1G 1g AWD Sway Bar on a 1g FWD?

[habitatguy187]

I was reading the upgrade paths and was looking at the autoX setup. (I know nothing about suspension) Anyway it says that the awd front swaybar is sufficient, but not the fwd front sway bar.

So my question is, can I put the front sway bar from an awd onto my fwd?

My eventual goal here is to make my car handle close to an evo 8, I've driven many, and love the way they handle. So any other helpful advice is greatly appreciated.

BTW: I want to do the cheapest/easiest upgrades first, as I'm still trying to build the rest of the car. Thanks guys.

 

[tsiboosted]

I know you said you wanted the "easiest/cheapest" upgrades first. But if you are going to be changing your sway bars, you might as well go with the RM sway bar kits. They can be had for around $249.00 The front bar takes it to 20.6mm which is 40% stiffer than the OEM 19mm bar. The rear RM bar is 17.5mm instead of the 13mm OEM bar. Which works out to be about 80% stiffer than the factory ones. I hope this helps some.

Woops, I just noticed I gave you specs for the 2G bars. I will see if I can dig up the 1G stuff.

Edit for the 1G stuff....

For the rear, a fat 15/16" rear sway bar bolts up in place of the skinny stock one, and polyurethane swaybar bushings (front AND rear) help both sway bars do their jobs. In the front, there is another 15/16" bar to give even more roll stiffness.

Both bars for will give you a balanced and flat cornering stance that is miles from the stock wallowing cornering bahavior.

You can go with the rear bar only for cars who wanted a better handling balance at a moderate price point, and both bars if you want flat cornering.

All I could find is AWD specs though so I am not 100% sure that they would fit on the FWD. I wouldnt see whay not though.

 

[97eclipseNT]

I'm pretty sure the awd rear bar is not the same as the fwd. i have pictures back at the house so i can comfirm this when i get back there. i'm sure if you get the set of sway bars that they would be designed for eachother but keep in mind you do want some weight transfer. (ie the bigger sway in the rear the more likely you are to oversteer and vise-versa). Since the 1gs tend to understeer they are most likely correct in saying the front bar is sufficient and only a rear bar is needed for a more neutral handling car.

 

[tsiboosted]

I'm pretty sure the awd rear bar is not the same as the fwd. i have pictures back at the house so i can comfirm this when i get back there. i'm sure if you get the set of sway bars that they would be designed for eachother but keep in mind you do want some weight transfer. (ie the bigger sway in the rear the more likely you are to oversteer and vise-versa). Since the 1gs tend to understeer they are most likely correct in saying the front bar is sufficient and only a rear bar is needed for a more neutral handling car.

Yes sir good point Mike. I only use the rear bar myself. As FWD's to tend to want to plow around like a dump truck on rails, the rear bar is the 1st step if you want to go that way. Front bar not so much really. Glad you have some more insight to the AWD vs FWD bars as well for the 1G's. I was going off my knowledge of the 2G bars

 

[97eclipseNT]

ya i'm in the computer lab up at school right now so when i get back to my apt i'll try to load the pics up. i have one of my awd bar off of the car and one of my buddys ST bar on his car. i'll get them up sometime tonight for ya

 

[habitatguy187]

I only use the rear bar myself. As FWD's to tend to want to plow around like a dump truck on rails, the rear bar is the 1st step if you want to go that way. Front bar not so much really.

I don't understand what you guys are saying. What is the downside to having a front sway bar? Remember I have absolutely no experience with suspension so please try to explain things like I'm a little child, I won't get upset.

 

[tsiboosted]

I don't understand what you guys are saying. What is the downside to having a front sway bar? Remember I have absolutely no experience with suspension so please try to explain things like I'm a little child, I won't get upset.

Basically 2G's have a bad understeer (push) issue with them. The stiffer you get the suspension the better it gets at not understeering. However, if you have too stiff of front end, the car will still want to push through the front tires instead of rotating the car. If you stiffen up the rear in essence the car will want to rotate from the rear instead over udersteering (pushing) through the turns.

Here are some typical things you may feel happening to the car and what you can do to adjust to correct the issue:

Understeering - Well this is a very common one amongst DSMers I am sure. If you do not have the ability to adjsut ride height, spring rate etc. You may want to consider doing some of the following that I have seen to make a difference.

Adjust front and rear tire pressures. I know it may not seem like much, but effectivley lowering your front tire pressure is like softening your front spring rate (to a certian degree). Raising tire pressure does just the opposite. It is like stiffening your spring rates. So if you lower your front pressures and raise your rear pressures, you will get less traction in the rear and force the car to rotate more. In theory of course, but I must say I have seen it and felt it work first hand.

You also may want to try and undo your front sway bar (if applicable). The car may not react as quickly as normal, but the front end will not "push" out or understeer as bad.

Oversteering - Contrary to popular belief, you can make DSMs oversterer as well. This in affect is when the rear of the car seems to always want to come around on you in turns.

Again, you can start by adjusting your tire pressures the opposite way as you did in the understeer scenario. Raise the fron pressure and lower the rear pressure. In effect, you are rasing the rate of the suspension in the front causing the front of the car to "push" out a bit more than it currently is. Lowering the rear pressure will cuse the rear end to have more tire patch on the track thus giving it more grip to not let it "come around" on you.

These are jsut a few things I personally have experienced at the track before in my car. Some have been fixed, others...Well, lets just say its a work in progess on those. There are those on here that may not agree with what I have posted here. But I have done nothing more than post exepriences as I said I have been through and what I did to correct them. I hope more people will start to add to this thread and their setups.

Some rules of thumb to keep in your mind on tire pressures:

Rasing tire pressure will react as stiffening your suspension and will cause that particular tire to react slower, causing more of a "push/understeer" or have less grip.

Lowering tire pressures will react as softening your suspension and will cause the tire to have more patch on the surface and increase your grip.

 

[Highbooost]

They are different. But I suppose it would work. I had some clerance issues using a FWD tranny in my AWD car, the sway bars were different, and the FWD axle was hitting the sway bar when I jacked it up, but it was fine when the car was on the ground, look do it RIGHT go buy what you need don't do it half ass. Also you don't need a sway bar for the front on these cars, just a rear per RRE. Oh and BTW if you want your car to handle like an EVO (which it never will) stealing stock parts off of other cars is not the way to do it. The FWD is a big POS for handling because the rear suspension is the WORST design possible.

Later DR Turbo

I was reading the upgrade paths and was looking at the autoX setup. (I know nothing about suspension) Anyway it says that the awd front swaybar is sufficient, but not the fwd front sway bar.

So my question is, can I put the front sway bar from an awd onto my fwd?

My eventual goal here is to make my car handle close to an evo 8, I've driven many, and love the way they handle. So any other helpful advice is greatly appreciated.

BTW: I want to do the cheapest/easiest upgrades first, as I'm still trying to build the rest of the car. Thanks guys.

 

[habitatguy187]

They are different. But I suppose it would work. I had some clerance issues using a FWD tranny in my AWD car, the sway bars were different, and the FWD axle was hitting the sway bar when I jacked it up, but it was fine when the car was on the ground, look do it RIGHT go buy what you need don't do it half ass. Also you don't need a sway bar for the front on these cars, just a rear per RRE. Oh and BTW if you want your car to handle like an EVO (which it never will) stealing stock parts off of other cars is not the way to do it. The FWD is a big POS for handling because the rear suspension is the WORST design possible.

Later DR Turbo

Alright man thanks for your advice. So rear sway bar and a drop some harder struts is basically all I should do for handling right? I read not to drop it more than 1.5 inches, wondering how low I can go before I need a camber kit?

 

[nuclearr]

The EVO8 has to toaly differnt suspension design than a 1g. The 1gs use a mcphearson strut on the front and tralinging arms on the rear. I belive the EVO8 uses a double wish bone front and rear (corect me if I am wrong). That is one reason I scraped my 1g AWD project for a 2g awd project. The one 1g's will never handle like an EVO8 the other advantage the EVO has is that AWD makes a huge difference on the handling. You could drop several thousand dolars into a 1g supension and not handle like and EVO8 especially a FWD.

 

[dsm-onster]

My 1990 FWD sway bar was identical to my 1991 awd sway bar. There was a change from A generation to B generation. Or at least from a FWD/AWD A generation to my 1.8L B generation. I had all three at one time to compare.

 

[Ludachris]

The EVO8 has to toaly differnt suspension design than a 1g. The 1gs use a mcphearson strut on the front and tralinging arms on the rear. I belive the EVO8 uses a double wish bone front and rear (corect me if I am wrong). That is one reason I scraped my 1g AWD project for a 2g awd project. The one 1g's will never handle like an EVO8 the other advantage the EVO has is that AWD makes a huge difference on the handling. You could drop several thousand dolars into a 1g supension and not handle like and EVO8 especially a FWD.

Actually, the Evo uses a MacPerson strut in the front and a trailing arm rear suspension like a 1g. It's just a better designed system using newer technology. It also helps that the Evo has a stiffer chassis.

If anything, the Evo suspension resembles a 1g more than it does a 2g. The technology has just progressed throughout the years. I wish we could use all the Evo cast aluminum suspension pieces on our 1g's. How cool would that be?

 

[habitatguy187]

Ok so what I've learned so far is that I don't need a front sway bar, just a rear. Any word on strut tower bars? (not real keen on taking away engine bay space)

And a very big question I have, what should I look for when it comes to lowering springs? I've seen some for $99 and some for $250. Thanks

 

[Boostjunki84]

As far springs go I personally recommend the Eibach Pro-kit springs. You will want to upgrade the shocks as well. At the very least get yourself a set of KYB AGXs, but the Koni Sports will be one of the best choices. If you just get springs and do not upgrade your shocks, they will blow out quickly. The Pro-kit usually goes for around $200-$230.

 

[habitatguy187]

As far springs go I personally recommend the Eibach Pro-kit springs. You will want to upgrade the shocks as well. At the very least get yourself a set of KYB AGXs, but the Koni Sports will be one of the best choices. If you just get springs and do not upgrade your shocks, they will blow out quickly. The Pro-kit usually goes for around $200-$230.

Would it be ok to get the shocks first with the stock springs until I can save up some money for springs, or should they be bought all at once?

 

[Boostjunki84]

If you are able I would just do both at the same time. If you have to choose between one or the other, get yourself a set of adjustable shocks first.

Koni Sport Cartridge

 

[z24frank]

what about the megan racing springs?

 

[habitatguy187]

what about the megan racing springs?

What about them? I know nothing about them, tell me more.

 

[Highbooost]

You haven't learned anything yet... FWD is NOT the way to go, save your money sell your FWD and buy an AWD. Oh and don't listen to 2g owners about their suspension design being superior, it is not.

FWD Dsms are the worst handling cars I can think of. I personally know 4 different friends that have totalled 1g fwds, I almost killed myself in one, and I had one friend actually die in his. Ironically enough that was 5 years ago to the date, 2.14.04. RIP Joey Adams.

Later Dr Turbo

Ok so what I've learned so far is that I don't need a front sway bar, just a rear. Any word on strut tower bars? (not real keen on taking away engine bay space)

And a very big question I have, what should I look for when it comes to lowering springs? I've seen some for $99 and some for $250. Thanks

 

[habitatguy187]

You haven't learned anything yet... FWD is NOT the way to go, save your money sell your FWD and buy an AWD. Oh and don't listen to 2g owners about their suspension design being superior, it is not.

FWD Dsms are the worst handling cars I can think of. I personally know 4 different friends that have totalled 1g fwds, I almost killed myself in one, and I had one friend actually die in his. Ironically enough that was 5 years ago to the date, 2.14.04. RIP Joey Adams.

Later Dr Turbo

Alright maybe I should rephrase my goal here; I want a solid handling car, that's all. I'm not going to be road racing or doing any autoX. Just want to be able to turn nicely without much body roll.

There's no way I will sell this car unless someone offers me much more than what it's worth, not because I don't want awd, but because I don't feel that I'll need it bad enough to go through the trouble of switching cars and redoing maintenance/basic mods again.

 

[Highbooost]

Okay now we are talking.

Some of the best handling mods on my FWDs were:
KYB AGX adjustables
Eibach pro-kit springs
Poly urathane bushings everything.
Front and rear sturt bars
And the most important thing TIRES, obivously the softer the compound the better.

Proper maintenance to suspension is a must like, good wheel bearing, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc.

The problem is the back ends really like to come around on those things, I am sure with the propber rear sway bar set up and alignment that can be overcome to a degree, but I don't know that combo. I never did any sway bars on a FWD.

Later Dr Turbo

 

[Boostjunki84]

...Also you don't need a sway bar for the front on these cars, just a rear per RRE...

...Front and rear sturt bars...

...I never did any sway bars on a FWD...

I'm confused. First you said that doing a sway bar on the front is not needed. Then you recommended both front and rear sway bars as good suspension upgrades; and finally you state that you've never done sway bars on a FWD.


To the OP, I have had my FWD 2g for 6 years now and take it to autox on a regular basis. I currently have a KYB/Eibach setup with polyurathane bushings and an RM racing rear sway bar. I put this setup together over time and have had the current setup for a little over a year. It has been a good setup and have been fairly competitive in the Street Modified class I run in.

Currently I am looking into upgrading again to either a Ground Control/Koni setup or coilovers. It's just to the point where I would like more adjustability of my suspension.

Also, an LSD or LSD insert will do wonders for FWDs and I highly recommend getting one.