Good bye lag?

[ILiveForBoost]

So of course I cant imagine i'm the only one who would like to have a massive turbo daily driven dsm without having to sacrifice the low end response, so... Lets hear some input on adding a eaton m45 supercharger (bypassed at 20+ psi) and for a turbo a holset HE351VE VGT with a upgraded 64mm wheel (rated at roughly 80 lbs/min i think?). Yes I do realize this may be a tad bit of custom work both physical and electronics, regardless what are some thoughts?!

 

[AllShallPerish]

Twincharged 2.3 stroker M62 Eaton and a GT35R!!! - YouTube


Its been done.

 

[ILiveForBoost]

Yes the twincharged part has been done, but id like to go so far as to ad in a Variable Geometry Turbo that is supposed to be able to spool insanely fast on its own let alone in combination with the twincharged setup. I do understand Peter has added the eaton, and that Aero has used the VGT turbo, my question is how would BOTH of these things perform together?

 

[jpmxrider489]

Thats crazy. I never heard of anyone doing that till now. I thought people pushed the envelope with compound turbos and now this!

 

[bastarddsm]

That's gonna be one complicated setup. My question is what are you going to do with all that extra bottom end torque? All your gonna do is explode transmissions. Furthermore, slamming the engine with 30psi at 1500 rpm, is not gonna be good for it. Rays twin charger setup is probably the best setup, for a comprimse of realiability, overall power, and off idle response.

These cars don't have big blocks in them, quit trying to make them act like it.

 

[Lofty]

More boost in lower rpms is actually probably healthier, why do you think diesels last forever? High boost, low rpms. I would not tell someone to not try something new, no cool shit happens then.

 

[sag1441]

except his 4g63 is still going to be revving over 3k rpms. more boost is never going to be healthier. diesels can last a lot longer for many reasons, much lower rpms, less complicated head, built MUCH stronger in the first place for the high heat and pressures it sees, maybe the fuel being more oil based etc...


if you got the means then go for it, twincharging has been around forever its just not very practical.

 

[2GJeremy]

Go for it, after all it's all about what YOU want to do. What the critics decide to say about it is a bunch of bull.

 

[ed1380]

More boost in lower rpms is actually probably healthier, why do you think diesels last forever? High boost, low rpms. I would not tell someone to not try something new, no cool shit happens then.

Under 2k you don't have full oil pressure, so if you add too much boost the cylinder pressure will push the rod through the oil film and soon you'll spin a bearing.

 

[Lofty]

More boost is never healthier, no. In retrospect id rather have a suprrcharged motor than a turbo one for reliability.
Im sure theres workaround to oiling issue. No idea. The diesel thing was an analogy, not a word for word comparison. Lower revs ultimately is what saves motors though.

 

[ILiveForBoost]

I do understand how complicated this set up will be but still feel the need to give it a shot, if it works out the way I think it will then all the better. I have a electrical engineer taking care of the supercharger bypass system that will be running a 2010 GM electronic throttle body, and the board will also be able to control the vanes on the VGT turbo. Again the goal here is to have a larger 80 lbs/min or more turbo spooling more like a 16g with awesome response and near instant boost recovery during shifts. Id just really like to have that much air flow and enjoyable street manners, why not try and have a 4g63 act like a big block?

 

[floader]

The mad scientist in me says get it done... The realist says the wheel has already been invented. Good luck

 

[bastarddsm]

More boost in lower rpms is actually probably healthier, why do you think diesels last forever? High boost, low rpms. I would not tell someone to not try something new, no cool shit happens then.

Lol. That is soooo wrong, in everyway possible.

An average diesel has clsoe to twice the stroke to bore ratio we have, they also have probably 3 times the bearing surface area we do. Not to mention the diesel fuel is a lubricant.

THEY ALSO HAVE TRANSMISSIONS THAT DO EXPLODE AT 500FT*LBS OF TORQUE.

He's really not trying something new, it's already been done. Ray's car is as far as it needs to go, we know what the limits of the 4g are, and we can get there already, without a VGT turbo feeding a blower.

 

[Lofty]

Haha, I guess I should work on my diesel knowledge a little bit more.

 

[EGLTAWLN]

i say go for it. research old lancia s-4 twincharge setup. check out twincharge videos on youtube.
raypeters setup was damn near bullitproof. he removed it to sell it in working order i think...
i plan on doing it this summer. finding a good supercharger is the trickest part. turbos are a lot more common to find than a supercharger it seems. and a junkyard turbo is $50 while the supercharger is $200.
so this is where i am stuck right now. getting my hands on a good priced supercharger than doesn't flow too much.
the 4agze supercharger is probably what i will be going with. or a mercedes kompressor.
the new VW tsi has twin charging. seems like it could be the wave of the future, and i'd like to be on par with my old dsm.

 

[TSIAWDTalon]

There is a company that used to make twin-charged kits for the Cobalt SS and the Ion Redline. They eventually moved to single turbo though, if that tells you anything.

 

[ILiveForBoost]

I think a lot of people are only seeing the first part of the scenario here (wich is the twincharging part) and debating if that is worth it or not while mostly overlooking the VGT turbo idea. I actually have the m45 supercharger already installed, which came off of a mercedes slk230, and I can say that it has been my favorite mod to the car so far, since i was unhappy with the lag I was getting from my pte5557. The m45 pretty much took care of my lag issues so I decided to look into a larger turbo yet but still not wanting to add lag I decided to consider the HE351VE. Iv already purchased a used one so its only a matter of time before I somehow get this massive beast installed, and getting the electronics figured out to control the vanes is probably one of the biggest things that will hold it up i think. So I guess I was just curious to see what people thought about trying these two rarely used ideas in combination with each other more so than if either of them are worth it or not. To sum it up, I will be attempting it regardless of some people not thinking its practical, or able to reach the most HP per dollar, or time spent customizing and fabricating. I only figured id share some of my crazy ideas and get other peoples thoughts and opinions on them, never know when someone else may have tried similar theories out and learn about those as well. Thanks for reading and I look forward to hearing all the thoughts from everyone!

 

[ILiveForBoost]

Figured I would post up a little video of some progress on the bypass system for my twincharged Talon. Going a lot slower than I wanted it to but here is a link to a video showing a few random revs with the car bypass disabled, and another video showing the bypass working based off of throttle position. Hope to get to the vgt turbo part on soon enough, all in good time I suppose.

Free Revving, no bypass yet:
Twincharged DSM Free Rev - YouTube

Throttle controlling electronic bypass:
Twincharged DSM Electronic Bypass - YouTube

 

[fosforito95]

that looks sick

 

[rlacasse1]

Like this:

The World's Fastest Lotus? - YouTube

 

[brian9397gsx]

Can you post up pictures for some reason i cant watch the videos.

 

[ILiveForBoost]

Here are a few pictures of the supercharger mounted to a spare block. We used the factory 2g AC compressor bracket and belt tensioner.

Here are a few shots of the supercharger adapter plate that I made to attach the supercharger to the 2g AC compressor bracket. I used a factory timing belt idler pulley to improve the belt coverage on the supercharger pulley.

Then some shots of it mounted.

And a few showing the supercharger manifold.

 

[TAL0NTSi]

That looks awesome!

 

[91stocker]

Wow, a thread where talk turns into action

Looking good.

 

[brian9397gsx]

Looks good. Hows it drive? And when can we see a dyno graph?