H&R Race Springs Streetability?

[jake98gst]

I'm thinking about buying a set of these. I'm wondering if they are too low...2.0"F and 1.75"R. Is that unstreetable in your eyes? Any comments from those who have them on harshness, bounciness, or any other comments. Anyone or anyone who knows someone with experience with these please reply.

Thanks for your help,
Jake

 

[13secGST]

check my gallery.

I have H&R Race and Tokico Blues

If you are in it for looks, they look great. If you are in it for performance, NO spring/shock combo will work good for a 2g and have a nice low ride hieght. We need coilovers to do that, because otherwise, we hit the bump stops.

The ride is pretty stiff and bouncy but that is mainly because they hit the bump stops. But then again, they feel much better than stock to me...much stiffer and stable.

Also keep in mind, my ride hieght is a little higher due to my 245/45/17 tires...when they should be 245/40/17s but they didn't come in that size. The fender gap is still very similar though.

 

[jake98gst]

Would hitting the bump stops all the time be bad for the car at all? The main thing I'm worried about is scraping...Is that so much of a problem to where you have to aviod the interstate or other things like that?

Overall, would you recommend them to a daily driver?

How would you (or anyone) compare them to Eibach Sportlines? Anyone with Eibach Sportlines please post comments.

Thanks,
Jake

 

[13secGST]

No...hitting the bump stop doesn't cause any mechanical problems...but it does cause understeer. Avoid the interstate (freeway) no way...the freeway is probably the best place to drive since it has minimal bumps and is just flat. Bumpy roads are bad. Scraping is a problem...but if you take those areas at an angle, you can avoid it...just go slow.

My car is a daily driver...and they are fine...I don't really notice the bumpstops soo much, as Mike @ DSS (basically a suspension enthusiast) does...he really notices it...to me its just a side-effect of ANY lowered car on ANY lowering springs.
I have no experiance with sportlines, but they were what I was going to get...but I found the H&Rs for like 100 on DSMTrader and couldn't pass them up.

The only way you can get a good handling car (without understeer and not hitting the bumpstops) is by getting a full coilover system like Tien or JIC. But I believe that in MOST turns the car does handle better with the H&Rs...its just right when you get near the limit, they compress too much, your hit the bump stop, you don't really turn. 80-90% of the time...I like them.

 

[Brett95GST]

Can't you just trim the bumpstops so they don't hit it?

 

[jake98gst]

Thanks, 13sec...Looks like I got my mind made up now. (BTW your car is hot! Nice job with it. )Comments on the sportlines are welcome. Otherwise I'm getting the H&R's. If you guys see any good deals. Let me know.

Thanks,
Jake

 

[jtmcinder]

Whether or not you hit the bump-stops depends on how much travel you have. It has nothing to do with whether you have coil-overs or lowering springs.

How much travel you have depends on how long the shock body is and how low the bump-stop is.

You can get shorter or shortened shocks and increase travel. Best example is the Koni Yellow for 2Gs, which are 3/4" shorter than OE.

You can move the bump-stop up by replacing the shock-mounting plate with one that is flatter than OE, such as the plate from Ground Control.

Sure, you can shorten the bump-stops - most people do - but keep in mind that this removes some safety margin. Slamming the top of the shock into something hard is not good for it. (Nor is it good for handling.) Lowered 2Gs, for example, can bend shock shafts when standard cylindrical bushings are used (rather than pillow-balls), due to the side-force on the shaft, due to the funky twin ball-joint design of the suspension.

Upshot: the thing to focus on is suspension travel. If you want to lower your car, get shorter shocks and/or flatter mounting plates. Anything else is all show and no go.

- Jtoby

 

[jake98gst]

So the only reason I would shorten my bump stops would be to eliminate understeer? Otherwise I would be fine as a daily driver with them?

Also, how short are Tokico Illuminas compared to stock shocks? Do they have enough travel for my situation?

Thanks,
Jake

 

[Brett95GST]

Originally posted by jtmcinder
Whether or not you hit the bump-stops depends on how much travel you have. It has nothing to do with whether you have coil-overs or lowering springs.

How much travel you have depends on how long the shock body is and how low the bump-stop is.

You can get shorter or shortened shocks and increase travel. Best example is the Koni Yellow for 2Gs, which are 3/4" shorter than OE.

You can move the bump-stop up by replacing the shock-mounting plate with one that is flatter than OE, such as the plate from Ground Control.

Sure, you can shorten the bump-stops - most people do - but keep in mind that this removes some safety margin. Slamming the top of the shock into something hard is not good for it. (Nor is it good for handling.) Lowered 2Gs, for example, can bend shock shafts when standard cylindrical bushings are used (rather than pillow-balls), due to the side-force on the shaft, due to the funky twin ball-joint design of the suspension.

Upshot: the thing to focus on is suspension travel. If you want to lower your car, get shorter shocks and/or flatter mounting plates. Anything else is all show and no go.

- Jtoby

Very good post, now if only I knew what half of the stuff you said meant

Where can you buy these GC mounting plates? I may have to look into getting some.

 

[jake98gst]

...contact GC. I'd email them.

 

[jtmcinder]

First, a picture:

 

[jtmcinder]

Now the explanation.

What you're looking at are JIC FLT-A2s, Koni SAs, Tokiko Illuminas, and AGXs. Starting with the three on the right, notice that the Konis are the shortest. This means that you have the most available travel with these, which is why they are the best off-the-shelf option for anyone who wants to lower the car. You will have more drop before the top of the shock-body hits the bump-stop.

On the left is the JIC. Notice two things. First, the shock-body is very short and the mounting cap on the bottom is adjustable. This is great. Second, however, because these are real coil-overs, the spring hat mounts to the shock shaft. This eliminates any side-force on the shock that can bend the shaft (which is good), but it also takes away from available travel, because it effectively lowers the first thing that the top of the shock-body will hit when the car is lowered and/or hits a bump. As it turns out, the maximum available travel for JICs and Koni SAs is about the same.

- Jtoby

 

[jake98gst]

Thanks for the help jtm (and 13sec). I always appreciate a man who know his shit.

Jake

 

[13secGST]

hehe...yeh.

Ok, I didn't really go into it...but what I was meaning JTM, is that you can have a nice lowered look without shorting the travel with full coilovers...I realize that you can still hit the bump stops with coilovers, but most don't, normally because the spring rates are stiffer. But mainly, the thing about JICs and Tiens is that you can't adjust the travel, you actually adjust the mounting cap on the bottom to adjust ride height...your travel doesn't change. You can drop your car 3" or 1" (from stock) and still retain the same amount of travel.

I know I also didn't say this, but I know that the travel for both JICs and Tiens really isn't much...and it is less than stock...on a set of Tiens that I saw...it appeared there was only 3" with the bump stop installed...and this was off the car but my guess was that the spring rates a much stiffer which don't allow the spring to compress much, so it really doesn't need much travel. The stiff spring will stop the shock from compressing enough to not hit the bump stop.

But yeh...if you have any more questions jake...just ask. I really didn't feel like going into why coilovers were better, you weren't asking about them. But JTM did a lot of the work for me

 

[my95tsi]

Man i have a hard time not bottoming out on my H&R sport springs but the race's would be worse.

 

[boosted98gst]

i have a H&R race springs with Tokico Illumina's on my 98 gst and they ride like an S-2000 in my opinion.... they havea lil' bounce to them like the S does but then can be annoying when you get into reallly rough conditions. They look great (not to be bragging or anything). but i alwayus get complements. they do ride stiff but they also handle great. if u have ever ridden in an s2000 u know wut im talkin about. good luck wiht wutever you decide to get.

Phil

 

[jake98gst]

Originally posted by boosted98gst
...they havea lil' bounce to them like the S does but then can be annoying when you get into reallly rough conditions...

What do mean by annoying? Scraping or bottoming out? What do you mean by rough conditions?

Thanks,
Jake

 

[boosted98gst]

well it is annoying to me but, wut i was trying to say is just that is has the sporty lil stiff bounce like the s2000, and rough conditions i mean like driving through dowtown houston where there is construction.... basically if you live in an area where the roads are in bad condition or there is alot of construction, i would not buy the springs. and if u do i would definately have to go with teh koni yellows, i had to settle because i couldnt come up wiht the money quick enough and i was forced to buy shocks by my parents. if you are really worried about the ride and bottoming out alot i would go with the H&R sport springs or the eibach pro kit... they would ride very nice... a friend of mine has teh h&R sport's on his e-class benz and it rides so smooth. hope this answered ur question... and sorry if it didnt ... will try to explain better if it didnt .... bottoming out and scraping arent a problem in most cases... where i live there are very tall peed bumps that u have to angle over, but if u take them at a slow speed they are no problem and the only thing i ever scrape is my exhaust piping.. i have the hks hiper and the piping runs really close to the ground, but this only happens when i hit bumps really hard or really fast.... and the handling in my opinion is great, wiht good tires you always keep traction.

 

[jake98gst]

Cool. Thanks for the info. That answers my questions. Got any pics of your car?

 

[boosted98gst]

no problem... i have pics but i dont konw how to post up a link... how sad is that... i suck at computers.... but here are directions to the pics....

go to www.houston-imports.com/forums, then click on houston metropolitan area, then click on the woodlands sub forum... then find the thread " m-coupes 11/29 woodlands meet pics.... my car is teh first silver eclipse you see... tell me wut u think

 

[boosted98gst]

well jsut try this first before you do all that maybe this will work...

http://www.houston-imports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53782

 

[my95tsi]

I was going to get the race srings but i live in chicago and i have a hard enough time as is. I think the race's look sweet but i love my sports. As to riding like an s2000. i don't think a dsm will ever handle as good as that car or feel like that car. I have 2 buddy's of mine that owm them and those cars are amazing. They aren't that fast but they can handle like nobody's business. Plus the ride really isn't that bad it's actually better than my car. They're roadrace cars what do you expect?

Originally posted by boosted98gst
i have a H&R race springs with Tokico Illumina's on my 98 gst and they ride like an S-2000 in my opinion.... they havea lil' bounce to them like the S does but then can be annoying when you get into reallly rough conditions. They look great (not to be bragging or anything). but i alwayus get complements. they do ride stiff but they also handle great. if u have ever ridden in an s2000 u know wut im talkin about. good luck wiht wutever you decide to get.

Phil

 

[boosted98gst]

yea my friend has neuspeed sport springs on his s2000, and where we live it can get a lil bouncy ( but it is a stiff bounce not loose at all), but those cars handle like nothin else.... i do agree wiht you on that... the only reason y i brought up teh s2000 thing is cuz where i live the roads are smooth, yet they still have a lil uneveness to them and the way my dsm rides reminds me of my friends s2000 thats all i was tryin to say.