2G AWD Problems - Grinding, won't go into gear from nuetral....

[JWoodley]

I fried my stock clutch on a 14B (I'm sure the previous owner took great care of it ). I was having trouble with first gear. It didn't always want to go in and sometimes it would pop out on the release of the clutch.

So I replaced the clutch with an ACT 2600 and street disk, Fidanza flyhweel, and underhood shifter bushings. I intended to limp the car around for the next 1500 miles of so until I can afford a rebuild.

So I get everything put back together, crank her up on the jackstands, and let her idle. Checked everything, etc.

I tried to put her into first while running (depressing clutch ofcourse) and nothing doing. Grinds bad and wont go into gear. I turn the car off, place the gearbox into second, crank the car, release the clutch and the wheels spin. I attempt to go to third and it grinds, nothing doing. I repeat the same process for 3rd and 4th and the wheels spin.

I crank the car with the gearbox in first, release the clutch and nothing. No wheel movement, no anything.

I replaced the master and the slave. Each is functioning properly. The clutch pedal pressure does not feel like a 2600 should. I've checked and have no leaks that I'm aware of. I really want the car to be road ready.

The transmission shifts into each gear fine when the car is not running. I can actually here the car go into each gear.

Please point me in the right direction. I really don't feel like dropping the transmission too many more times.

Thanks,
Joseph

 

[assault187]

You torqued your flywheel bolts correctly and with LOC-TITE right!? And also your pressure plate bolts? My friends car did the same thing, His pressure plate bolts had backed out. Check it out before its too late..his ate up his bell housing. 1st flush and bleed you clutch lines again and see where that gets you.

 

[brandonzero0]

I ran into this problemwhenI installed my friends fidanza 4.3 6 puck clutch kit and fidanza flywheel, Tryed everything, I told him to order a extended clutch rod and It now full engages and disengages properly and is fin until this day I changed the clutch and flywheel about 5 months ago.

 

[JWoodley]

You torqued your flywheel bolts correctly and with LOC-TITE right!? And also your pressure plate bolts? My friends car did the same thing, His pressure plate bolts had backed out. Check it out before its too late..his ate up his bell housing. 1st flush and bleed you clutch lines again and see where that gets you.

Everything was torqued correctly and loctited. I've bleed the clutch about 4 times. The slave rod is actuating properly. I'm going to make sure the shifter cables are adjusted properly. I really need some troubleshooting help here before I go through the downtime and cost to replace this transmission.

Wisemen?

 

[JWoodley]

Ordered the longer slave rod. I'm hoping and praying this fixes my problem.

 

[JackM]

The longer rod is a scam. If you learn how the system works, the rod doesn't do a darn thing. All it does is position the slave piston back farther. The amount of fluid going to the slave, and the slave piston diameter has not changed, so the throw to the TOB arm will be the same as the OEM rod.

Jack

 

[TSiAWD666]

Sometimes the fulcrum ball for the clutch fork needs to be shimmed to provide the proper fulcrum point for the fork, which gives you the proper throw for the clutch. It sounds as if you're just not getting enough clutch disengagement and with everything else you've checked this is the only thing I can think of.

 

[DSMpwr25]

I am kinda the same problem with mine right now. I think mine is not fully dingaging the clutch and pressure plate. Mine will shift threw all the gears when the car is sitting, but once the car is rolling it wont go into gear??

 

[JWoodley]

I am kinda the same problem with mine right now. I think mine is not fully dingaging the clutch and pressure plate. Mine will shift threw all the gears when the car is sitting, but once the car is rolling it wont go into gear??

Thats exactly what I'm experiencing. The longer slave rod didn't fix the problem and as I began to think about it, Jack hit the nail on the head.

I'm going to drop the transmission again then replace the clutch fork and pivot ball. I'll be looking for some write-ups on how to properly shim it. Any insight, pictures, etc would be greatly appreciated.

Should I go ahead and send the transmission off for a rebuild prior to reinstalling? I'm bummed out.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

The longer rod is a scam. If you learn how the system works, the rod doesn't do a darn thing. All it does is position the slave piston back farther. The amount of fluid going to the slave, and the slave piston diameter has not changed, so the throw to the TOB arm will be the same as the OEM rod.

Jack

Sorry, I have to interject. This is not entirely true. The long rod thing is a scam, in sorts. It works, but in a way of putting a Band-aid on a bullet wound. The clutch master cylinder is self adjusting to compensate for the wear of the clutch contact surface on the disc. By putting a extended rod you are extending the pivot on the clutch fork. This has two problems. One, depending on the rod length and postion of the engagment of the master cylinder, the clutch will be slight disengaged at all times. Two, you are forcing more pressure on the entire clutch system then it is designed. This causes additional wear and premature failure of the Pressure Plate, TOB, Clutch Forck, Slave Cylinder, and Master Cylinder.

So in the end it works....for a bit. But then your risk replacing all the clutch components.

The correct procedure would be to check the condition of both the Clutch Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder. Ensure proper adjustment of the Clutch Master Cylinder rod. From there you have to pull the tranny, and check the condition of the Clutch Fork/pivot ball, and the torque on the Pressure Plate bolts and Flywheel Bolts.

 

[JWoodley]

Sorry, I have to interject. This is not entirely true. The long rod thing is a scam, in sorts. It works, but in a way of putting a Band-aid on a bullet wound. The clutch master cylinder is self adjusting to compensate for the wear of the clutch contact surface on the disc. By putting a extended rod you are extending the pivot on the clutch fork. This has two problems. One, depending on the rod length and postion of the engagment of the master cylinder, the clutch will be slight disengaged at all times. Two, you are forcing more pressure on the entire clutch system then it is designed. This causes additional wear and premature failure of the Pressure Plate, TOB, Clutch Forck, Slave Cylinder, and Master Cylinder.

So in the end it works....for a bit. But then your risk replacing all the clutch components.

The correct procedure would be to check the condition of both the Clutch Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder. Ensure proper adjustment of the Clutch Master Cylinder rod. From there you have to pull the tranny, and check the condition of the Clutch Fork/pivot ball, and the torque on the Pressure Plate bolts and Flywheel Bolts.

In my case, the slave is brand new. The master cylinder was in proper operating condition. I will try to adjust it before I drop the transmission again. The pedal pressure doesn't feel any firmer than stock and I'm running a ACT2600 with street disk. I've driven several cars with ACT2100 and they were noticeably firmer than stock. The extended slave rod has my shift fork pinned against the bellhousing, so I'll be changing that back out before too long.

I'm debating eliminating the accumulator and bleeding the clutch a few more times.

Keep it coming guys! TIA

EDIT: Do you think I should try to adjust my shifter cables?

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I'm not as familiar with the 2gs. I just noticed that you had a 2g. So some of things may not apply to you. As for the cables, it wasn't aware the 2g's were adjustable.

 

[1bad92awd]

Did you already try bleeding the lines again?

 

[JWoodley]

I've bled the clutch three times. I'm going to try adjust the pedal once more and bleeding again. After that I'm dropping it again and its off to TRE.

 

[brandonzero0]

Had the exact problem on my friends car, I replaced the clutch, flywheel, tob, release fork, fulcrum ball and a ss clutch line and when We got te rod in we put it in and the solved the problem.

 

[JWoodley]

Had the exact problem on my friends car, I replaced the clutch, flywheel, tob, release fork, fulcrum ball and a ss clutch line and when We got te rod in we put it in and the solved the problem.

You failed to mention the rest of the details in your first post. You said the longer rod fixed it.

I should've replaced the fork and fulcrum ball when I had it out the first time. I'm using the ACT TOB.

 

[JackM]

Sorry, I have to interject. This is not entirely true. The long rod thing is a scam, in sorts. It works, but in a way of putting a Band-aid on a bullet wound. The clutch master cylinder is self adjusting to compensate for the wear of the clutch contact surface on the disc. By putting a extended rod you are extending the pivot on the clutch fork. This has two problems. One, depending on the rod length and postion of the engagment of the master cylinder, the clutch will be slight disengaged at all times. Two, you are forcing more pressure on the entire clutch system then it is designed. This causes additional wear and premature failure of the Pressure Plate, TOB, Clutch Forck, Slave Cylinder, and Master Cylinder.

So in the end it works....for a bit. But then your risk replacing all the clutch components.

The correct procedure would be to check the condition of both the Clutch Master Cylinder and Slave Cylinder. Ensure proper adjustment of the Clutch Master Cylinder rod. From there you have to pull the tranny, and check the condition of the Clutch Fork/pivot ball, and the torque on the Pressure Plate bolts and Flywheel Bolts.

Agreed, but that will only happen if the rod will bottom out the piston in the slave cylinder. Most of the units we have seen didn't do that, so it made no change at all, but on some it did do that which is very bad. Constant stress on just about everything at all times including the engine thrust bearing.

Jack

 

[JackM]

I tried to put her into first while running (depressing clutch ofcourse) and nothing doing. Grinds bad and wont go into gear. I turn the car off, place the gearbox into second, crank the car, release the clutch and the wheels spin. I attempt to go to third and it grinds, nothing doing. I repeat the same process for 3rd and 4th and the wheels spin.

I crank the car with the gearbox in first, release the clutch and nothing. No wheel movement, no anything.

Grinding gears will do damage to the gear dog teeth and sliders.
http://www.jackstransmissions.com/dsm-thrust-slider-wear.php?osCsid=ff689162c5e9e5352724b30d729f98dd

Forcing it when it is blocking you out will wear out the synchro blocker rings.
http://www.jackstransmissions.com/doublesynchro.php?osCsid=ff689162c5e9e5352724b30d729f98dd

I'd still say it is clutch related. If you rebuild the trans now, before fixing the original problem here, you can trash a new unit all over again. I'd try this, but be very careful:


1) Have the car running with the e-brake off so it can roll.
2) Push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor and hold it there.
3) Turn off your launch limiter in DSM link so the engine can hit 7K RPM.
4) Put the car into 1st gear.
5) Rev the engine up until you feel the car start to move forward.

If the car moves forward below 7200RPM, your clutch is dragging.

If it doesn't move, you could have a synchro/tranny problem, but that is hard to believe if the trans was working fine before the new clutch install. There is a possibility that somehow the blocker rings and sliders got wiped out to the point of having a difficult time engaging into gear, but that still seems very unlikely. Maybe fluid? What kind of fluid did you use?? If your synchro rings have the old lining in them, and you are using something like heavy weight redline shock proof, that could definitely do it too.

Jack

 

[DSMpwr25]

Grinding gears will do damage to the gear dog teeth and sliders.
http://www.jackstransmissions.com/dsm-thrust-slider-wear.php?osCsid=ff689162c5e9e5352724b30d729f98dd

Forcing it when it is blocking you out will wear out the synchro blocker rings.
http://www.jackstransmissions.com/doublesynchro.php?osCsid=ff689162c5e9e5352724b30d729f98dd

I'd still say it is clutch related. If you rebuild the trans now, before fixing the original problem here, you can trash a new unit all over again. I'd try this, but be very careful:


1) Have the car running with the e-brake off so it can roll.
2) Push the clutch pedal all the way to the floor and hold it there.
3) Turn off your launch limiter in DSM link so the engine can hit 7K RPM.
4) Put the car into 1st gear.
5) Rev the engine up until you feel the car start to move forward.

If the car moves forward below 7200RPM, your clutch is dragging.

If it doesn't move, you could have a synchro/tranny problem, but that is hard to believe if the trans was working fine before the new clutch install. There is a possibility that somehow the blocker rings and sliders got wiped out to the point of having a difficult time engaging into gear, but that still seems very unlikely. Maybe fluid? What kind of fluid did you use?? (((((((If your synchro rings have the old lining in them, and you are using something like heavy weight redline shock proof, that could definitely do it too.)))))))

Jack

WHOA!!!! I thought you were sopost to use redline fluid??? Thats what I had in my tranny when it stoped shift like his???

 

[JWoodley]

If it doesn't move, you could have a synchro/tranny problem, but that is hard to believe if the trans was working fine before the new clutch install. There is a possibility that somehow the blocker rings and sliders got wiped out to the point of having a difficult time engaging into gear, but that still seems very unlikely. Maybe fluid? What kind of fluid did you use?? If your synchro rings have the old lining in them, and you are using something like heavy weight redline shock proof, that could definitely do it too.

Jack

When the clutch started slipping I had to drive it back home about 25 miles and it was almost refusing to go from gear to gear. I forced it into every gear several times over on the way home.

I'm using a synthetic fluid in the gearbox. I'll have to look and see exactly what kind.

Unfortunately I have the transmission out again getting it ready to ship out or I'd try the 7200rpm stuff.

It engaged fine in 3 and 4 but wouldn't let me get into reverse. (Crank the car in 3rd and release clutch normally)

 

[viperlp01]

Well i was sitting at a light with it in first and my foot on the clutch and then i lost the pedal and my car stalled. The pedal was on the floor and i was first in line at the light. I put in it second and started the car and drove to my buddies. I changed the slave and i still can't get a pedal. I put a bushing around the clevis pin and all free play is out of the pedal. Im bring over the bleeder vacum tonight. by the way i have a gsx now i didn't change my car. Is it possible it can be the fork that the slave pushes on. those can wear but can they wear that fast? i just need to see because i have the same problem. no clutch disengagment. thanks guy john

 

[JackM]

Something could have just broke. The hub in the disk, fork, TOB, master cylinder...so yes, I would say that if something broke, you could get a problem suddenly like that.

Jack

 

[JackM]

When the clutch started slipping I had to drive it back home about 25 miles and it was almost refusing to go from gear to gear. I forced it into every gear several times over on the way home.

I'm using a synthetic fluid in the gearbox. I'll have to look and see exactly what kind.

Unfortunately I have the transmission out again getting it ready to ship out or I'd try the 7200rpm stuff.

It engaged fine in 3 and 4 but wouldn't let me get into reverse. (Crank the car in 3rd and release clutch normally)

Synchro blockers are pretty fragile, so it's definitely possible they were damaged on that trip home.

Jack

 

[JWoodley]

I broke an "ear" off the block. It's on the front side by the motor mount/slave and as of right now I forgot whether it was an alignment pin or a bolt hole.

Could this be causing me any trouble?

 

[JackM]

Yes, that ear has a dowel pin for alignment and a bolt. If all of that is gone, your trans will push away from the engine when the clutch is depressed cousing the clutch to sit in the friction zone even when the pedal is all the way to the floor.

Jack