My 3000GT Vr4 Holset Hx52 build

[BoyRacerBlu]

Okay! So I just wanted to share with you my build for my 3000gt I've been working on over the last year. BEFORE anybody bawlks that this is a DSM forum, I'll post pics of my old talon I had that got me sparked into the turbocharged tuner scene from my original early 70's muscle car I still have haha.

Ye Olde Dizzy:

Keydiver Ecu, roku (fleabay 3") turbo back with Vibrant muffler, evo3 510cc injectors, CX racing FMIC, Greedy Type S bov, ACT 2600, Evo3 intake mani, MHI Evo3 turbo, wally 190 hotwired, Injen short ram intake, Motegi FF5 rims, 97 talon spoiler, Dub Audio sponsorship, kustom broken cam gear cover mod by dbag friend - i know i know, I personally don't like open cam gears for belt wear....







So, theres my history, and with how much I had redone/rebuilt/replaced/removed/refurb'd/repatched/rejunked on that car, I was feeling pretty confident with my fab skillz. I sold it, went to school some more, bought an old hum drum 90's impreza for the daily in wisconsin winter and saved my pennies. Then when one of these popped up in MN for my favorite year AND color, I scooped it:








Essentially......its a pricey land barge relative to dsms, but it had more torque, a nice interior, sounded nice, looked good, and came with a few pricey goodies, such as an old ATR catback, KN FIPK, and Blitz dual SBC-R 4 stage EBC. Despite its weight, its deceptively fast, it also was nice common ground between my talon and my 73 mustang, still turbo, but with more displacement. Soon though, I wanted more, and about a year and a half later, this is what has become of things....





Some also would argue that the single setup isnt as efficient in the 3s vs twins due to packaging, and after going through the fab, I'll agree with them somewhat, but then again, theres twin T3 kits available for these cars anyway, so what the heck!

I know its not a 4g63 power plant, but HOPEFULLY I can help add to the data for pushing this turbo to the max to help anyone else consider using it for drag racing, ect ect.

I'll keep the thread updated and hopefully get some extra clues on what to expect due to the crowd who's pimped the holsets for years


-Turbo is an Hx52, just like BigLady's- thanks for the great data btw, I've been following your threads, and the Holset FAQ thread, and anything else I can find on this thing as users are scarce

-fuel is 1250 cc's - about the equivelant to 14-1500's on a dsm, twin walbro 400's



- 32x12x4 custom ETS fmic with 3" piping and Tial 50mm bov






-spec 4+ solid hub, welded and balanced until the twin disc next year,

-Custom 3" dp and 350z header setup (matches right up to 3000gt manifold flange and works like a charm!) with divided 60mm wg dump.



-STM avenger intake manifold



DSM remote mount brake resevior- to make room for the 3" IC piping



-Maft

-lightweight odyssey race battery,

-3" ATR for this year still

-flash tunned ecu (FINALLY, we have it too, bout' time we caught up to the modern world)

-various deletes to cleanup that spaghetti basket of an engine bay.

-Billet aluminum bracing tig welded in for the tranny.

-MSD ignition and race wires.

- ABS delete with braided lines- faulty system on the 3000gt's under load/extreme braking conditions such as roadcourse and high trap drag racing.




- race grade fluids/wear items

- solid front/rear motor mounts





Next year is the bottom end and heads, a twin disc, a set of coil overs, and possibly making 4" exhaust- as it fits! (totally thought I didnt have the room!)





- Power goals for this year are 550/600 with pump gas on the stock engine and accesss to timing control. Perhaps a bit lofty to some, but it's a fairly realistic number for the 2nd gens with the forged crank and 4 bolt mains that have been pushed to 700+ on stock enigne. After the bottom end, I'd like to try for 850 out of it. If the 67mm billet comp can't keep up, ill upgrade the internals to the Hx52 PRO with 71mm billet comp and larger turbine. I'll also be looking at a quick spool valve like this to keep power under the curve:

Quick Spool Valve Dyno Tuned Comparison Test

excellent and sensible device with no compromises for performance except space around the turbine for the bracketry and extra wg


just wanted to share whats been happening in my garage and hopefully add a little more to the all of 3 pages on the interwebs that talk ANYTHING about actually using this turbo and how it behaves....

[ontario AWD]

I've alway had a soft spot for the 3000gt\stealth.Nice platform with tons of potential.Good luck with reaching your goals with this car.

[turboglenn]

TO be honest i've always loved the 3Kgt-VR4's, I think the main reason i'm in an eclipse and not a 3kgt is because before i was well knowledged in DSM's i had heard they have horrible manual trannies (and i wouldn't have owned an auto at that time in my life PERIOD ) I heard you couldn't rebuild them yourself for some reason about being assmebled at 500* (pobably all was crap but i don't honestly know)

ANyway, i think it's still part of the diamond start motors line isnt it?? and this doesn't say "eclipsetuners" it says "dsmtuners"

Anyway... I can't wait to see the results from this, I do't see very many good builds on these cars posted anywhere, I found a cool one on a personal web page but the page lacked good info and detail like you find in a build thread.

I do wonder is the auto's in those can be built toperform at thesame level the eclipse/talon autos are now capable of. IF so I might have renewed my interest in owning one

as for the sinle Vs. twins debate, I honestly lean towards the single setup.. I like seeing the big blower mounted up in the front of the engine bay and also, as i'm sure you know, working on anything to do with the turbo in the stock/twins configuration absolutely SUCKS!!!!!!!! if i wanted something that hard to work on i would buy an Subaru (inside joke ebtween me and a friend with an Sti)

what are you using for engine management??maybe i missed it, i'll read your post again'

Anyway, keep the info coming

[BoyRacerBlu]

Originally Posted by turboglenn

TO be honest i've always loved the 3Kgt-VR4's, I think the main reason i'm in an eclipse and not a 3kgt is because before i was well knowledged in DSM's i had heard they have horrible manual trannies (and i wouldn't have owned an auto at that time in my life PERIOD ) I heard you couldn't rebuild them yourself for some reason about being assmebled at 500* (pobably all was crap but i don't honestly know)

ANyway, i think it's still part of the diamond start motors line isnt it?? and this doesn't say "eclipsetuners" it says "dsmtuners"

Anyway... I can't wait to see the results from this, I do't see very many good builds on these cars posted anywhere, I found a cool one on a personal web page but the page lacked good info and detail like you find in a build thread.

I do wonder is the auto's in those can be built toperform at thesame level the eclipse/talon autos are now capable of. IF so I might have renewed my interest in owning one

as for the sinle Vs. twins debate, I honestly lean towards the single setup.. I like seeing the big blower mounted up in the front of the engine bay and also, as i'm sure you know, working on anything to do with the turbo in the stock/twins configuration absolutely SUCKS!!!!!!!! if i wanted something that hard to work on i would buy an Subaru (inside joke ebtween me and a friend with an Sti)

what are you using for engine management??maybe i missed it, i'll read your post again'

Anyway, keep the info coming

As for the dsm/not dsm debate, it gets argued all the time, some say that bc 3000gt's and stealths were contractually made in nagoya japan and truly an import, that they're not part of the diamond star project in IL/MI, others say that bc of the rebadging and that it was still manufactured under the same cooperative cross branding effort between mopar and mitsubishi, that its still part of the program, Honestly, i don't care who made what, I know what i like, and well.........this car makes me moist haha

-The FWD auto is actually stronger than the fwd 5 speed. People literally add an oil cooler to the tranny, and its handled 600 fwhp reliably for years. Its pretty cool actually, as most would consider ANY slushbox to be a pooch.

Im actually going to be a guinea pig for the 3s platform and try to push the envelope of what flash tunning can handle on an actually bigger setup. All the people running flash for the cars have some nice setups, but nothing terribly crazy in 3000gt land, just bolt on stuff, and even then, nothing has been dyno'd yet outside of the guy who made the flash file. He gained 45 awhp and 75 awtq on a stock 99 with no playing with the boost, just pulling fuel and playing with timing. (found out the stock map dips into the 9's)

450-600 awhp is kinda the norm and easy to achieve with exhaust, bolt on turbos and safc/maft with fuel for 3s's but I want to see what it will do with the hardware to support 800+.

Flash has only been available to the platform for a the better part of a year as the definition file from mitsu was FINALLY decoded and working on a stable example. Now we are starting basically the "tephra mod" stage in that V2 will have 2 step and is having no lift to shift coded in and playing catchup to you guys and the evo community who've been at this for years.

I'm hoping that I can demonstrate this as a viable tunning option midway of an EMS and a piggy back to the 3s guys who really are stuck only on "dont overcomplicate it, get an safc or ARC setup, dial it in for an hour and be done with it." Or " just spend the money and get an ems, do it right, in order to build power you need to spend 875087590875087.01 plus an arm, leg, first born to do it right, blah blah blah"


Kind of a not so progressive community at times, with large gaps in modding philosophy and the sizeable chunk of the community afraid to open their own hood. Other times its got some rather impressive things going on such as the guy previously mentioned with such a massive gain on just a tune on a DJ. Another example, a guy put down 610 awhp on pump meth with safc, maft, stock 180k engine with these bolt on turbos (eric M from Canada as noted in the add)

DR-750R Billet Turbos


heres a video of them in action with another guy in the UK that ran the same setup- they offer just goo gobs of power under the established "normal" curve

701bhp STI vs 3000gt - Car Videos on StreetFire


unfortunately, they also have the price tag to match and arent serviceable if they blow- the turbine is a Titanium/aluminum composite, and are rather pricey....

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

Really cool man. My brother has had a modded VR4 for years that's so much fun, and they really are highway monsters.

The only knock on them is how hard they are to work on and limited vendors make for high prices on parts, but they are great cars as you know, with tons of potential.

I'll be really interested to see this build and what kind of numbers you'll get.. Definitely capable of 800-1000 with that displacement and turbo.

[BoyRacerBlu]

thanks! I hope so, I actually have the DSM community to thank for most of my fab/tunning knowledge, LOTS of great indepth knowledge/how to's on these boards

I guess its true what they say- "DSM'S- making mechanics out of men since 1989"

its true about the vendor thing though, the pricing on some of the stuff is absurd. and now with MHI raising its prices on all its OEM hardware for hybrid turbos and such, its reached jaw dropping levels. Same with exhaust for these dumb things, they're STUPIDLY expensive, even the ebay rebrand generic knockoffs are still in the 600 range.....

Even so, this engine manadgement is new territory for these cars

the exhaust is new territory/relatively un-explored

and this turbo is DEFINITELY new territory

I guess we'll see if it does alright or its back to the drawing board

[turboglenn]

I've noticed how the owners split off in herds of philosophy..some are purists that want to leave everything perfectly stock and maintaned, plastic covers in engine bay and all, pay people to change their oil and carry a micro-fiber cloth so they can wipe any bugs off the window any time the park the thing

The there's the low numbers of guy that try and mod them but hit a brick wall because of the price of going much over a pair of oem turbos' with 16g wheels in them

and then i see the ones that are so rare they are probably living next door to a yeti, and those are the ones who do like what yuou're doing and actually go to make some damn power

Oh, and lets not forget the ones who drive it, park it, and when you ask about the last oil change the reply "last summer sometime" should be good enough in their minds

[DSMsOwnYourV8]

Originally Posted by BoyRacerBlu

thanks! I hope so, I actually have the DSM community to thank for most of my fab/tunning knowledge, LOTS of great indepth knowledge/how to's on these boards

I guess its true what they say- "DSM'S- making mechanics out of men since 1989"

its true about the vendor thing though, the pricing on some of the stuff is absurd. and now with MHI raising its prices on all its OEM hardware for hybrid turbos and such, its reached jaw dropping levels. Same with exhaust for these dumb things, they're STUPIDLY expensive, even the ebay rebrand generic knockoffs are still in the 600 range.....

Even so, this engine manadgement is new territory for these cars

the exhaust is new territory/relatively un-explored

and this turbo is DEFINITELY new territory

I guess we'll see if it does alright or its back to the drawing board

Ya custom fab seems to really be the way to go on those cars.. it's MUCH cheaper, and since you're doing a single turbo that's probably never been done before on that car, it's all going to be custom. lol. Good luck man, I can't wait to see the results!

Subscribed!

[hediki12]

i cant wait to see the final product! any internal upgrades?

[familyMAN]

Nice work so far! Be careful with the stock second gen pistons. Seems wise, IMO, to throw some cheap h beam rods and forged pistons on your stock forged crank now, instead of later, after it may be too late. You'll save time and money and be able to push the setup without fear. If you are adamant on stock pistons, are you going to at least open up the ring gap a bit?

[arm0red1]

O heeyyyyyy! Didnt know you frequent these boards too!


This is just for occaisional weekend use this year on e85. With the knock deterrent and lower cylinder temps of the fuel, and the availability of it around in central wi (4 stations carry it in town), im not terribly worried. Not including my car, we have a 6bolt frankenstein talon doing 550 on the stock motor, an sti runnig an fp green @25psi on it on stock motor, and c5 procharged vette at 750 rwhp stock bottom end all locally tuned in our little group of friends. We love the stuff, and have had nothing but safe consistant results with the above listed examples all running that way for the last 2 years while theyre putting together an engine build. If i do get stuck using regular pump, ill pull back the timing or mix some toulene in the tank. If it does pop, then well, ill drop in the motor im building on the side and sending to ray for the headlift fix. - mainly i dont have the current parts list and money to pick it up as im getting pretty broke from everything on this build, my fuel system from ray was 1100 alone, and i wanted to repair the tranny and get it beefed to respectable levels. In a nutshell, im too poor to run it balls out right NOOOOOWWWwwwww, so i guess well see how the stocker does at moderate boost levels with a safe tune

I understand its a risk, as with most performance mods, but i think the engine will be fine and its one im willing to tske to drive it around for now. I dont need 800+ by tomorrow. Im worried more about the clutch or the gear assembly inside the transfercase coming to pieces under a hard launch with higher power levels

Hows your mtc billets doing? I loved your build thread, and mtc seemed to be spot on for their rating system. Im actually about to go drive to hudson on fri to talk with dan about his 93 for sale, and maybe look/consider their new td04 linup.


Bottom line though, i just want to propagate more data on this turbo, i think it could be a great alternative in the standard fare of 90lbs/min turbos like a gt42/borg S4xx variants/comp/PTE and there just really arent that many people documented as using it. Theres a bmw, an rx7, big ladies dsm, and hopefully myself that have documented results of putting it through its paces. That way if anyone is looking at using this, they can find a little more online than i did.

Btw have an added idea to the lfa thread for a venturi effect on the hood, ill pm you and jfast and see what you think

[familyMAN]

You had said 550/600 on pump not e85. My understanding is that the stock ring gaps are too tight for big boost/power, so if you open them up a bit along with e85 they'll take you a lot further.

I think the MTC turbos will be great. Car is back together again and it feels really strong so far on quick break-in miles. Turbos seem to be spooling quicker now that the cams are degreed in. Hard to confirm since I am keeping it under 5psi and just running up the rpms.

Moving back to Indiana this summer so there won't be progress for a little while. Hoping early fall is kill mode, finally!

[arm0red1]

Well TECHNICALLY if you want to split hairs, E85 IS pumpgas, its an alternative fuel for mass use, just like regular unleaded or deisal, it just was discovered to have fringe benefits to the tuning community.

E85 aside, theres been several examples of stock engines doing big pump numbers with crude safc's and mafts just fine. Hell, ray broke 500 on a stock engine with stock intercoolers and catback.

Heck the 3sx td05 kits of yesterday were breaking 500 on stock motor on an safc/maft. Same with with the dr examples from eric and the like

I even have timing control over ALL the above cited examples that were done with an safc/maft combo, an extra dimension of 'BOOM' prevention

Personally i think our engines with proper maintenance and good oiling are a lot stronger than people in our community give them credit for, not that im playing ignorant to the engine failures that some have had, but there are PLENTY enough positive examples out there that demonstrate "hey, it can take it" just fine. It's all about the tune and the flow of your turbo/exhaust, and this thing *should* have plenty of flow.

[arm0red1]

Thread update- holset hx52 setup RUNS! Just took it out for a quick spin only to bring it back as it got hot from my rad fans didnt kick on, one bug to address........but not before i got a wastegate pull in when starting to log the flash tune. The turbo kicks in at around 4500 on a stock 3.0 with 8.1 compression, no headwork, no timing advance or leanspool (yet) massive intercooler, on e85. When it does, the whistle is loud enough to drown my open dump wastegate, and the power delivery is pretty violent, one of those "nothing........ nothing..... nothi-#7@&@*@)!!8'-'-37@)@73%4!!!!" type turbos.

On a 2.0/2.4, i wouldnt expect spool sooner than 5 with antilag or a quick spool valve. Ill have some dyno data and logs posted once i work out the bugs from sitting for a year and getting heavily changed from stock

[Purple_Demon]

I demand more pics and vids. My first choice was a 3000GT but I could not find a VR4 at all, and when I did find one, it was rather pricey (8.5K for stock). So I hopped in with the 2G XD

Best of luck and keep us updated!

[hediki12]

what is the feed fitting dimension for the hx52?

[BoyRacerBlu]

THREAD UPDATE AND REVIVE! Sorry for the delay, but I've been juggling school, this and sourcing a nice daily I don't need to worry about in the winter.


So update on the car: SHE RUNS BEAUTIFULLY! Pulls hard for just 14psi.

-The Spool/behavior

On 3.0L with ****ONLY INJECTOR SCALING AND OPEN SOURCE BASEMAP**** (so far) and no tune or timing to play with the spool, boost starts around 3800 and hit full boost by 4500rpms on e85, suggesting the 16cm is roughly in the ballpark of 1.2-1.4 A/R in universal exhaust housing terms- fairly big for 4g63 2.0 use. The turbo comes on fast and violently, there's no gradual surge. First you hear the whistle begin quietly and build louder (it actually does sound like a jet engine due to no pipe on the coldside muffling it- i found it kind of comical)

-The Fitting question

I actually just ordered the garret oil fitting for the gt42, its unrestricted so far, and not blowing any smoke, but 3000gt operating oil pressure is considerably lower than the 4g63 so it might not be a problem, but after the work, I'm still getting a restrictor to install for cold starts when the oil is thick

the feed is a -4 and the drain is a -12

-The results

According to Virtual dyno, on just the injector scaling, its showing 393hp at 14 psi, I'd post the logs, but we actually did them on a friends laptop. When I go in for a real tunning session, I'll make sure to request the data for posting

Heres a quickie pull video on the night the injectors were scaled, and so far thats the farthest its gotten, I havent had time to take it back in to start tunning appointments on the dyno, not to mention to repair the tranny and swap in my heavy clutch yet- all on this winter's docket.


Skip to 26 sec as I didn't realize at the time he wanted me to do a pull


HX52 Single Turbo Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 - A quick pull on first base tune - YouTube

Pics of the finished project (don't mind the heat material, was working on a new, better looking shield for the firewall when I snapped the pic:













---Proof that with enough crap removed you can see the ground through a 3000gt engine bay!

[Mishimoto]

Looks like it moves quite nicely. Always been a fan of these despite their reputation. Keep us informed on the build!

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Any pictures of the collector at the flange where it meets the turbo?

Is this on the stock cam?

Auto/Manual?

Weight?

What gear are you seeing 14psi @ 4500? That seems a bit late for a 3.0 on E85.

[TALON the TSi]

i thought vr4's are twin turbod? i only see 1 turbo....

Wish i knew more about cars

[LandSpeed-DSM]

They come with two 9B turbos stock.

This was converted to run a single Holset Hx52.

[BOOSTIN21]

Originally Posted by TALON the TSi

i thought vr4's are twin turbod? i only see 1 turbo....

Wish i knew more about cars

I wish you did to.

this is an awesome build! I cant wait to see this car get tracked!

[talon2gbuyer]

that is nucking futs man.. nice work

[fosforito95]

Originally Posted by LandSpeed-DSM

Any pictures of the collector at the flange where it meets the turbo?

Is this on the stock cam?

Auto/Manual?

Weight?

What gear are you seeing 14psi @ 4500? That seems a bit late for a 3.0 on E85.

i would like to know this too..

[Mishimoto]

Originally Posted by TALON the TSi

i thought vr4's are twin turbod? i only see 1 turbo....

Wish i knew more about cars

We all have to start somewhere. Surf around the site and do some reading. Tons of awesome information here on dsmtuners.

[BoyRacerBlu]

Originally Posted by LandSpeed-DSM

Any pictures of the collector at the flange where it meets the turbo?

Is this on the stock cam?

Auto/Manual?

Weight?

What gear are you seeing 14psi @ 4500? That seems a bit late for a 3.0 on E85.

- stock longblock- changing that over winter

- its the 6 spd which has taller gears than the 5 spd in the 1st gen 3/s cars, but in the 6 speed, 1st and 2nd are relatively tight, 3rd is tall, roughly in the range of 4th in the dsm transmission -pull was in 3rd at about 35, which is too low for it, but my 2nd synchro is shot and slated for a rebuild in nov, so its the best i can do

weight: unsure, I've only done some basic weight reduction thus far and thats on my list of things to do, but I've roughly dropped 180-200 lbs out of the car without spending any money or sacrificing anything to detract from enjoying it as a cruiser, such as interior components or sound deadening. Estimates are, with me not in and a full tank of gas, roughly 3550-3600 from the 3750 stock dry weight based on the collective weight of parts, brackets, and systems i have removed, i still have race seats, carbon fiber drive shaft, rear steering rack delete, and possibly a custom thicker wall aluminum single shot custom exhaust to fab. yup. aluminum. maybe some lighter body panels if I have a extra coin, but at least a hood for sure

I thought the spool was ok...... its litearally only got injector scaling on a 99 3000gt Vr4 ROM
no timing

no fuel

no nothing.

- so im hoping to improve the gains a bit with some actual tunning, but keep in mind on an HX52, full boost @ 4500 isnt abnormal on a 3.0. BigLady hits @ *EDIT* 6500 on a 2.0 with a built head, i think adding another liter and dropping 2000 rpms of spool on a car with a factory turbo basemap rescaled to handle 1250cc injectors is plausable

- take the video above as a sort of "it runs" more than "thats the end result" it needs to go back to start tunning, but the tuner has been busy and I've been busy myself, and the tranny needs repairs before I want to put real power through it....it's just taking some time waiting for the stars to align when ill have both money AND time to play on my own terms when it comes to my sched

[biglady112]

We have never done a 2.4. I helped a friend with a 6262 T3 car, but neverade it past 18psi. It is around 6500-6700rpm for peak torque(actual full boost) on a 2.0L.

Good job on getting the car running. I advise putting some 1/4" chicken wire behind that mesh for support. We almost destroyed a T67 a few years ago when we noticed on the dyno the mesh was being sucked in under boost. When we saw it it was pretty much contacting the nut/end of the shaft on the compressor.

[BoyRacerBlu]

Ahh, i msread the thread, apologies, you guys have been a big help back when i was initially researching this and putting it all together, your one of the few places that actually has data on this turbo outside of norotors and their 1 guy in an rx7 the tried one, and some guy with a custom setup in an e30 bmw - thankyou for posting your data and helping me (unknowingly)

The screen fitting is actually destined to go, im attempting to locate an hks or other low profile style filter as its too tight to make a 4.5" pipe piece for the inlet where its located on my car, so if you know anyone who has one up for grabs....

Also if you guys have a spare 16cm hotside up for sale from a blown hx52, id love to buy it. Im going to design a quickspool valve inside the exhaust housing and i need a guinea pig housing to do it on/ test machine tolerances and attempt to bring boost response to hit full boost BY 3800 with the valve and some actual tunning with timing in the mix

I dont thing i have a very good pic of the pipe collector, but i can see what i can dig up, but the manifold is twin scroll with 1 7/8" runner pipes for the cross pipe going to each scroll in the flange, the runners also have a pipe off the peak of each arc that merge to a single collector for the 60mm external wastegate. The exhaust might be the choking factor though as the "intestine pipe" as i like to call it, the goes off the back of the turbo and underneath the car is a bit bendy to clear parts and only 3"- ive been contemplating on going up to 3.5" and hoping to free up some power and spool being robbed from a downpipe the essentially looks like an anatomically accurate colon

[LandSpeed-DSM]

With an extra 50% exhaust flow (dependent on VE of course), you should be able to bring it down almost that much with tuning. More heat at the turbine inlet would help.

Biglady: When you say full boost are you referring to the 37-38psi from ~815whp run, or the more recent 30psi / ~780whp from the other thread?

Was that 6500-6700 in 3rd?

I could've sworn that was what you were telling us you saw on the 1.6 Colt with the revhard manifold, no? Perhaps I've misunderstood.

Thanks in advance.

[BoyRacerBlu]

yeaahhhhh, more heat at the turbine would help quite a bit, I'm not really USING the E85 yet, but hopefully that can change and i can use some more aggressive timing and spool tuning to get it rolling, but regardless though, im still probably going to get the QSV thing going, the more broad and linear powerband I can get, the better, as I intend to mostly road race, with the occasional drag every now and then


keep in mind though, general VE of larger engines decreases due to increased parasitic losses such as increased friction due to more contact area, increased loss of energy through heat, sound, ect, it just happens as engines get bigger, and isnt an area I havent tapped into yet