Front Brake Cooling on a 2GB

[talonracn49]

I am looking for some pictures and a quick how to on installing some brake ductwork for my GST. I am thinking I will remove the fog lights and use those holes for the air intakes, but I would like to see if someone else has tried this way or another way with success.

I did search and couldnt find anything on cooling the brakes. Thanks for looking!

 

[siceclipse]

if you are retaining the stock 95 bumper then yes, the only EASY way is to take out the stock fog lights.

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

Probably not what you were thinking... but a good idea would be to remove the inner front wheel well and cut out a section to allow air to flow through there freely. I've seen some guys cover it up w/ a wire mesh similar to what some guys put in there front bumper.

 

[kmoore]

I am looking for some pictures and a quick how to on installing some brake ductwork for my GST. I am thinking I will remove the fog lights and use those holes for the air intakes, but I would like to see if someone else has tried this way or another way with success.

I did search and couldnt find anything on cooling the brakes. Thanks for looking!

That is exactly what I did. I have a bunch of random pictures from my downpipe install, that you can see the duct work from the fog light holes routed to the front brakes. Here is that link:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257953

 

[jtmcinder]

I would do some pressure testing before deleting the fender liner. It's very hard to predict what would happen. You need real data. It is quite possible that deleting the liner would make things worse.

Testing is not difficult. Tape the end of your boost-gauge's hose in various places and go for drives. That's how I decided where to put the vent in my hood. (As it turns out, my testing led me to the same location as RRE; I should have known this and just copied them, but the testing was fun.)

- Jtoby

 

[RamenPride]

Probably not what you were thinking... but a good idea would be to remove the inner front wheel well and cut out a section to allow air to flow through there freely. I've seen some guys cover it up w/ a wire mesh similar to what some guys put in there front bumper.

I thought people did that to get more airflow through the sidemount intercooler.

 

[jtmcinder]

Since the front wheel wells are almost always high-pressure areas, the last thing you want for better IC/radiator air-flow is to delete the fender liners. Number One for radiator flow is an under-bumper air-dam; Number Two is a hood vent.

- Jtoby

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

jtm, can I see your under-bumper air dam?

 

[talonracn49]

yeah, sorry, I guess I should have updated that this is for a 2GB GST. I need to update my profile.

 

[jtmcinder]

Just because I said that Number One was an air-dam and Number Two was a hood vent doesn't mean I actually did them in that order. All I have is the hood vent.

But I have an excuse: there's a nasty dip where the taxi-way meets the apron in front of the terminal at the airport where my region races. Nobody from around here still has an airdam, assuming they ever had one.

On the bright side, the F125 karts do get some serious air, which is fun to watch.

- Jtoby

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

I used to have brake ducting using the fog light holes. When I went with a FMIC, I then used the side gills with better success. If you look at the 2gb bumper, a LOT of the air that hits the front bumper should peel into the side gills where the stock SMIC is on both the passenger and driver sides, as they "capture" a lot of air. The fog holes are flush with the bumper and not much air will want to go through there, not to mention the hole is much smaller. The SMIC way is much more effective if done right. Since the inlet hole for the side gill is much larger than the diameter of brake ducting you want to be using (about 2.5" or so), I used a funnel shaped aluminum duct piece I found at home depot. It fits perfectly behind the gill and it tapers down into about a 2.75" outlet which fit perfectly on some aluminum ducting I found.

Another important thing about brake ducting is how it is directed at the rotor/caliper. One way is to just point it in the general direction, and have it far enough away from the rotating front suspension/tire so it doesn't rub it at full lock. This isn't effective as the air has to go almost a foot through the air before it reaches the rotor/caliper. The best way is to make some sort of bracket so that as the suspension rotates, the ducting follows it. Depending on what the duct is made out of, all that continuous bending will break it sooner or later. All in all brake ducting really isn't all that useful and probably won't make much of a difference if you're overheating your stock brakes. Time for a big brake kit.

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

I would do some pressure testing before deleting the fender liner. It's very hard to predict what would happen. You need real data. It is quite possible that deleting the liner would make things worse.

Testing is not difficult. Tape the end of your boost-gauge's hose in various places and go for drives. That's how I decided where to put the vent in my hood. (As it turns out, my testing led me to the same location as RRE; I should have known this and just copied them, but the testing was fun.)

- Jtoby

I'm NOT trying to be an ass, but how does that tell you where to put your hood vent? I don't understand what the tape will tell you. Just curious.

 

[T2Small]

I'm NOT trying to be an ass, but how does that tell you where to put your hood vent? I don't understand what the tape will tell you. Just curious.

He is taping the end of the hose leading to the vacuum/boost gauge so he may determine the pressure at the given area. By taping that end of the hose to different spots you can determine the low pressure areas which are most suitable for intercooler exits and much less suitable for any inlets (brake ducting, intercoolers, radiators etc.).

 

[jtmcinder]

Bingo. Turns out, the best place was not only where RRE put theirs, but it's also the obvious: the front edge is just behind the radiator and the rear edge is just in front of the valve cover. Check my profile/pics for the $10 Wal-Mart hood vent.

With regard to the 2Gb Talon front fascia: yes, it does a great job of getting air to a SMIC and/or oil cooler. And, to back up what was said above, as well as combine this with the issue of the wheel well being a high-pressure area: it is critical to adapt the OE tube to match any upgraded SMIC. You don't want a SMIC just hanging in the front corner without forcing the air through it. Because we sit in grid after each run, I ended up putting a pusher fan on mine; it wasn't getting cool between runs without out.

- Jtoby

 

[chico904]

Since the front wheel wells are almost always high-pressure areas, the last thing you want for better IC/radiator air-flow is to delete the fender liners.
- Jtoby

I dont have the inner fender liner on the smic side, car didn't come with it when I bought it. Why does not having it there reduce flow? Just curious.

 

[jtmcinder]

I didn't do any testing, so I'm not sure. At first I ran my large SMIC with the fender liner intact; then I cut a big hole in the liner; then I gave up and got a pusher fan.

The issue for me was sitting in grid, in August, between autocross runs. No airflow at all without the fan. I could, of course, get out and spray water on it, but part of the point of the hood vent was to have the option of not getting out (if tire pressures didn't need to be checked). I have a tendency to get distracted and not review my runs and plan for the next one, making the same mistake repeatedly. The option of staying in the car has helped. Obviously, if you don't have these issues, your best approach could be very different.

- Jtoby

 

[Defiant]

Are you going to be able to duct as much air to the rotors as they draw on their own?
If you have the clearance, you can use defroster ducts under the bumper to feed shop vacuum hose out to the wheels. It's just that you don't get worthwhile flow under about thirty, and by then I'd expect the wheels to be taking care of their own flow.
It's one thing when you're braking through the Mulsanne chicanes at 170, and another at fifteen through an autocross.

 

[jtmcinder]

If you left-foot brake (for boost), then you can cook your brakes in a 30-second autocross run. When we have 60-second runs, I have to lay off the braking for boost if I want to stop at the end. My rotors get so hot that I gain tire pressure in grid as the heat moves to the wheel.

It does not matter if you are braking from 170 to whatever or riding the brakes at 30; if you are using your brakes, they are getting hotter. I've considered getting those in-line fans to put inside brake ducts, because, sitting in grid, there's no airflow, regardless of the ducting's intake and/or the vanes in the rotors. Autocrossers do not have the option of cruising around to cool off their brakes.

- Jtoby

 

[talonracn49]

This will be for a track event at VIR. HPDE with NASA. North course.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

This will be for a track event at VIR. HPDE with NASA. North course.

Glad to see another DSMer road racing. Post a write-up about the event in the road course forum section for us after you go!

 

[talonracn49]

will do, how do the GSX's brakes stand up to the road course -- do you experience any cooling problems eclipsegsx1736?

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

They actually worked really well. Streets of Willow Springs is a pretty intense braking track. I just bought Porterfield R4-E (the endurance carbon kevlar track pads, $150/pair) brake pads for the front, kept my shity metalmasters in the reatr, and used some nice brake fluid. I beat on those brakes for over 30 minutes non stop in one session and they always stopped the same. Calipers got hot enough to melt the dust boot seals and boiled my "track tested" 500 degree ceramic caliper paint and turned it to mostly ash but brakes kept working 100%.

 

[Defiant]

It does not matter if you are braking from 170 to whatever or riding the brakes at 30; if you are using your brakes, they are getting hotter. I've considered getting those in-line fans to put inside brake ducts, because, sitting in grid, there's no airflow, regardless of the ducting's intake and/or the vanes in the rotors. Autocrossers do not have the option of cruising around to cool off their brakes.

Exactly- but adding ducts to a car in still or slow air won't do much to help cooling. You'll need movement to get the air through them, whether it's forward speed or booster fans.

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Hi,

To help with the low speed problem, you could build ducts for the intake of your brake cooler hoses, kind of like this:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ascar&svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:*

Becasue that way you are getting a large cross-sectional area of air and then "squezzing" it to a smaller cross sectional area. This must make the air veolicty increase, and that is what you want, since the air veolicty is what cools the brakes.

Bill

P.S. - Sorry just saw the above posts, if this doesnt work then yeah you can try little fans or something in the hose.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

This will be for a track event at VIR. HPDE with NASA. North course.

No kidding?!!! Sweet, ill be the only other DSMer out there. Is this gonna be your first NASA event? Talking about July right? I gotta remember to email Laura and use up the rest of my credits for that event.