Wire tucking around intake manifold: what can and can't be deleted? (Pt.2)

[ishnish]

So ever since I removed my whole EGR system, I think I've gotten addicted to clean engine bays and don't want to stop there . I love that all the junk around my intake manifold is cleaned up but I know I can definitely do more.

So I before I continue onto my questions, I have read up about this but I just want to make sure as some things were unclear. Also, I provided a picture as a reference to my questions. The colored numbers represent the same colored numbers that relate to my questions just to make it easier for some folks who follow .

1. What can I get rid of and what has to stay? Of course this applies to the stock intake manifold for a 2g.

2. I've though about removing my MDP sensor. If I've removed my EGR system I would assume that this is okay since it's only use would be to monitor that the EGR system is working properly. So would it be okay to?

3. I've also thought about relocating the power transistor to the firewall. To do this, I've read that I have to extend some wires. Is this true? If so, is there anything else I'd need besides some wire and a soldering tool?

4. Anyway I can relocate the coil pack? I'm sure I need it but I'm not sure. If it can be deleted, even better .

5. I know I can run the injector connector wires underneath the fuel rail, but I've also read that some members have actually turned the injectors 180* so that the connectors face down and look much cleaner that way. Could I turn them? Or is my best option just to route the wires under the fuel rail?

6. Lastly, I know I can loop my throttle cable underneath my intake manifold but I'm not sure how. I know it sound stupid, but can I disconnect it from anywhere? I don't think I should disconnect it from the firewall but I also don't know if I can disconnect it from where it routes behind the intake manifold either. Do I just leave it connected on both sides and just try moving it around until I get it under the intake manifold?

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I think that covers everything around the intake manifold for now. If there's anything else I can do or that I can add to the list, please let me know.

Hopefully this helps others along the way as well.

Thanks!

 

[snowborder714]

1. None of the stuff you have labeled you can get rid of.

2. You can't just remove the sensor as it'd be a boost leak. I'd recommend picking up a MDP sensor adapter (RRE's Eclipse New Products) and then picking up a MAP sensor to log boost

3. You should be able to do this without lengthening wires if you pull them far enough out of the loom. I did it with mine.

4. You can relocate it wherever you want. You just have to make sure your wires are long enough to reach, or you purchase longer ones. No, you can't delete it.

5. You can turn them down.

6. It's easiest to disconnect from the throttle body end. Remove the end from the throttle cable bracket and remove the two bolts holding it to the intake manifold. Lift the bracket straight up and then push the cable (part that used to clip on top of fuel rail) straight back towards the firewall and then down. Then bolt bracket back on loosely, clip end into throttle cable bracket, and adjust bracket properly before tightening bolts down.

 

[ishnish]

2. Wouldn't a MAP sensor be pointless if I have a boost gauge to log boost? Or am I off here? And from all of these guys I see running aftermarket intake manifolds, it doesn't seem to show them having a MDP sensor at all. Is the location of where it's mounted different or something? Cause it looks as if they don't even run one. I know I said this is all for my stock intake mani but for future reference when I upgrade, would I still need a MDP sensor?

3. Even better! Thanks

4. Gotcha, thank you.

5. As in turning the injectors 180* I assume?

6. Ahh I see now. So it can be disconnected. Thanks. No need to worry about adjusting the cable itself correct? That was my main concern which is why I was afraid to disconnect it from either side (intake of firewall).

Snowborder, when you did all of this, I'm sure you maybe removed some of the wire loom from these wires to lengthen and such correct?

 

[snowborder714]

What boost gauge do you have that will allow you to log boost? I'd guess an AEM with a brass sensor (not stainless steel). If so, the brass sensor isn't the most accurate, but would be able to give you a rough idea of what your boost is. If it's something else, let me know.

The MDP sensor can't easily be mounted to an aftermarket intake manifold sensor. Even still, you can't mount the EGR valve, so it'd be useless. It's usually just turned off via ECMlink.

Yes, just rotate the injectors 180°.

You adjust the throttle cable tension by adjusting the bracket that's bolted to the intake manifold. You want to tension it enough so there's no slack, but not too much that it starts to open the throttle plate.

Yes, I removed a fair amount of the loom/tape to do my "tuck". It looks like crap (especially compared to my brother's), but works. Someday I'll get around to removing all unnecessary wires and doing a full tuck.

 

[ishnish]

I'm sorry I meant just monitor boost. Basically what a simple boost gauge would do. Logging would be something totally different I guess. Sorry about that. So I guess the purpose of the AEM is to be able to log boost and view it via ECMLINK.

Well if the EGR valve is deleted, wouldn't there be no need for an MDP sensor for an aftermarket intake manifold? I would think that most of them that are made don't have a spot to mount an MDP sensor so it just means you can delete it period. Idk how EGR valve was brought up but it kinda' threw me off. Sorry if I'm confusing you here cause I'm confused myself .

Oh so looks like I have to adjust the throttle cable after all . And do be able to monitor if I'm doing this correctly, I'm guessing I will have to remove my intercooler piping as well.. Is it easy enough to monitor if the throttle plate starts to open with the human eye or is there more to it than that?

My plan is to do a full tuck as well. I'm a lot more confident now that I've messed with wires a bit and recently learned to solder and what not. Did a lot of reading and I'm just wondering it if can be done with the motor still in the car or if it has to be removed entirely.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Well im regretting my wire tuck now because I had to sell my smim and 75mm tb... Now my crank plug (or timing plug...whatever its called) is about 4 inches to short. I had everything mounted below the smim and now its all back on top.

 

[snowborder714]

I'm sorry I meant just monitor boost. Basically what a simple boost gauge would do. Logging would be something totally different I guess. Sorry about that. So I guess the purpose of the AEM is to be able to log boost and view it via ECMLINK.

You have two options with boost:
1. View it (via boost gauge or EBC)
2. Log it (via sensor input to ECU via logging software)

I'm not sure what you have, but it should fall into one of those categories. I personally don't recommend the AEM True Boost, as it just doesn't seem worth it to me for the lower resolution sensor. You can pick up an Omni or GM MAP for far less, and they're much better.

Well if the EGR valve is deleted, wouldn't there be no need for an MDP sensor for an aftermarket intake manifold? I would think that most of them that are made don't have a spot to mount an MDP sensor so it just means you can delete it period. Idk how EGR valve was brought up but it kinda' threw me off. Sorry if I'm confusing you here cause I'm confused myself .

Correct - no EGR valve means no need for MDP sensor. You'll only find the MDP port on the 2g manifolds, so even if you switch to an Evo 3/RVR manifold, you won't have a place for it. Yes, you could delete it now, but if you just remove it, you'll see there's a small hole in the intake manifold to feed the sensor. So this would become a boost leak. As of now, you could unplug it and uncheck the box in link and notice no difference. That's all I'm trying to get at

Oh so looks like I have to adjust the throttle cable after all . And do be able to monitor if I'm doing this correctly, I'm guessing I will have to remove my intercooler piping as well.. Is it easy enough to monitor if the throttle plate starts to open with the human eye or is there more to it than that?

Yes, you do. If you don't want to remove the intercooler pipe, what I would do is put pressure on the throttle cable bracket to keep the throttle plate closed, pull on the throttle cable bracket until it's snug, and have someone else bolt it down while you put pressure on both of those. You'll basically be making sure it stays closed while setting it, instead of watching for it to open. You don't need to put a lot of pressure on each - just until you take up the slack in the cable.

 

[gixrman]

If you really want to get 2 out of the way take the intake off, take it to a welding, fabrication shop have them cut out the MDP switch bung and weld it back in on the bottom side. Same with the nipples. Just an idea.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

As mentioned above, just rotating the injectors 180* will address the injector harness's.

Also, you can remove the throttle cable and reverse it, to where it comes out of the firewall facing the driver side, and it makes it easy to be hidden/loop under the brake master.

Notice the direction of the throttle cable off the firewall, it makes it virtually invisible.

The second picture is how it's routed stock

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Injectors

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[ishnish]

You have two options with boost:
1. View it (via boost gauge or EBC)
2. Log it (via sensor input to ECU via logging software)

I'm not sure what you have, but it should fall into one of those categories. I personally don't recommend the AEM True Boost, as it just doesn't seem worth it to me for the lower resolution sensor. You can pick up an Omni or GM MAP for far less, and they're much better.



Correct - no EGR valve means no need for MDP sensor. You'll only find the MDP port on the 2g manifolds, so even if you switch to an Evo 3/RVR manifold, you won't have a place for it. Yes, you could delete it now, but if you just remove it, you'll see there's a small hole in the intake manifold to feed the sensor. So this would become a boost leak. As of now, you could unplug it and uncheck the box in link and notice no difference. That's all I'm trying to get at



Yes, you do. If you don't want to remove the intercooler pipe, what I would do is put pressure on the throttle cable bracket to keep the throttle plate closed, pull on the throttle cable bracket until it's snug, and have someone else bolt it down while you put pressure on both of those. You'll basically be making sure it stays closed while setting it, instead of watching for it to open. You don't need to put a lot of pressure on each - just until you take up the slack in the cable.

Okay that explains it. I have just a boost gauge. Prosport Premium Halos to be exact. Well if I do go with any, I'd probably go with one of the two you suggested. Idk which one is better but Ill do some research on it.

Okay I see now. I can't remove my MDP sensor completely because of a boost leak of course. However, I can unplug the sensor if I wanted since I deleted my EGR valve. Gotcha' .

About that throttle plate, sounds good I just have to see where the throttle cable bracket is that you speak of . If it's a two man job, it might be a bit more difficult for me.

Thanks

If you really want to get 2 out of the way take the intake off, take it to a welding, fabrication shop have them cut out the MDP switch bung and weld it back in on the bottom side. Same with the nipples. Just an idea.

Or just weld all of the nipple and bungs (that I don't need) shut . Great idea I never thought about that .

As mentioned above, just rotating the injectors 180* will address the injector harness's.

Also, you can remove the throttle cable and reverse it, to where it comes out of the firewall facing the driver side, and it makes it easy to be hidden/loop under the brake master.

Notice the direction of the throttle cable off the firewall, it makes it virtually invisible.

Wow .. That's where I hope to be at some day. That throttle cable and injector rotation makes a HUGE difference! Thanks EclipseOwner95!

 

[snowborder714]

Keep in mind that engine bay pictured is a 1g and the throttle cable angle isn't the same on a 2g.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Keep in mind that engine bay pictured is a 1g and the throttle cable angle isn't the same on a 2g.

Indeed, I thought I put a disclaimer saying it was a 1g, but considering the throttle cable does a similar loop like the 1g, I'm inclined to believe that it can be reversed. But I have no hard evidence. I'm sure he'll let us know.

 

[ishnish]

Aww that's a kill for me hopefully the 2g is different I haven't checked yet. Snowborder, would you happen to know?

 

[ishnish]

So I finally got about an hour after work today to work on my tucking. Snowborder, I tried accomplishing most of what you told me but ran into some complications.

Okay so firstly, I removed the MDP sensor (I mean the wire that connects to the sensor, not the actual sensor). I figured this would be okay for now.

Secondly, I haven't removed the power transistor and relocated it to the firewall just yet. To do this, I think I would have to remove the fuel rail correct? Would I have to remove the hose coming from the FPR just so I can loosen up the fuel rail enough?

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It looks like there are only two screws and a 10 or 12 mm bolt that I have to undo but I'm not entirely sure yet. Is it safe to undo all the wire loom from the area in the ^ above pic? Idk if the heat will damage the wires or not. Also, when I do relocate it, exactly where on the firewall were you able to mount it to? My firewall looks super cramped! I don't plan to remove my A/C either.

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My firewall looks terribly cramped as you can see.

Next is my coil pack, It seems to be connected to some piece of metal but looks like it can slide right off. I pulled but didn't wanna pull any harder than I already was cause I was afraid I'd break it. Will it just slide right off or what?

Now injectors. I hope it's okay that I just turned the injectors while they were still plugged in. I didn't pull them out or turn them because I was able to easily twist them and figured that would be okay. Initially, this was so I didn't have to pull the fuel rail off because it was getting very dark. But now I think I might have to pull it off anyway for the power transistor. Well anyways, the injector nearest the FPR doesn't seem to have room to turn a full 180*. Do they HAVE to be turned exactly 180*? Cause as you can see from this pic, I was able to turn the last injector maybe 160-170* because there's a bolt in the way:

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I might only be able to rotate it like 120* just cause the plug has the retainer in the way. Anyways, the bolt belongs to the bracket that seems to hold all the ends of the spark plug wires:

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Rights underneath that wire is the bolt that holds the bracket that holds all the wires, so when I turn the injectors, it hits the bolt. I don't know if I can remove the whole bracket but I doubt I can. So basically, can I just rotate them any amount I need to? I'm probably over-thinking this but hey this is my first car.

Lastly, I got my throttle cable complication. I know you said I can disconnect the throttle body side but idk which bracket you're referring to. Is it anywhere near this area?:

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And I'm guessing these are the two bolts you said to remove that are holding it to the intake manifold:

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I already unbolted the area right on top of the fuel rail but haven't messed with anything else yet as I'm afraid to mess something up.

 

[snowborder714]

Secondly, I haven't removed the power transistor and relocated it to the firewall just yet. To do this, I think I would have to remove the fuel rail correct? Would I have to remove the hose coming from the FPR just so I can loosen up the fuel rail enough?

I don't remember having to remove the fuel rail, but it's been so long since I removed one. If you do have to, remember to relieve the pressure first. You should be able to just unbolt it and lift it up a bit, which would hopefully be enough.

Is it safe to undo all the wire loom from the area in the ^ above pic? Idk if the heat will damage the wires or not. Also, when I do relocate it, exactly where on the firewall were you able to mount it to? My firewall looks super cramped! I don't plan to remove my A/C either.

You could remove the factory wire loom, but I'd then replace it with something, even if it's electrical tape. I don't like bare wires just hanging out.

Relocate it to wherever you want to and have the space. There's no "right" location.

Next is my coil pack, It seems to be connected to some piece of metal but looks like it can slide right off. I pulled but didn't wanna pull any harder than I already was cause I was afraid I'd break it. Will it just slide right off or what?

I believe it's screwed/bolted down to the bracket it's sitting on.

Now injectors. I hope it's okay that I just turned the injectors while they were still plugged in. I didn't pull them out or turn them because I was able to easily twist them and figured that would be okay. Initially, this was so I didn't have to pull the fuel rail off because it was getting very dark. But now I think I might have to pull it off anyway for the power transistor. Well anyways, the injector nearest the FPR doesn't seem to have room to turn a full 180*. Do they HAVE to be turned exactly 180*? Cause as you can see from this pic, I was able to turn the last injector maybe 160-170* because there's a bolt in the way:

Ya, just turning them should be fine.

They can be facing whatever direction you want/need. If you only can turn 178°, that's fine.

Lastly, I got my throttle cable complication. I know you said I can disconnect the throttle body side but idk which bracket you're referring to. Is it anywhere near this area?

Yup, the throttle cable bracket is what you have pictured there. You'll have to rotate it by hand towards the intake manifold to get you slack on the throttle cable. Then you'll slide the end of the cable out the hole you see in the bracket.

And I'm guessing these are the two bolts you said to remove that are holding it to the intake manifold

Yup.

 

[ishnish]

I don't remember having to remove the fuel rail, but it's been so long since I removed one. If you do have to, remember to relieve the pressure first. You should be able to just unbolt it and lift it up a bit, which would hopefully be enough.

I removed it but didn't know how to relieve the pressure and I think that's what made fuel come out of the fuel rail when lifting it up. Worst part though is it got inside the retainer part of 2 of the injector plugs/wires am I screwed?

You could remove the factory wire loom, but I'd then replace it with something, even if it's electrical tape. I don't like bare wires just hanging out.

Relocate it to wherever you want to and have the space. There's no "right" location.

Idk how you managed to relocate it to the firewall without having to extend it man . I guess I have to cut more of the loom.

I believe it's screwed/bolted down to the bracket it's sitting on.

You were right. I was able to remove it that way.

Ya, just turning them should be fine.

They can be facing whatever direction you want/need. If you only can turn 178°, that's fine.

Awesome thank you, I just hope I can actually still use the plugs that go into them

Yup, the throttle cable bracket is what you have pictured there. You'll have to rotate it by hand towards the intake manifold to get you slack on the throttle cable. Then you'll slide the end of the cable out the hole you see in the bracket.

Didn't understand what you meant until I got out and looked around the bracket and then turned it by hand. So hooray!

 

[snowborder714]

I removed it but didn't know how to relieve the pressure and I think that's what made fuel come out of the fuel rail when lifting it up. Worst part though is it got inside the retainer part of 2 of the injector plugs/wires am I screwed?

Remove the back seat (bottom part), on the passenger side unscrew the fuel pump cover, and unplug the fuel pump. Then try to start the car and let it run until it dies (<5 seconds). Then try to start again to make sure it doesn't.

This will relieve the pressure, but you may still have a bit of fuel leak out if you remove something, so always have a rag handy.

No, you should be fine with getting gas in a plug. It should dry/evaporate fairly quickly.

Idk how you managed to relocate it to the firewall without having to extend it man . I guess I have to cut more of the loom.

I honestly don't remember. I have mine mounted to the right of the injector resistor box if that helps.

 

[ishnish]

Okay got ya'. I might check if it can reach the resistor box.

Also, the throttle cable won't be able to be pushed back towards the firewall without having to remove the upper part of my intercooler I think. Reason being is cause the throttle cable runs under it. So I don't think I can lift it up and push it back towards the firewall. Unless there is another way.. I don't wanna have to order a gasket and wait just to put that piping back on. I wonder if I can just pull it out from under the intercooler piping. What do you think judging from the first pic? Idk if it'd be flexible enough.

 

[snowborder714]

It's flexible enough, so just feed it back through and reroute it.

 

[ishnish]

Hey snowborder, I got the wire under the intake manifold but idk if I have to bolt that metal bracket that holds it on the intake manifold back on.

So do I have to bolt it back on? Is it necessary?

Also, there appears to be a metal braided wire thing that was grounded to the manifold. It looks like it's used for absolutely nothing. Is it important or can I remove it?

Here's what I'm talking about:

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[snowborder714]

Yes, the throttle cable bracket needs bolted back to the manifold. Otherwise you'll have no way to properly tension the cable.

Yes, you should keep the ground strap there.

 

[ishnish]

Okay thanks. I'm gonna try turning the firewall end downwards but don't know if I can like the 1g. Would you happen to know? Also for the power transistor, all but one wire runs towards the right of the engine bay (towards fuel pressure solenoid and EVAP purge solenoid). If they all ran the other way I'd imagine then I can undo the loom enough to reach the firewall but that wire seems like it's stopping me from doing it.

 

[snowborder714]

I don't believe I've ever seen someone flip the firewall bracket for the throttle cable.

If you need to lengthen some wires, you do. No way around it then.

 

[Lofty]

This is my basic guide with a 1g, it could be different with a 2g but it will give you ideas.

Throttle cable as mentioned.
Flip injectors as mentioned.
I have relocated a brake fluid resevoir at one point.

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The color black helps.

Pull out power steering, AC, Emissions (If allowed for your county) etc etc.

 

[ishnish]

Never lengthened wires before. Do I just cut the wire and solder another wire to it to lengthen it?

Thanks for getting in here Lofty. I need A/C and power steering. But I'm considering removing my ABS. Should I do the battery first though?