Aftermarket BBK for 3000GT

[Flash]

I was wondering if an aftermarket big brake kit for a 3000GT would fit a 2g DSM. For example, would a Stoptech big brake kit made for the 3000GT fit a 2g? I know OEM 3000GT brakes (lines, rotors, and calipers) fit 2g's perfectly. But is it right to assume that in theory aftermarket big brakes for the 3000GT would fit a 2g DSM?

 

[Flash]

Well, I thought I would find out for myself to help all of you. But I asked a person in power at Rotora and he said the non VR4 aftermarket big brakes will fit a 2g. But the only problem is that the brake line is a different length then the 2g.

 

[tstkl]

so.... just use 2g brake lines.....

I believe I read a site (the link was on here) about a bracket made to use vr-4 brakes on a 2g. With that kit, you could use big brake kits designed for the vr-4 on your 2g. I'll look tomorrow when Im not so tired and post the link when I find it.

 

[flacopower]

so.... just use 2g brake lines.....

I believe I read a site (the link was on here) about a bracket made to use vr-4 brakes on a 2g. With that kit, you could use big brake kits designed for the vr-4 on your 2g. I'll look tomorrow when Im not so tired and post the link when I find it.

the oe brakes off the vr4 are already huge on our cars is as.. if you got aftermarket bbk, you would have one very disproportioned braking system.

 

[tstkl]

the oe brakes off the vr4 are already huge on our cars is as.. if you got aftermarket bbk, you would have one very disproportioned braking system.

not if you got bigger rear brakes. I bet you could make a bracket for our front brakes to fit on the rear or something, and then get some 6 piston brakes in the back and 8 piston in the front or something.

either way, its not like it would HURT to have too big of brakes in the front. once your tires lose traction, the weight will start to shift towards the back and the traction/braking force from those tires will kick in. It will even itself out in my opinion.

 

[Ludachris]

Any particular reason you're going with Rotora, Grant? Are you looking for more bling than functionality? If you're going to spend all that money on big brakes, might as well get a kit that is made specifically for your car and does the job as good as possible. Rotora is great for drifting and car shows (which is where they spend all their marketing dollars) but not many people choose their kits for racing.

If you want some bling with functionality, why no go with the TCE kit and get the painted caliper option? At least then you know you're getting a kit that will hold up on the race track if you ever decide to do that. And you get the looks too.

 

[weith1111]

either way, its not like it would HURT to have too big of brakes in the front. once your tires lose traction, the weight will start to shift towards the back and the traction/braking force from those tires will kick in. It will even itself out in my opinion.

Actually, it WOULD hurt. Why just have NO rear brakes if they are that useless?

The tech forums are a place for facts not opinions. If you don't think a properly proportioned brake system is important, think of how many threads on here you read about how someone just totaled their properly-brake-biased car by slamming into a tree, a pole, or some other car because they lost control. Imagine these drivers with brake systems that are unpredictably biased.

Millions of dollars go into the design and testing of braking systems. People using engineering degrees, computers, and real world testing. You can't just slap some random "bigger" parts on and go "eh that'll do" and expect it to work as well as the OEM system and be safe.

 

[underradar92]

so.... just use 2g brake lines.....

I believe I read a site (the link was on here) about a bracket made to use vr-4 brakes on a 2g. .

Here it is. http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184965 It's a long read and the work involved is not for the feint of heart. I had a lot of the parts, then I just bought TCE's deal, because of the master cylinder volume question. The OP also hasn't specified 3s TT or n/t brakes, I'm guessing he meant n/t's as they are a common upgrade for 1g's and the 2g's that came with the puny 10" front brakes.

 

[Flash]

Any particular reason you're going with Rotora, Grant? Are you looking for more bling than functionality? If you're going to spend all that money on big brakes, might as well get a kit that is made specifically for your car and does the job as good as possible. Rotora is great for drifting and car shows (which is where they spend all their marketing dollars) but not many people choose their kits for racing.

If you want some bling with functionality, why no go with the TCE kit and get the painted caliper option? At least then you know you're getting a kit that will hold up on the race track if you ever decide to do that. And you get the looks too.

Chris, I already have a Rotora BBK, I'm considering upgrading my brakes after I get my engine work done. So I asked about the 3000GT BBK fitting a 2g because Endless makes a BBK for the 3000GT and not a 2g. The brake line issue is the only problem. I don't want to spend $3k on a front BBK and have an issue with a brake line.
Forged aluminum calipers that weight only 7 lbs each... Stuff my dreams are made of...
I might just go with StopTech, but no one has Endless on a DSM.

 

[Flash]

"Your rear brakes are fine, the more brake you put on the front the less you need on the rear." - RRE's website

 

[underradar92]

Chris, I already have a Rotora BBK, I'm considering upgrading my brakes after I get my engine work done. So I asked about the 3000GT BBK fitting a 2g because Endless makes a BBK for the 3000GT and not a 2g. The brake line issue is the only problem. I don't want to spend $3k on a front BBK and have an issue with a brake line.
Forged aluminum calipers that weight only 7 lbs each... Stuff my dreams are made of...
I might just go with StopTech, but no one has Endless on a DSM.

http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/cgi-bin/brakes/cginews.pl?record=14 WAY less than $3000.00

 

[Flash]

I know what I want. It's either Stoptech's or Endless.
I'd just love to get something like Endless brakes to work on a DSM. It's more like one of those totally pointless things I'd like to do just for fun. What I also think Stoptech would offer better customer support then some people across the ocean.
We'll see. My brakes and suspension are something that I hope to be addressing next year, so I'm just brainstorming now.

 

[weith1111]

"Your rear brakes are fine, the more brake you put on the front the less you need on the rear." - RRE's website

You should work for the tabloids. That's taken out of context:

Factory Big Brake Upgrades

Fits all FWD turbo and non turbo '89-99 & AWDs from '89-92 (mfg date of 5/92). Kit increases rotor diameter from 255mm to 275mm. Calipers are dual piston instead of single piston. Fits some 15" and all 16" wheels. Kit is for the front only. Your rear brakes are fine, the more brake you put on the front the less you need on the rear.

They certainly aren't referring to a $3000 or 8 piston 13+" setup for the front and leaving the rears stock.

 

[Flash]

You should work for the tabloids. That's taken out of context:

Factory Big Brake Upgrades

Fits all FWD turbo and non turbo '89-99 & AWDs from '89-92 (mfg date of 5/92). Kit increases rotor diameter from 255mm to 275mm. Calipers are dual piston instead of single piston. Fits some 15" and all 16" wheels. Kit is for the front only. Your rear brakes are fine, the more brake you put on the front the less you need on the rear.

They certainly aren't referring to a $3000 or 8 piston 13+" setup for the front and leaving the rears stock.

I don't understand how it's taken out of context. It says that statement in a general sense "the more brake you put in the front the less you need in the rear." I don't see how that is specific to the OEM factory big brake upgrade.
Weith, saying I should work for the "tabloids" isn't exactly reaching out a hand to help. Just have fun and learn something, nothing to get serious over.
And no the brakes I refer to are not "8 piston."

Back on topic.

 

[Flash]

With 4 pot calipers, it would be fine. Even if I wanted 6 pots, I think I would be fine because of the weight transfer to the front during hard braking. The more weight transfered to the front during braking, the more front bias I need, but on a proportional level to create a neutral feeling (good brake pads and rotors in the rear.)
I know a car with more rear bias will be more unstable, we've all pulled the e-brake handle before.
Stoptech simply doesn't offer a rear caliper kit for our cars. They do for Evo's. I heard something about OEM Brembos off the rear of an Evo fitting on the rear of 2g's perfectly? Then would Stoptech Evo rear big brakes work on the back of a 2g's?

This thread has went from simply asking about fitment issues of a brake kit to aspects of handling.

 

[weith1111]

This thread has went from simply asking about fitment issues of a brake kit to aspects of handling.

You are correct.

But I think you answered your own question in post #2. Just resolve the brake line issue and it sounds like you have a winner.

 

[tstkl]

"Your rear brakes are fine, the more brake you put on the front the less you need on the rear." - RRE's website

Actually, it WOULD hurt. Why just have NO rear brakes if they are that useless?

The tech forums are a place for facts not opinions. If you don't think a properly proportioned brake system is important, think of how many threads on here you read about how someone just totaled their properly-brake-biased car by slamming into a tree, a pole, or some other car because they lost control. Imagine these drivers with brake systems that are unpredictably biased.

Millions of dollars go into the design and testing of braking systems. People using engineering degrees, computers, and real world testing. You can't just slap some random "bigger" parts on and go "eh that'll do" and expect it to work as well as the OEM system and be safe.

Its not just my opinion, its physics.

Your cars braking is limited by your tires adhesion to the ground. Larger brakes are used in the front because the deceleration causes weight to shift forward, causing the front tires to have a larger load (and the car weighs more in the front to begin with), and thusly more traction. This extra traction allows them to slow the car down more than the rear. The larger the front brakes are, the faster the car slows down, and even MORE weight is shifted to the front of the car, giving the front tire even more traction. Lets say you have more brake than you do tire. The brake will lock up the front wheels, causing them to slide. This sliding will cause weight to shift back to the rear again, and the rear tires will gain traction once again.

Why the #### do you think 90% of the big brake kits on the market only deal with the front brakes?

don't call me out on science..... and I never said, you can completely remove your rear brakes and it will have no negative effects whatsoever, DID I?

 

[steel_3d]

Here it is. http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184965 It's a long read and the work involved is not for the feint of heart. I had a lot of the parts, then I just bought TCE's deal, because of the master cylinder volume question.

You have to realize that the Wilwood calipers come with relatively large piston area. If TCE uses the smaller 1.36" not the 1.76" FSL's, their piston area comes out to 5.8 sqin vs 4.4sqin for the stock calipers. That is 32% larger! As a comparison, going from a 15/16 to a 1" master cylinder will give you a 13% increase in area. Going from 15/16 to 17/16 gives 28% more area. Seems like the area of the 3kgt's calipers would be similar or smaller based on the master cylinder size. Unfortunately I don't have the measurements of either the dsm or 3kgt calipers, so I'm kinda pulling numbers out of the air, but my guess is the Wilwoods are at least as big or bigger. They're known to be relatively flexy too.

Don't get me wrong, I'm kinda considering Wilwoods myself, but Porsche or other Brembo calipers might be firmer. And you shouldn't discount 3kgt or cobra calipers based on piston area. Anybody know what piston sizes and rotor sizes Porsches come with? I'd like to run 13"x1.1 rotors. Mounting would be kind of a bi*** though with the radial mounting arrangement...

 

[Flash]

I keep reading posts about people thinking I want the OEM 3000GT brakes. I don't. I'm more interested in the Endless BBK for the 3000GT, because it is a forged mono bloc caliper. And just the fact no one has those brakes on their car.
Oh well, this thread is me just thinking out loud.

 

[underradar92]

Steve, 3S's have a 1 1/16" mc diameter while DSM's are 15/16" and 1", depending on a few factors. That is part of the equation that gave me pause. That and a track day caliper fire on a 3000 TT. TCE has done all the math, and their kit works well. I know a guy who used Porsche calipers on a 3000 TT to great results, FWIW. To you, Mr. Flash, I say go for it.

 

[Flash]

Steve, 3S's have a 1 1/16" mc diameter while DSM's are 15/16" and 1", depending on a few factors. That is part of the equation that gave me pause. That and a track day caliper fire on a 3000 TT. TCE has done all the math, and their kit works well. I know a guy who used Porsche calipers on a 3000 TT to great results, FWIW. To you, Mr. Flash, I say go for it.

I would go for it, but $3k for brakes. The one for the Evo is roughly $2,300 because it's 4 pots. I have no choice but the 3000GT brakes that are 6 pots and about $2,800-$3k. I'd love to find a way to slap the Endless BBK for the Evo on just to save a little money. But I just don't know the truth to what I've read about putting Evo brakes on a 2g with the aid of late-model Galant steering knuckles.

 

[Ludachris]

Dammit Grant, you're too caught up in bling and the carshow mentality of "nobody else has them". Get something that is made for your car. Todd at TCE makes kits specifically for our cars and has done all the engineering to make sure they work right. I know you want something that not everyone has, but you don't see many people will BBK's on these cars anyway - everyone's too cheap.

Trying to adapt a kit that isn't made for the car is only going to get you into trouble, and even if it doesn't, who knows if it will even perform as well as a kit half the price that was made for the car.

What am I saying - your username is "Flash" - why am I trying to talk you into functionality?

 

[underradar92]

What am I saying - your username is "Flash" - why am I trying to talk you into functionality?

Meanie. I'm telling a moderator.