terribly confused about suspension

[JiveMasterT]

its getting nice out and i want to get a new suspension for my car that will allow me to lower it when its nice out and the potholes are filled, but also allow me to raise the car back to stock height for winter driving. i don't want to spend more than $700 and the cheaper the better. what do i need?

edit...
before the bashing, ive tried the search and read a lot of stuff which is why i am confused about what i need...

 

[PaulPDX]

Without spending more than $700, I don't think you can get a complete setup that'll allow you to lower and raise (coilover).

Even if you with ground control... the price will be more than $700.

 

[JiveMasterT]

what would you say is the least i can spend on this sort of thing? do you have any suggestions?

 

['96_Talon_TSi]

Ground control coils and koni/tokico shocks- ~900 or so depending where you shop around

Tien basic damper coilover system- ~700 or so.

Tien SS damper system ~900-~1100 (depending where you go)

Looks like youre going to need at least 700-1G for a good adjutsable suspension setup.

 

[Doug99RS]

Not only will you have the expense of the suspension that provides this ride height change... but every time you raise or lower the suspension you will be changing camber and toe settings. Meaning... you'll need an alignment everytime you change the ride height if you want your tires to last as well. You will destroy your tires by bypassing the alignment and that will cost you alot more money than a simple four wheel alignment.
Doug

 

[JiveMasterT]

Originally posted by Doug99RS
Not only will you have the expense of the suspension that provides this ride height change... but every time you raise or lower the suspension you will be changing camber and toe settings. Meaning... you'll need an alignment everytime you change the ride height if you want your tires to last as well. You will destroy your tires by bypassing the alignment and that will cost you alot more money than a simple four wheel alignment.
Doug

yeah but the change will only be once a year and if i want to keep toying with it, i can get my alignment "insured" but the local shop. i will just bs them and tell them they didnt get it right.

 

[Doug99RS]

So basically you're going to be a jack-ass and stick it to a repair shop who did quality work for you? Being one of those good repair techs, I hope your shit falls apart.
Doug

 

[JiveMasterT]

Originally posted by Doug99RS
So basically you're going to be a jack-ass and stick it to a repair shop who did quality work for you? Being one of those good repair techs, I hope your shit falls apart.
Doug

tell me how to do an alignment myself and i will do it. in the mean time im going to have to deal with my powers of social engineering until my wallet has got something else for me to work with. besides, i know one of the guys who works at sears and he can probably just align it for me for free. im not going to go rip off some local garage, too many of my friends own / work at places like that and i know its a tough job.

sorry if i seemed like a jackass, but hey, maybe i am.

 

[Doug99RS]

If you want to start another thread for all to debate the "powers of social engineering" then feel free to PM me a link and we'll continue the discussion there.

As for the alignment hopefully your friends will be willing to give you the hook up so you won't have to give a good guy a bad reputation.
D

 

[MNGSX]

I got used GC's for around $200 and new KYB's for around $300 shipped..

The KYB's can get slammed a bit and still not bottom out if you raise the front bearing plate...

Therefore I'm making my own front shock mount...

I also picked up a ES bushing set for $70 that was only missing the shifter bushings... I have symborski in there anyway...

If you can find used Koni & the matching GC's it will be easier...

I've been plenty busy on other stuff... Sometime this week I will have it in.. Doing all the bushings, installing the springs and shocks and pressing in and out the bushings will take some time...

I also got a used ingalls camber kit pretty reasonable...

Use the "parts for sale" function...

 

[JiveMasterT]

Originally posted by Doug99RS
If you want to start another thread for all to debate the "powers of social engineering" then feel free to PM me a link and we'll continue the discussion there.

As for the alignment hopefully your friends will be willing to give you the hook up so you won't have to give a good guy a bad reputation.
D

heh, as for the powers of social engineering... im a n00b, i get what i can. and i dont want to give a good guy a bad rep, so dont worry about that. i really am a nice guy, i just came off like a d*ck. my bad.

 

[wret]

What's the difference between a "summer" setup and a "winter" setup? An inch maybe? Does anyone seriously think going up or down an inch between seasons is going to require realignment?

 

[PaulPDX]

Well, ask yourself this... which is more costly.

An alignment job or a new set of tires.

 

[Doug99RS]

Yes, 1 inch will make a difference. Just look at the difference between stock ride height and the average 1.3" drop. It changes the car quite a bit in handling. Now the technical aspect of a increase or decrease in ride height will also make a considerable change. You've got to remember that "Looks" is not the only difference that modifications make to the car.
Doug

 

[jtmcinder]

Originally posted by wret
What's the difference between a "summer" setup and a "winter" setup? An inch maybe? Does anyone seriously think going up or down an inch between seasons is going to require realignment?

Oh, man, this is a disappointing post. You normally have your act together.

Get a set of suspension maps for our cars. Look at the bump-toe curves, especially in the rear. Of course you need an alignment when you switch from summer to winter, at least if you run a stock setup in the winter and a decent setup in the summer.

Also, many people don't just change heights across seasons. For example, I have to remove the spacers behind the upper rear arms and play with the eccentric bushings in the front. So I have no choice at all. Snow tires suffer damage (on dry roads) from excessive toe even faster than summer-only tires. And it's not just run-of-the-mill wear ... they chunk between the sipes.

- Jtoby

 

[wret]

Hey, that wasn't a rhetorical question. I was hoping to solicit some feedback. Sheesh.

I hope my rep isn't too tainted.

 

[wret]

How do you adjust rear toe in anyway?

 

[Doug99RS]

If the spyder is like the rest of the 2g's, there's an exentric bushing or bolt in the lower control arm. It's got a 17mm nut and bolt head. You break loose the nut and then rotate both the nut and bolt heads at the same time in the same direction. Clockwise will move it one way and counter-clockwise will go the other way. Pretty simple but the settings don't always hold when you tighten them down so multiple attempts are normally in order. For me at least.
Doug

 

[Defiant]

Ooookay. Shall we continue with a conversation here, or are we going to play Character Assassins?

The lock is up to you.

Keep in mind my key is awfully itchy.

 

[jtmcinder]

Originally posted by Defiant
Ooookay. Shall we continue with a conversation here, or are we going to play Character Assassins?

The lock is up to you.

Keep in mind my key is awfully itchy.

Relax! When a couple of the "regulars" yank each other a little bit, you ought to be happy. This is the sort of thing that keeps us from ripping the head off some idiot who asks for the fifth time in 24 hours if he can wedge some 20" wheels on his car and still slam it, all for $120 a corner and have it ride like a Caddy.

A good cop knows the people on his beat.

- Jtoby

 

[JiveMasterT]

Originally posted by jtmcinder
Relax! When a couple of the "regulars" yank each other a little bit, you ought to be happy. This is the sort of thing that keeps us from ripping the head off some idiot who asks for the fifth time in 24 hours if he can wedge some 20" wheels on his car and still slam it, all for $120 a corner and have it ride like a Caddy.

A good cop knows the people on his beat.

- Jtoby

i am confused... is that about me? did i ask a stupid question?

basically my original question would have been what do i need to have the adjustability feature? do i need new shocks and springs? can i use the stock springs? do i have to get coil overs?

 

[wret]

Originally posted by JiveMasterT
i am confused... is that about me? did i ask a stupid question?

Nah, that was me.

I don't think you will find a suspension that is designed to have much range of height adjustment. Sure there is the Ground Control dude out there by his car, raising and lowering quickly and easily at a whim, but as you can see by the passionate responses to my question, changing height even a relatively small amount requires alignment adjustments.

 

[jtmcinder]

Originally posted by JiveMasterT
i am confused... is that about me? did i ask a stupid question?

Sorry. No, you didn't.

- Jtoby

 

[JiveMasterT]

i am just looking to drop my car about an inch for the summer, then raise it back to stock for winter... is that not possible?

 

[jtmcinder]

Yeah, it's possible, but consider this alternative:

Keep your stock set-up for the winter. Nice, soft springs and low damping, which are what's best for snow traction.

Buy a complete second set-up for the summer. Stiffer springs. Good shocks. Etc.

Swap back and forth by season.

Yes, this costs more (since you have to have two sets of upper plates, etc.), but you don't have to play with spring compressors twice a year and your good shocks aren't exposed to salt, etc.

Plus, when it's time to get the good stuff worked on (e.g., have the shocks rebuilt or shortened), you have a complete second set to swap back to. (This has turned out to be critical for me, since I don't expect the good set-up to be complete until May, sniff.)

- Jtoby

ps. the above also argues for building a suspension based on the stock front sway-bar, as swapping this bar is a total PITA.