, but I can't seem to put my finger on it. By your logger data, you're running 35.56 lbs/min. Using the SAFC correction factor at the 6750 Ne Point of -22%, you're actually flowing 45.59 lbs/min.

Two things strike me as odd here.....

#1. You're flowing 45.6 lbs/min on the EVO III 16g.

#2. You only put down 244WHP at 45.6 lbs/min of airflow.

#3. There is no way that your 550cc injectors are supplying enough fuel for that airflow.

I was pushing about 29 lbs/min at 17psi on the EVO III 16g, running the stock cat back and UICP when I put down the numbers in my profile. (Which I just noticed seemed to have disappeared) It was 242.5WHP if I remember correctly. Hummm....I wonder where they went.

Something weird is going on here......

 

[2gGSX]

MAS is on the fritz or a base fuel pressure issue would be my first two guesses.

 

[DSMvroom]

There is something here that's confusing me, but I can't seem to put my finger on it. By your logger data, you're running 35.56 lbs/min. Using the SAFC correction factor at the 6750 Ne Point of -22%, you're actually flowing 45.59 lbs/min.

Two things strike me as odd here.....

#1. You're flowing 45.6 lbs/min on the EVO III 16g.

#2. You only put down 244WHP at 45.6 lbs/min of airflow.

#3. There is no way that your 550cc injectors are supplying enough fuel for that airflow.

I was pushing about 29 lbs/min at 17psi on the EVO III 16g, running the stock cat back and UICP when I put down the numbers in my profile. (Which I just noticed seemed to have disappeared) It was 242.5WHP if I remember correctly. Hummm....I wonder where they went.

Something weird is going on here......

Well, I honestly don't think I am flowing 45lbs/min. When I first installed the evoIII I did a log for airflow and the results are here:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/236625-log-evoiii-16g-no-fuel.html

It was 31lbs/min at 6600rpm, without an AFC installed. I really think the readout on the pocketlogger is accurate and untampered by the AFC.

Plus, at 35lbs/min and using the arguable and rough calculation of 10hp per lb/min of air: the motor *could* be 350hp, so a 244whp reading on a mustang dyno is plausible; especially since there is a strange drop at 5250rpm

I do think something is wrong because it shouldn't just drop off after 5250. I expect it should have kept climbing upwards of ~260whp

 

[2gGSX]

On second glance, that peak torque reading ALMOST looks like it was a spike. If you ignore the data just after 4500 RPM until right after the spike, it looks like it would make a normal curve in between (where the spike is now).

The pocketlogger is supposed to read what the ECU sees.