Tokico Illuminas - $246 shipped - too good to be true?

[Rice Over Wheat]

Zero Limit Racing...anyone done any business with these guys? They advertise 2G FWD Front Tokico Illuminas for $113.75 and Rear Tokico Illuminas for $112.35. Shipping is $20 anywhere in the US.

This seems too good to be true to me as I've almost never seen a retailer sell an item for $100 less than the cost of Ebay sellers. I've been trying to call these folks but always busy...hoping to get an email response.

What do you all think? I'm beginning to wonder if those prices are for EACH shock.

http://www.racezero.com/webstore/cgi-bin/cp-app.pl?pg=prod&ref=BU3534

 

[denniegst]

how about email? if thats the price for a pair then im getting some

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

how about email? if thats the price for a pair then im getting some

Yeah I emailed them through the site but that was a few hours ago. I ordered a full set from somewhere else already for $360 shipped. That's because I suspect these people are trying to sell them in singles...if not, that's a hell of a deal and I'll regret my impatience.

 

[denniegst]

yah they didnt do good of a job of clarifying things, some things are just too good to be true. give an update if they respond back though

 

[Stapl3]

I bet it's for each shock.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

They're pretty misleading on their prices unless you look closly....$160 is roughly the list price EACH. So they're sold as singles, NOT PAIRS. Expect to pay around $200 a set front or rear. You got a good deal at $360 shipped. Where at?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Got a response...price is per SINGLE:

Hello,

The price is per shock so you would need to purchase two for the front and
two for the rear. If you have anymore questions or need anything else please
let me know.

Thanks!

David Fielding
Zero Limit Racing
[email protected]
Phone: 425.892.0345
Toll Free: 877.405.4648
Fax: 425.892.0327

Ah well, like they say...if it's sounds too good to be true it probably is.

They're pretty misleading on their prices unless you look closly....$160 is roughly the list price EACH. So they're sold as singles, NOT PAIRS. Expect to pay around $200 a set front or rear. You got a good deal at $360 shipped. Where at?

Rhythm Motorsports...you can buy them through their Ebay auctions. They have 100% feedback and it's an actual store. This is the auction I bought mine from. There's a few more listed by the shop if you do a search. He said they have more in stock.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...60027054374&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT&rd=1

Edit: So I bought my Eibach Pro-kit / Tokico Illumina setup for $537.98 shipped. I talked to a guy at RRE and he said that with a proper alignment after installing the setup I might not need their camber kit since it's only a 1" drop. Hopefully he is right. That's another $140 front/rear.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

As stated, with a 1" drop you shouldn't need camber kits. However, if you decide to go lower, you will. Either way you will need an alignment after the upgrade.

My suggestion is before you install the new items, take the car to Firestone, NTW or someplace similar that offers a "lifetime" 4-point alignment. It cost roughly $130 here in Houston and with that you can take the car back every week if that's what you feel is needed. And with camber kits the alignment gets "knocked out" pretty easily. I went to Firestone for mine and my car gets put on the rack at every oil change and it's always somewhat out.

It will also go in sooner if I hit an unexpected bump or pothole. When I had mine done back in 99 there was no restriction, however, if the car is lowered when you take it in they will no longer offer the lifetime deal....so do it now and it will be honored as long as you own the car...just an FYI.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

That's a good idea, I'll probably do that thanks.

 

[my98GST]

So find somewhere that offers Lifetime allignements and take it in before you drop it and have them to it then and then drop it and it still honors the "lifetime" allignement even after the car is dropped?

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Actually I tried this before I had mine installed and the Firestones at least around orlando aren't dumb enough to fall for that, . They say out front that lifetime alignments are void if I lower my car.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Actually I tried this before I had mine installed and the Firestones at least around orlando aren't dumb enough to fall for that, . They say out front that lifetime alignments are void if I lower my car.

Damn, that sucks. I had mine done back in 99 and they still align mine every 3 months, but I guess I'm "grandfathered" in. I had a buddy do it last year, but then again things change.

 

[jtmcinder]

Even with only a 1" drop, a 2G will handle better with the upper rear arms spaced out a little. I'd use about 1/8" to 3/16" of spacers with a 1" drop. And then get aligned to a smidgeon of rear toe-in and a tad of front toe-out.

- Jtoby

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

After my illuminas and pro-kit were installed, my camber was knocked off -0.8 ~ -3* from spec depending on wheel. So I added the RRE camber kit designed for this very same combo. Supposedly the rear spacers adjust +2 and the fronts were adjustable to +/- 1*. In reality, they adjusted about -1.2* in the rear (but you can add washers for more), and the fronts adjusted -0.8 max. Now I'm within spec on all wheels except the front right which is still off by -0.1*. I can live with that though.

I got more drop from the pro-kit than I expected. I thought they were 1", apparently it's really 1.3".

Oh, and with my tokico settings at 2 in front and 4 in rear, I get mad torque steer to the right on hard acceleration from a stop. Perfectly straight when cruising though. Tokico's instructions said something about stiffer front = more oversteer while stiffer rear = more understeer, or something to that effect. I love how the car handles now with almost zero roll. And for those with traction fwd traction issues, I'd put this mod at higher priority than poly mm's or even LSD, because it's a HUGE difference from the stop. Weight transfer is reduced greatly and I have far less tire spin. More chirps, less burnouts.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

A LSD or at least inserts will help alleviate the "mad torque steer". I wouldn't go over about 350WHP on the inserts, so you need to be true with yourself about your HP goals for the car. Otherwise you'll be wasting $200.

A true LSD ($700+) would not be a waste, no matter what.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Oh I agree on lsd, I believe it's important and I plan to get one. I was just saying that I believe stiff adjustable suspension is as, if not more, important for fwd traction issues. It helps immensely.

My hp goals happen to be 350whp. Haven't put in my 650s and fmic yet. Hope to soon and see where I stand.

 

[jtmcinder]

Don't 96 GSTs have the extra brace under the AC unit so the (outer) axles are the same length? (That's a question and not my usual sarcasm.)

- Jtoby

ps. if you have "almost zero body roll" with Prokits, you need new tires or a heavier right foot

pps. that was my usual sarcasm

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I have no idea about the axle. Are you saying I should have roll or shouldn't have roll? If I take a very hard turn at speed or change directions suddenly, then of course I can still get a little roll. But nothing like it was without the new suspension. Car handled like shit before.

 

[jtmcinder]

The reason I asked about the the axle brace is there are suspension problems that can cause what seems like torque-steer, such as a trashed bushing. If you have equal-length axles, then you ought to be looking into this alternative.

Yes, I was suggesting that your car rolls in a corner. I have between three and four times your roll stiffness, but look at my avatar. Statements like "handles like it's on rails" and "no body roll" bother me, because they are technically wrong and provide no useful information.

- Jtoby

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I'm not singling you out, but this came up in another thread where someone gave me negative rep for reading WAY too deep into quite benign statements that should be clear as to be read as expressionary. I had to ask Ludachris to step in and address that situation as it wasn't intentional, I couldn't defend myself, and others didn't think it was fair.

You know, this bothers me: taking each and every statement as literal no matter the context. When I say "I love how the car handles now with almost zero roll", that is not a technical statement. I didn't endorse tokico illuminas + prokit as the end-all solution for a car handling like it's on rails. What I did allude to was, in my situation, the combo has produced results that is night and day to what I had going before. As a daily driver on normal road conditions (30 ~ 80 mph), yes my car has almost zero body roll for changing lanes and taking normal turns at speed (I'm not drifting around 90* corners, etc). Must I attach a disclaimer to the most benign of statements? Because I don't care if you take a Ferrari Enzo or a formula 1 car, you can produce roll out of ANY suspension setup if you take a hard enough turn. They don't handle like they are on rails either! But this is common sense.

Another example is when I say I get "mad torque steer" now. That is an expression and not a technical statement, which is why it would be open to interpretation. I do not have to fight pulling to the right with both arms thanks to power steering. However, it is much more than before the suspension was put in, and I suggested this was due to the way I adjusted my suspension. As I mentioned, Tokico specifically warned about this in its documentation for oversteer and understeer. If I set both front and rear to the same and a softer setting, this would probably reduce some. Very easily tested, I just haven't got around to it. Besides, I'm more interested in reducing straight line weight transfer.

The only technical info I provided was that regarding the RRE camber kits. I have the adjustment sheets from a laser alignment system. I should have taken pics and done a product review before putting them in, because I wanted to warn people with camber as far from spec as mine was, that the camber kit alone may not be sufficient. Especially since the RRE camber kit only adjusts about 80% what they claim. While the rear can just add spacers, the front are only adjustable +/- 1 deg (0.8* in reality). Therefore, they may want to consider the RRE control arms that allow more leeway here, but are quite a bit more expensive. This is important because RRE techs and their website seem to suggest that prokits only require an alignment and not necessarily a camber kit because the drop is supposedly so soft (not true, at least in my case). This has also been suggested by several members here who have said camber kits aren't needed for 1" drops on 2Gs -- talk about a blanket statement that misled people like me!

I appreciate any and all advice from people more knowledgable from me, just look at my post history. I am respectful, humble, and thankful. But please give me and other readers some credit. Most of us can distinguish between what is presented as factual technical information versus statements made as expressions in a context not to be taken literal. Again, not pointing you out in particular but please consider this. Thanks.

Disclaimer: Anyone about to run out and buy the same suspension setup as me, please don't expect your car to handle like a Six Flags roller coaster car!! - j/k

 

[wret]

You know, this bothers me: taking each and every statement as literal no matter the context.

What? Literality in a technical forum?

It was made pretty clear that testimony in the belly-pan case has been concluded. Let it go.

Jtoby made it perfectly clear that his statement was sarcastic (although factual). Sure, exaggeration has its place, but only when couched in enough facts to keep the meaning clear.

 

[jtmcinder]

Also not singling you out, but let me explain using an example.

Another example is when I say I get "mad torque steer" now. That is an expression and not a technical statement, which is why it would be open to interpretation.

Here's the problem. When someone searches for "torque steer," they will find your post. If your problem isn't actually torque steer, but is caused by a suspension issue, then your post could mislead them, even though they did exactly what we have been begging people to do: i.e., search. That's why the loose use of technical terms is a problem. Maybe it isn't causing too much grief in this particular thread, but it could easily cause grief to someone else, down the road (as it were).

So, please, don't say "torque steer" when all that you're sure about is that the car pulls to one side under acceleration. If you know that it's torque steer or want to ask if it's torque steer, then, by all means, use the term, so the thread will pop up in a search. But, please, don't use technical terms loosely.

Note: besides bushings, another potential cause of pseudo-torque-steer is wildly mismatching corner weights, maybe caused by misplacement of adjustable spring perches. I've seen this happen when a guy went medieval on his GC sleeves in an attempt to get a 2G to sit level.

- Jtoby

ps. that "guy" was me

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I'm still picking up the jargon so I think sometimes I may not be using the terms 100% correctly. I thought what I had was torque steer (still do). I didn't have much before the suspension install and I did after. Those were the only components that changed.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steering

Torque steering is an effect in front wheel drive cars caused by large amounts of torque affecting steering in such a way as to make the front wheels "squirm" (oscillate) from side to side under heavy acceleration.

This effect is noticeable to the driver by the steering wheel being tugged back and forth by the wheels.

This effect can be engineered out of front wheel drive cars, using techniques such as double wishbone suspension or advanced multi-link suspension systems.

Torque steer is mainly caused by uneven half-shafts between the transaxle and wheels. When excessive torque is applied, one shaft flexes more than the other, thus causing one wheel to momentarily spin slower than the other. This causes a steering effect. Ford engineered a simple method of eliminating (or at least reducing) torque steer by expanding the transaxle a little further to equalize the lengths of the halfshafts found on front wheel drive cars.

Torque steer can also be caused by the steering axis of the wheels not passing through the contact point of the tyre. IE. When steering the car stationary, the contact point of the tyre on the ground should not move. However most cars have an offset on the wheels, therefore when you turn the steering, the front hub assembly rotates on the bottom ball joint, but the front wheels move backwards and forwards slightly on the ground. This slight movement is emphasised by the power of the car when driving, due to the steering assembly and struts being under a load. Therefore when power is applied to the wheels and one wheel hits a bump, the offset of the wheel will amplify this and the car will pull towards that side.

Any car with a high torque output (not less than 210Nm/155lbft) engine and front wheel drive may exhibit some degree of torque steer.

Excessive torque steer may be caused by damage to suspension/steering components, tire defects, etc.

An example of a car with torque steer is the front wheel drive Volvo S60 with the T5 engine. (Nm>300) The all wheel drive version does not have noticable torque steer, nor do the versions with less torquey engines.

I'm fwd, 268 lb-ft, and just had full suspension done. This thread is about suspension so anyone searching for "torque steer" should know to read in that context. But I don't have side-to-side oscillation so maybe I don't have technical torque steer.

I haven't posted much since I joined almost 3 years ago because I listen (read) more than I talk (write) when it comes to subjects I'm not an expert in. I'll just go back to reading from here on out. Probably best for everyone.