I want to drop my car and keep a smooth ride...

[tsi-rican]

My bro bought a new car so I am getting his 95 Tsi. He originally had it dropped but he didn't like it because he could feel every little bump in the road. It wasn't smooth at all so he put stock springs back in. I loved the way it looked when it was dropped but I sure don't want it feeling like it did either. Are there any brands of springs/shocks/struts or combination of them that will allow me to drop the car and still keep a smooth ride? Or would I have to sacrifice one for the other?

 

[khsdm]

well if your bro got cheap springs your gonna get cheap springs and expect the same out of the ride, i have h & r spring and they seem to ride fine for me, its the quality of steel that is used like the spring i have are made of german steel and no one really complains about the spring saging, if any one has well i stand corrected but i think there quality springs for a good price. just my opinion

 

[tsi-rican]

ok, good. It's time for a drop then! (once I figure out the springs to buy).

 

[tsi-rican]

I replaced the struts recently but they are only stock specs. Do I need to buy coilovers with struts or would just getting coilovers be good enough?

 

[Tevenor]

Everyone repeat after me:


SHOCKS ARE WHAT ARE IMPORTANT FOR A SMOOTH AND TECHNICALLY SOUND RIDE, NOT SPRINGS.....

Because this is a really important point, lets do it again.


SHOCKS ARE WHAT ARE IMPORTANT FOR A SMOOTH AND TECHNICALLY SOUND RIDE, NOT SPRINGS.....


Springs are just wound pieces of metal. The shocks are what really make or break the ride.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

So your saying I should get some better springs

 

[Tevenor]

So your saying I should get some better springs

Where is the :finger: emoticon when you need it?

 

[tsi-rican]

umm....thanks. I just wanted to know if just coilovers would be good enough to drop it though. But I should probably make sure the shocks are good too since you mentioned it.

 

[mitsuclipsegsx]

i have koni red non adjustable shocks and struts brand new and i want to lower it w/ either H&r springs 2inches or a different kind of H&r thats lowers 1.7 now do i need F&R camber kits???? I heard only if i lower it more then 1.75 I would need them, so i would be ok w/ the type of h&r that lowers it 1.7?

 

[tsi-rican]

Im not a car tech wiz but I am pretty sure the camber always needs to be adjusted when you drop a car, no matter how much. I'm not sure if you need a kit for it though.

 

[cait sith]

Im not a car tech wiz but I am pretty sure the camber always needs to be adjusted when you drop a car, no matter how much. I'm not sure if you need a kit for it though.

That's toe, not camber.

 

[tsi-rican]

oh ok.

 

[mitsuclipsegsx]

what do u mean by""That's toe, not camber.""

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

i got some h&r springs, they rode great, for sale if you want them, only used them for a week. 140 shipped, they cost me 230.

 

[tsi-rican]

I wouldn't mind getting them but I didn't plan on it for a while. maybe in some months. When I am ready though I can just pm you or something to see if you still have them.

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

If you want a "smooth" or "soft" ride, then you'll be using the stock springs. Although simultaneously, since your ride height is decreased, your suspension travel is decreased. Thus, making it important for an increase in spring rate. (Spring rate often must be increased to some degree upon lowering a car, since suspension travel is decreased. This would slow the "bottoming-out" of the suspension travel.)

Imagine stock springs which are cut and coupled with stock shocks. During bump travel, the shock will bottom-out and THEN you will feel every bump in the road, since now the spring is the chassis structure. This is also known as "riding the bump stops."

If you still insist on having your car lowered, but "ride like a caddy" then the best way I see doing this, is by using Koni Yellow, adjustable shocks. The Koni yellow, has a shortened shock body, and shorter suspension travel, resulting in a lower than stock vehicle stance. For springs, you'll need a spring compressor, to compress your stock springs to install them on the Koni's.
Also, with the Koni yellow, considering the stock low spring rate, and reduced ride height, and reduced suspension travel, you will have the adjustability on the shocks to gradually make the car handle better. (But for your purposes, initially set the shock on it's softest setting.)

After you have done this, bring the car to have an alignment. The camber and toe will have changed on all 4 wheels. The reason why all four wheels has changed camber and toe, is because the suspension linkages, are now in a position which was used in cornering hard, thus the negative camber on the outside front wheels needed to flatten the tires' contact patch upon body roll and weight transfer.
When you look at an unmoving car which is lowered, but has no alignment corrections, you are looking at the position of the car's wheels during dynamic turning, heavy body roll, and suspension compression, when the car was using stock static ride height. The car is using stock dynamic suspension positions, for static (meaning still) suspension positions.
Put 2 and 2 together, and you'll realize this is a bad.

Also, because of the Akerman effect, the toe is changed as the car is cornering hard, due to each tire taking different paths. (The outside wheel traveling a longer distance than the inside wheel.)
Imagine a circle within a circle. The outside circle represents the path of the outside wheel, and the inside circle represents the path of the inside wheel during a turn. When measuring the distance each wheel has taken, the outside wheel has travel considerably farther.

I hope this helps in clarifying why an alignment is needed afterwards, and increased spring rate is needed upon lowering.

-Andrew D.

 

[jtmcinder]

If you still insist on having your car lowered, but "ride like a caddy" then the best way I see doing this, is by using Koni Yellow, adjustable shocks. The Koni yellow, has a shortened shock body, and shorter suspension travel, resulting in a lower than stock vehicle stance.

The above is utter nonsense. The location of the spring perch on a Koni Yellow is in the exact same location as on a stock shock, so your ride height is not changed at all. Because of this, combined with the shorter-than-stock bodies of Koni Yellows, you actually gain suspension travel.

- Jtoby

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

The above is utter nonsense. The location of the spring perch on a Koni Yellow is in the exact same location as on a stock shock, so your ride height is not changed at all. Because of this, combined with the shorter-than-stock bodies of Koni Yellows, you actually gain suspension travel.

- Jtoby

Yup. You're right. After doing a little more research myself, I just realized this. I eat my words. But other than that, everything else I've said, is pretty much accurate.
What do you think Jtoby?

 

[mitsuclipsegsx]

GILZTSIAWD
i got some h&r springs, they rode great, for sale if you want them, only used them for a week. 140 shipped, they cost me 230.



i'll take them email me or somen [email protected]

 

[tsi-rican]

hey thanks for all the info. Now, how would I know if aftermarket springs had higher than stock spring rate? Or are there any brand of shocks (instead of Koni) that do have a shorter body?

 

[yoshimitsuspeed]

If you are getting the springs new you should be able to talk to the distributor or the manufacturer and they should be able to help you decide on the proper springs for the use you intend.

 

[jtmcinder]

But other than that, everything else I've said, is pretty much accurate.

Well, I'm not 100% happy with the idea that a lowered car has static alignment equal to a non-lowered car in a hard corner, since, in a corner, only the outside is compressed, while the inside is actually in jounce, but given that it's the outside that really matters, I didn't say anything.

Also, it's not the Ackermann Effect; Ackermann is something that is designed into the steering to compensate for the different radii of the inside and outside wheels, but that, too, isn't a big deal. However, a 2G has "under-Ackermann" steering (i.e., the difference in how much the wheels turns is not enough, so, effectively, toe-in is added as the turn sharpens), which is one reason why static toe-out helps when autocrossing.

- Jtoby

 

[NitrousBob]

Or to put it simple the ackerman stuff is where your wheel pivots around the ball joint.. and the amount of scrub you have when you turn.. wheels that pivot on center of the ball joint tend to have the least amount of scrub. I got some rates for ya off prostreetonline

H&R Race Springs (AWD and FWD have the same rate):

Front - 430
Rear - 260
Eibach ProKits:
Front: 330
Rear: 160
Suspension Techniques:
Front: 200
Rear: 160
Stock (Non Turbo/Auto Tranny/Manual Tranny):
OEM Stock 1G FWD
Front: 134
Rear: 128.8
OEM Stock 1G AWD
Front: 146
Rear: 140
95-96 OEM Stock 2G AWD
Front: 265
Rear: 162 (+/- 8)
97-99 OEM Stock 2G AWD
Front: 246
Rear: 151
95-96 OEM Stock 2G FWD
Front: 246
Rear: 173
97-99 OEM Stock 2G FWD
Front: 246
Rear: 151

if that helps you decide... I personally am trying out a set of intrax lowering springs.. They seem to have a decent ride with new stock shocks and struts to go along. I put 1000 miles a week on my eclipse so I am not looking to break my shit... I had some of those ebay coilovers and they lasted amazingly but had an EXTREMELY harsh ride with stock shocks and springs.. they were like R350lbs and F450lbs but it cornered great and didnt squat when I took off and only cost 40 dollars. It was fun for a while.

 

[jtmcinder]

Or to put it simple the ackerman stuff is where your wheel pivots around the ball joint.. and the amount of scrub you have when you turn.. wheels that pivot on center of the ball joint tend to have the least amount of scrub.

Um, no. Scrub radius and Ackermann are completely different things.

- Jtoby

 

[mitsuclipsegsx]

to GILZTSIAWD check ur message i wont those springs whats goen on??????