3rd and FINAL Round 2009: 14b Talon ends the season on a high..

[Phil1320]

Hey All! I won't talk too much before cutting to the chase, but, let's just say I almost didn't make it to the track for many reasons, the obvious one being the weather. To cover that right off the bat, there were drops hitting the windshield five miles from the house, along the way at different points in the Berkshire mountains, and within five miles of the track. At the track, DRY all day and at points some hazy sun comin through. Not a warm day, but dry. Thanks to someone(who I don't know)for giving us that.

Changes from July for those of you that have been following:

-Pneumos chip with stutterbox, NLTS, and timing adjustments at 6500 and 7000
-gutted factory doors, I think savings was around 70 lbs. I don't think the scale was open, and never even thought to stop but I'll estimate my total weight at 2530-2550 lbs.
-some cool wrap on lower I/C pipe, J-pipe, and turbo inlet pipe.
-slicks at 11-12 psi instead of 14-15 back in July

Ok, the digits NOW, the story later.


PASSES:

#1 1.54 11.66@113.32 = not a bad first pass at all I thought!

#2 3.38 13.43@114.83 = let up on clutch, RED lighted(stutter learning)

#3 1.49 11.60@114.40 = FIRST 1.4 sixty foot!!!

#4 1.48 11.64@115.02 = 1.48? I can't believe it!

#5 1.50 11.65@113.94 = I always like consistancy!

#6 1.49 11.59@114.27 = July's was 11.593, this was 11.594 right there!

#7 1.48 11.49@113.85 = !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's it.....just 7 passes, but the last one made the day! I got to the track late, 11 AM, and it had been oiled down already and noone was running at the time. My first pass was at 12:35 and I was getting right back in the lanes, there were a decent amount of cars there. Several more oil downs followed.

I'll go through some notes now and tell the story of what it took to make it happen yesterday later on down the thread.

Ok, run #6 was 11.594, one thousandth off my 11.593 from July, so I had essentially matched my personal best. I did however best July's 1/8 mile of 7.360 with a 7.345. So that was cool. That was just quicker than pneumo's 7.349. That was cool too.

Here are all stats on Run #7:

60' - 1.481
330' - 4.66
660' - 7.279
MPH - 94.59
1000- 9.562
1320- 11.497
MPH - 113.85


There you have it! Just under a tenth to the 1/8 mile and closer to a full tenth to the 1/4. I will say it was the hardest tenth ever in my 13 years of drag racing.

More notes:

- 1.4X 60's feel incredible. Obviously due in part to the stutterbox. For that I have to thank Dave Womer, pneumo, a stand up guy who really helped me out with a great piece of my puzzle. So, a shout out to pneumo

- The car felt great, although still seemed to lay down on the top-end a bit. I think having such low pressure in the slicks this time killed some of my MPH at the top of the track. I'll definitely want to get into some discussion later about all this and have a few things to share that we may use to improve next year.

SO, I'll let this thread fly for now and we can open up a winter long conversation and see what we come up with! Should be fun!

Before I close. Gotta thank some people and give props where it is deserved:

My buddy Jim for letting me use his RAM pickup. No matter how well prepped the car was, without a way to get to the strip it wouldn't matter. Thanks Jim!!!

Bullett---the ongoing local support is great and you have done alot by way of advice, and analyzing my launches and runs. A true friend that I appreciate very much, especially when it comes to what we love to do most=RACE! Thank you Mark! You are a large part of why I continue this journey on the 14b. Yes, I said you are an inspiration, I'll never forget

Travis aka Gooberlog- I'm glad we met back when I worked at Extreme, you were a great guy to be around, talk to and thanks for the interest and support back then and for the ongoing support to this day. I still remember the day you came by with the new EVO and let me drive one for the first time, I was the only one in the shop that "Extreme" didn't offer to let drive theirs when they got it, remember that? So, we've known each other a while and I'm certainly glad we're in touch.

Shane aka SBstar- even though we have never met Shane, I feel like we've known each other for quite a while. I appreciate all the interest, encouragement, ideas, support, and advice that you have given over the years. It has definitely helped keep me on my toes and want to keep going with the project! Of course Gooberlog's "timeslips not lap times" campaign follows similar fashion. Thanks for everything Shane!

Nate Crisman- I'm glad you have been following my efforts, it means alot. Thanks for all the well wishes and support! It's great that you still take interest in the 14b quest even though you have moved on to different arenas over the last several years. I'm glad you're around and I hope you'll continue to take part! And for the record you still have me by .05!!!

Dave Womer aka pneumo- Thank you not only for the obvious, but, also for following my efforts, giving advice, and rooting for me to go quicker. You've been an awesome supporter and have alot to contribute as you've taken the 14b combination to far reaches of horsepower, ET, and speed. I'm sure I will continue to look in your direction for some thought, input, and advice

Joe Bucci- Thanks for the support over the years and stating at one point I inspired your project Goodwill Laser. You have set the bar SO high and I'm taking baby steps toward it. 10.84 I'm still .65 behind. You haven't inspired me as much as you have sent me on a journey that I may never complete!

Some local guys that have supported me, some for years and years, and in the present:

Doug Drenzek--thanks for the long-time support and interest, and the cool announcing I heard you did yesterday!!!(and vids, please post here!)
Bobby Wright Jr.
Kevin Bernier
Sean Waterman
Bill Brown Jr.
Jason Byrne
Shawn McClarney
Kamar and his crew..thanks for the interest yesterday!
Maxx Cianci


There were pictures taken!
There were videos taken!

I'll gather it all up!

2009 Summary = Best ET at start of year = 12.00

Round #1 = 11.75 -.25 ET

Round #2 = 11.59 -.16 ET

Round #3 = 11.49 -.10 ET

FINAL ET reduction= .51 seconds

[SBstar]

AWESOME! Congrats PHIL! Enjoy being back on the top! (I'd insert the ol "Don't get to comfortable" quote here but unless Pneumo throws it back on I'd say throw yourself in the lazyboy for a spell)

Thank you for all the advice you've handed down to me and all those great tips and tricks.

1.4 60 fts are absolutely incredible! Are you building any boost off the line? Also are you taking the car all the way to 7k before shifting now? Do you think it was worth it, or possibly try still shifting lower? It's incredible to think there is still more in it, but as with everything it can always get faster. Sounds like we might get the opportunity to see it on the drag strip again next year eh?

Can't wait to see the vids!

[carfanatic_88]

Just nuts!!! great driving man!!

[Phil1320]

Originally Posted by SBstar

AWESOME! Congrats PHIL! Enjoy being back on the top! (I'd insert the ol "Don't get to comfortable" quote here but unless Pneumo throws it back on I'd say throw yourself in the lazyboy for a spell)

Thank you for all the advice you've handed down to me and all those great tips and tricks.

1.4 60 fts are absolutely incredible! Are you building any boost off the line? Also are you taking the car all the way to 7k before shifting now? Do you think it was worth it, or possibly try still shifting lower? It's incredible to think there is still more in it, but as with everything it can always get faster. Sounds like we might get the opportunity to see it on the drag strip again next year eh?

Can't wait to see the vids!

Thanks!!!

Ha......don't get too comfortable......that was some funny stuff!

I am building exactly what Dave said, between 10-12 psi if I stay on it. One second on the stutter nets about 2 psi.

You know, that's what I'm still trying to figure out, I tried different shift points and holding on til 7000 rpm netted me nothing....really......I tried it on one pass.
I will say that I feel I held on to first a bit longer than the last time. I'm honestly not sure if the car liked the timing bump at 6500 and 7000. I think I'd have to get on the dyno and swap chips to confirm, or datalog

Without a doubt, there is more left Shane. But, you see the trend this year: first .25, then .15, yesterday .10. So, again we are hitting that potential limit as the car sits.

And now, I need to get a cage in the car. It is time to start making more power, somehow.

On the 11.49 vid, I ran solo so we should be able to hear the car....should be cool. Hopefully my buddy Doug will have it soon!

The 1.4 feels like the seat gets ripped out from under you, seriously. Can't imagine what the AWD guys running 1.2X feels like!

[Nate Crisman]

I think the most awesome part of the whole thing is that you were able to nail 1.50 to 1.48 60' times over and over and over without breaking and with the ET being consisitent. Who would ever guess a "record ET" type car would also have bracket racer consistency.

I may have you by .05 on the 14B record, but seriously, your car is so much better put together, consistent, reliable, and actually raceable. Why don't you find a cheap single fogger nitrous kit and stick it on over winter. I bet you see 10's on your first three passes with a small 50 shot. It would be so much cooler IMHO to keep the 14b on for a bit longer.

[Phil1320]

Originally Posted by carfanatic_88

Just nuts!!! great driving man!!

Thank you very much! Again, I'm glad you're up here with the support. You have a sick small turbo car yourself and I'm interested in hearing more about it in the future.

[SBstar]

That's amazing, perhaps a couple years down the road I'll be able to afford the suspension/slicks stuff to see something like a 1.4. Can't wait to get Link and set up the stutter box, although I have the feeling I'll just start spinning off the line like crazy on street tires. Next year should be fun. While I tend to agree improvements are getting harder to come by, I don't think you've exhausted it yet, a set of cams, better fmic or liquid to air, possibly an extrude honed intake mani (another thought is a 2g head w/evo III intake mani, supposed to be a midrange monster), there is a laundry list of stuff you can always still add. But at this point why, I've always liked the minimalist approach you've taken with the 14b, not adding stuff until you've exhausted what you have. So like I said, sit back on the 14b awd w/out nitrous throne for a second and enjoy the view. haha!

[Phil1320]

Originally Posted by Nate Crisman

I think the most awesome part of the whole thing is that you were able to nail 1.50 to 1.48 60' times over and over and over without breaking and with the ET being consisitent. Who would ever guess a "record ET" type car would also have bracket racer consistency.

I may have you by .05 on the 14B record, but seriously, your car is so much better put together, consistent, reliable, and actually raceable. Why don't you find a cheap single fogger nitrous kit and stick it on over winter. I bet you see 10's on your first three passes with a small 50 shot. It would be so much cooler IMHO to keep the 14b on for a bit longer.

Thanks Nate! It was definitely consistent. Yes, sure the stutter helps the launch, but before that, I was still pretty spot on with my launches, but mid 1.5's.

Thanks for the props on the car itself, I definitely appreciate it!

I did forget to mention in the initial post, that based on yesterday's performance, I WILL KEEP THE 14B ON THE CAR AND CONTINUE TO DRAG RACE! However, I don't know if I could do the NOS thing. I think I'm biding my time with the engine as it is.....but, I would gather 10's wouldn't be out of the question. With the stock head gasket and original internals, I don't know what the reliability would be. I appreciate the vote though!

Originally Posted by SBstar

That's amazing, perhaps a couple years down the road I'll be able to afford the suspension/slicks stuff to see something like a 1.4. Can't wait to get Link and set up the stutter box, although I have the feeling I'll just start spinning off the line like crazy on street tires. Next year should be fun. While I tend to agree improvements are getting harder to come by, I don't think you've exhausted it yet, a set of cams, better fmic or liquid to air, possibly an extrude honed intake mani (another thought is a 2g head w/evo III intake mani, supposed to be a midrange monster), there is a laundry list of stuff you can always still add. But at this point why, I've always liked the minimalist approach you've taken with the 14b, not adding stuff until you've exhausted what you have. So like I said, sit back on the 14b awd w/out nitrous throne for a second and enjoy the view. haha!

Shane, I'm sure you will come along with your project. Anything I can offer or help out with I will for sure, you know that. What you know now is that 1.4's are not out of the question with a 14b powered car. I think I might be the only one with 1.4 60's on the 14b. Not sure if Joe B. pulled any with his car. Damn, forgot to include him on my list, gotta go fix that!

I may try for the Extrude hone intake and ETS FMIC. Not sure I would go air-to-water because I can't run that at the road course, and even though it may be years til that happens, I would then have to buy another kit.

I do have the cams, yes, I may actually put them in for next year, I need more power!

I have the rear 1/4 lexan left and the Polk A-arms. They will help counter the weight of the cage.

I guess the VR-4 gets no mods at all!!!!!!!

[bullettdsm]

Originally Posted by Phil1320

A true friend that I appreciate very much, especially when it comes to what we love to do most=RACE!......Yes, I said you are an inspiration, I'll never forget

You guys are aware that he is still under the influence of "racing adrenaline" right ?

Hey, thanks for posting up the kind words, Phil. Very cool. You know this is all about having fun. I'd say there's some fun to be had here

Originally Posted by Phil1320

1.4X 60's feel incredible. Obviously due in part to the stutterbox.

As I said before 1.4's are doable but would require some work. The stutterbox gave you the tool, it was up to you to get there. You got there with consistency

Originally Posted by SBstar

I don't think you've exhausted it yet, a set of cams, better fmic........I've always liked the minimalist approach you've taken with the 14b, not adding stuff until you've exhausted what you have. So like I said, sit back on the 14b awd w/out nitrous throne for a second and enjoy the view. haha!

Look at Shane go. IMO right on the money. Phil, I know these were made specific to the 14b, did they ever tell you numbers or where they tried to keep/add power with those?

Nice racing Rhil. Guys the good thing about Phil is that you can give anybody analysis on what you saw on the run, but Phil actually takes that info and works it into his runs. Makes it a whole lot easier to help.

MB

[Gooberlog]

Congrats Phil!
I know how much you wanted that <11.50 pass, and you got it. I have never met anyone so determined to run such a respectable time with so little help from the car and the parts on it. You are definitely one hell of a driver! I'm really glad you stuck it out and didn't loose hope for this season. Even if you ended the season with out this trip to the track, it would have been a good season ender, but now you can enjoy the snowy winter knowing that you've accomplished your goals in full.
I'm glad you've decided to spend some more time on the straight line before you throw that towel in and head for the twisties.

I can't believe the 60' times you and your car are putting down. I mean a 1.4* is getting it done, or shall I say again, "Letting 'er eat!" My best 60' time in a dsm ever was a 1.67 and i described that as a modern roller coaster that goes from a dead stop to hauling a$$, and another 2/10 off that must feel down right scary. It really says something about your driving that you dropped over half a second with in three trips to the track this year and the only changes were basically some weight mods, slicks, and eprom chips. We all know that dropping a 1/2 second off your e/t when your already in the low 12's to 11's is hard work, and to do that with out making much more power is awesome.

I forgot about that time when i brought the Evo by the shop. I was one of three Mitsu Techs at Carmax Mitsubishi, and the new '03 Evo 8's just came in on the car carrier. I pulled the plastic off, put the tag bracket on, grabbed a dealer tag and drove that beast a couple miles up the road to Extreme Motorsports for the guys up there to check it out. I remember you and Archie thought it was the coolest thing. I knew it would mean a lot to you guys to be able to check it out in person before the public even had a chance. It made me happy to know you guys and let you check it out. I just wanted to share the fun.

It sounds like you have some more parts to experiment with once you get some time for it and some track time to test and tune next season. This really makes me want to work even harder to get some better compression and break my own records. After this experience at the track, I personally would focus on making the talon fastER and just keep the galant in good condition with some light mods. I forgot to ask, what fuel were you running? Keep us updated and great job Phil.

[Phil1320]

Originally Posted by bullettdsm

You guys are aware that he is still under the influence of "racing adrenaline" right ?

Hey, thanks for posting up the kind words, Phil. Very cool. You know this is all about having fun. I'd say there's some fun to be had here


As I said before 1.4's are doable but would require some work. The stutterbox gave you the tool, it was up to you to get there. You got there with consistency


Look at Shane go. IMO right on the money. Phil, I know these were made specific to the 14b, did they ever tell you numbers or where they tried to keep/add power with those?

Nice racing Rhil. Guys the good thing about Phil is that you can give anybody analysis on what you saw on the run, but Phil actually takes that info and works it into his runs. Makes it a whole lot easier to help.

MB

Funny as hell Mark! Anytime....it's true! Thanks for the props! Alot of the time, people on the outside have more faith in me than I do. That's not neccesarily a bad thing, just two perspectives. But, on my part, that's generally beforehand, when it's on the line, I'm happy that I can deliver the goods! Imagine what can happen once I fully believe in myself Not exactly funny but I'm rollin with it. YES, there was plenty of fun and that will continue I'm sure. By the way guys, Bullett is right, I'm sitting here typing and recollecting yesterday, and I'm pumped up just like before I pull to the line....still.......it's a unique feeling, nerves, some numbness in my arms....but, cool as hell. It's THAT feeling that I love about all this.

The cams......as far as I remember they are 251/253 designed for use "IN" the 14b powerband which should cater to my stock intake manifold still being on the car. On the paperwork I have it states that power will drop off at approx. 6500 and gives me timing instructions to bump power above 6500, but at the sacrifice of ALOT of the big low-midrange punch. That's the story with those. They may be the e-ticket to LOW 11's. They are now very relevant in this continuing conversation.

Again, thanks for the ongoing support Mark!

Let's talk guys...........

[TSIMonsteR]

thats awesome! congrats

[Phil1320]

Originally Posted by Gooberlog

Congrats Phil!
I know how much you wanted that <11.50 pass, and you got it. I have never met anyone so determined to run such a respectable time with so little help from the car and the parts on it. You are definitely one hell of a driver! I'm really glad you stuck it out and didn't loose hope for this season. Even if you ended the season with out this trip to the track, it would have been a good season ender, but now you can enjoy the snowy winter knowing that you've accomplished your goals in full.
I'm glad you've decided to spend some more time on the straight line before you throw that towel in and head for the twisties.

I can't believe the 60' times you and your car are putting down. I mean a 1.4* is getting it done, or shall I say again, "Letting 'er eat!" My best 60' time in a dsm ever was a 1.67 and i described that as a modern roller coaster that goes from a dead stop to hauling a$$, and another 2/10 off that must feel down right scary. It really says something about your driving that you dropped over half a second with in three trips to the track this year and the only changes were basically some weight mods, slicks, and eprom chips. We all know that dropping a 1/2 second off your e/t when your already in the low 12's to 11's is hard work, and to do that with out making much more power is awesome.

I forgot about that time when i brought the Evo by the shop. I was one of three Mitsu Techs at Carmax Mitsubishi, and the new '03 Evo 8's just came in on the car carrier. I pulled the plastic off, put the tag bracket on, grabbed a dealer tag and drove that beast a couple miles up the road to Extreme Motorsports for the guys up there to check it out. I remember you and Archie thought it was the coolest thing. I knew it would mean a lot to you guys to be able to check it out in person before the public even had a chance. It made me happy to know you guys and let you check it out. I just wanted to share the fun.

It sounds like you have some more parts to experiment with once you get some time for it and some track time to test and tune next season. This really makes me want to work even harder to get some better compression and break my own records. After this experience at the track, I personally would focus on making the talon fastER and just keep the galant in good condition with some light mods. I forgot to ask, what fuel were you running? Keep us updated and great job Phil.

Thanks Travis!!!! Yes, after July's outing, and meeting goals set for that day, the logical goal for yesterday was to go sub 11.50 and that would include obviously, moving up another spot in the rankings. Obviously, I was able to do that.......ever so slightly. Dave's car has a fairly significant power advantage, heavier than me by several hundred pounds and still hitting 118 MPH, it took all the advantage in the launch and the first half of the track the the Talon had to JUST edge his 11.51 ET. We both arrive at our very close ET's different ways, my combo is quicker the first 1/8, he's quicker the second 1/8 but I just edge him out. I'm visualizing a hypothetical run in my head, pretty cool. I can only imagine what the car would run with that edge in power. 30 AWHP is alot of extra power.

So, yes, will contemplate some new components for the car. I know I have been using the minimalist approach, as SBstar admires. I do myself as well. But, if we aren't there now, the brick wall is right around the corner without some changes. Going by the track of reducing ET this year, there may be another .05 or so left dangling. It has been consistently harder to drop ET at each visit to the track and I don't see it getting easier!

I'll hope that collectively we'll come up with a good set-up for next year.

The one thing that I wanted to throw out there for any comments on, especially pneumo, is this: In July, about 82 degrees, once in 4th gear for the long pull over the second 1/8, my wideband read 12.2 with some flickers to 12.4. I remember Extreme used to tune to 12.2 on race gas. This time out, 51 degrees, and the wideband read about 11.7 on average. So I pulled 1% at the three highest settings but that wasn't really enough to make any sort of difference as far as I can see.......but, I might have done that right before the 11.59 and 11.49..............the last two passes....

Just another tid-bit from the day.

Oh, and, hell yeah, the 60's times I am super psyched about!

Thanks alot for the props Travis!!!!!

Those were some fun times at Extreme!

The Galant was only going to get light mods anyway, mainly by the way of suspension, brakes, and wheels/tires. So, no biggie there!

Originally Posted by TSIMonsteR

thats awesome! congrats

Thanks very much for the props and for reading!

[RedEyeBanDiT]

Now since you met your goal, you should share all the little tips and tricks you've done. They obviously all add up.

Btw Im curious on how you made that intake in your headlight with the maf still attached?

[Phil1320]

Originally Posted by RedEyeBanDiT

Now since you met your goal, you should share all the little tips and tricks you've done. They obviously all add up.

Btw Im curious on how you made that intake in your headlight with the maf still attached?

I will most likely start a blog to cover all things 14b. It was recommended to me to do so and it would be my first, so watch for that!

Remember, once one goal is met, another one is set...

I'm not sure I'm understanding your question about my headlight intake.....? The MAF and air filter still sit in the factory location, it is not a direct RAM-AIR set-up if that's what you mean.....

[pneumo]

Congratz Phil!!!
That's an awesome time and a great 60' time! I'm glad I played a small part in this, it's exciting for me, too! I'm amazed at how quickly you learned the stutterbox launch, I was afraid it might throw off your driving but it looks like you nailed it. I mean, pulling a 1.48 on your third launch is just about the quickest learning curve I've seen. I'm glad we sent several PM's back and forth to discuss where to set the stutterbox rpm and how to use it.

Record runs like this benefit the entire DSM community. We all learn a little from your posts, including me. Your car might not make the power that mine made on the 14b, but you're definately driving closer to the limit than I am. I'm hoping to take a little bit of your expertise with me on my next track day.

Originally Posted by SBstar

another thought is a 2g head w/evo III intake mani, supposed to be a midrange monster

Are you reading my mind?!? Just last night I brought home a 2G head and an evo III intake mani!
I damaged the head that's currently on the car so I needed another. I was weary of the huge lag from running a big turbo, big cams, and smim so I thought I'd try something that had better midrange punch but still had good topend, too. That's why I decided to try the 2G head/evo III intake combination. I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence that this combo might be perfect for another 14b record attempt. I guess we'll find out next spring when my smog check is due because that's when I have to install the 14b again.

So don't get too comfortable.......

[SBstar]

Originally Posted by pneumo

Congratz Phil!!!
That's an awesome time and a great 60' time! I'm glad I played a small part in this, it's exciting for me, too! I'm amazed at how quickly you learned the stutterbox launch, I was afraid it might throw off your driving but it looks like you nailed it. I mean, pulling a 1.48 on your third launch is just about the quickest learning curve I've seen. I'm glad we sent several PM's back and forth to discuss where to set the stutterbox rpm and how to use it.

Record runs like this benefit the entire DSM community. We all learn a little from your posts, including me. Your car might not make the power that mine made on the 14b, but you're definately driving closer to the limit than I am. I'm hoping to take a little bit of your expertise with me on my next track day.


Are you reading my mind?!? Just last night I brought home a 2G head and an evo III intake mani!
I damaged the head that's currently on the car so I needed another. I was weary of the huge lag from running a big turbo, big cams, and smim so I thought I'd try something that had better midrange punch but still had good topend, too. That's why I decided to try the 2G head/evo III intake combination. I'm not sure if it's just a coincidence that this combo might be perfect for another 14b record attempt. I guess we'll find out next spring when my smog check is due because that's when I have to install the 14b again.

So don't get too comfortable.......

I think maybe you read mine, I've been planning that out for a little over a year. There have been alot of little things that I've stored away in my mind for future 14b use, things that I think will work. I have no reason not to share them with guys who actually have the ability to get it done now, whereas my project won't really hit the ground for another year or two, plus I get to sit back and see what works and what doesn't. You guys are a true inspiration, I honestly can't say that I don't want to chase you all down and take the record someday, but the truth is I think 11's period are extremely impressive on the 14b and that is my true "Goal" with my project. I tell the local guys who have known me as the local "14b guy" that once I hit 11's I'll decide wether or not I want to chase records or upgrade to something like an EvoIII and just enjoy racing.

Another thing to throw out to you guys, although both of you are already set on cams, is the idea of the dual intake cam. I only know of one person who has ever done it, but they utilized dual stock intake cams, using one as an exhaust cam. Timing of course is a pain in the butt to get figured out but apparently they saw great increases in torque and hp. You guys who understand the mechanics of this stuff can probably chime in on how that would work out.

Good to hear you're thinking about taking the 14b back out again too Dave! It'd be great to see you guys take this further. Keep on paving the path for me fella's I'll catch up in a year or two haha!

[pneumo]

Originally Posted by SBstar

Another thing to throw out to you guys, although both of you are already set on cams, is the idea of the dual intake cam. I only know of one person who has ever done it, but they utilized dual stock intake cams, using one as an exhaust cam. Timing of course is a pain in the butt to get figured out but apparently they saw great increases in torque and hp. You guys who understand the mechanics of this stuff can probably chime in on how that would work out.

The stock DSM intake cam has more lift than some model year DSM exhaust cams, so using one of the better intake cams on the exhaust side might help a little. There are a few cam threads showing that the D/C intake/exhaust combo was the best of all stock cams. If you have a C exhaust cam then there's not much benefit to swapping an intake cam except it will have different open/close timing. IMHO there's more to be gained from adjustable cam gears than from swapping different year stock cams. Remember, I broke Leon's record with an 11.59 by using adjustable cam gears on a 1990 intake cam and 2G exhaust cam, which are not the best stock cams. I'm considering using dual evo 8 intake cams since they have just a little more lift and duration than stock DSM cams.

Originally Posted by SBstar

Good to hear you're thinking about taking the 14b back out again too Dave! It'd be great to see you guys take this further. Keep on paving the path for me fella's I'll catch up in a year or two haha!

Not just paving the path, we're raising the bar too!

[Phil1320]

A couple of pics while we wait for some VIDS!

Originally Posted by pneumo

Congratz Phil!!!
That's an awesome time and a great 60' time! I'm glad I played a small part in this, it's exciting for me, too! I'm amazed at how quickly you learned the stutterbox launch, I was afraid it might throw off your driving but it looks like you nailed it. I mean, pulling a 1.48 on your third launch is just about the quickest learning curve I've seen. I'm glad we sent several PM's back and forth to discuss where to set the stutterbox rpm and how to use it.

Record runs like this benefit the entire DSM community. We all learn a little from your posts, including me. Your car might not make the power that mine made on the 14b, but you're definately driving closer to the limit than I am. I'm hoping to take a little bit of your expertise with me on my next track day.




So don't get too comfortable.......

Thanks Alot Dave!!!

Most definitely played a part in this!

Yes, we definitely got the stutter set properly, and installed properly!

I thought I might have a bit of a problem with learning it as well. You see on the second launch, I had the clutch pedal up too high and it rolled through, redlighting, I think I was as deeply staged(not on purpose) as I could be without turning the "pre" light off. No biggie......but, for sure that run felt as good as the others, so I'm sure it was an 11.6 with about a 1.50 60'.

I'm happy I picked it up quickly and got right down to business. Anyone that has known me over the 13 years with the Talon will tell you I take the driving seriously. I was a smart driver in the past as I knew I had a 100 mile trek home. Yep, I coulda went quicker most likely, but, I drove home EVERY time. Friday was no walk in the park. As I said earlier there were several oil downs and I got there late(story later) as well.

I'm glad you can learn from my accomplishments as well Dave! I hope we can continue to break new ground in the future! I appreciate that you think this is of value to all the DSM community! I'm glad and I hope that it really is!

I am definitely not leaving much on the table, if anything at all, in the driving dept. In the past, that was different, there was always more on the table. Most likely a part of why I could never crack that 12.0 nut. Thank you for the props on my driving and I hope you will take some of that with you to the strip next time for sure. I definitely want to see you back on the 14b, really! It should be cool.

So, no, I won't get too comfortable!!!!!!!

But, hey, I'm really not an overall record holder at this time, Joe B. is still in front of us! And, NOS or not, Nate is still ahead by .05. So, I set goals incrementally. As SBstar says though, I will sit back on the Lazyboy(I do have two of them so this isn't just words,) and enjoy the view. I held the ALL-TIME record for 8 months before Leon went 11's and grabbed the title back. Not a bad reign. But, in order to reign supreme, Joe B. must go down!


Thanks again for everything Dave! Now get the 14b back on your car and stop playing with the big turbos and hanging around with all those boring, big power,10 second DSM guys


Just a few notes relative to the thread:

#1 - I've actually run a quicker 1/8 mile than Nate on his 11.44 run, he ran 7.30 to my 7.27......so only Joe B. has run quicker to the 1/8 mile.

#2 - I couldn't find my old time sheets when Joe B. had run the 10.84, just after on the NOS...10.61...this had a 6.89 1/8 mile. However, I found slips scanned on his site for 10.87 and 10.92 NO NOS runs, with 1/8 mile at 6.99 and 7.02 respectively. My estimate is that on his quickest NO NOS run of 10.84 he ran a 6.97 1/8 mile. I'm three tenths away.....still a stretch, but, I can see beating his 1/8 mile time in the future far before being able to come near the 10.84.

#3 - On Joe's 10.87 pass, he ran 4.57 to the 330' mark. On my 11.49 I was there in 4.66, within a tenth...so it's a close race to the 330' with me getting him out of the hole and then he immediately is reeling me in and passing, hypothetically speaking.

#4 - I see no evidence that Joe B. has run 1.4X 60' times, not on any runs that I could find, or on his record runs. His record 16g NOS run shows a 1.569 and that is the best I have found on him. So, it's possible I stand on my own in that category.


That's it!

Originally Posted by SBstar

Another thing to throw out to you guys, although both of you are already set on cams, is the idea of the dual intake cam. I only know of one person who has ever done it, but they utilized dual stock intake cams, using one as an exhaust cam. Timing of course is a pain in the butt to get figured out but apparently they saw great increases in torque and hp. You guys who understand the mechanics of this stuff can probably chime in on how that would work out.

Good to hear you're thinking about taking the 14b back out again too Dave! It'd be great to see you guys take this further. Keep on paving the path for me fella's I'll catch up in a year or two haha!

We will definitely take it further! You'll start heading in the right direction next season for sure....we will have you at no less than low 12's if you're car is running well and reliable!

[camfast]

Congratulations Phil! I remember when I had my first dsm back in 02, you were running 12.30s on the same motor and 14b! Now you are about to break more records. I think that with an ets fmic and extrude im you should definately sqeeze 2 or 3 mph.

[Phil1320]

Originally Posted by camfast

Congratulations Phil! I remember when I had my first dsm back in 02, you were running 12.30s on the same motor and 14b! Now you are about to break more records. I think that with an ets fmic and extrude im you should definately sqeeze 2 or 3 mph.

Thank you very much! Killer to know you have followed what I'm doing since way back then. I'm trying my best to do as much as I can with the smallest of changes each time out. I do think the ETS FMIC and the Extrudehone intake mani might make it under the Christmas tree if that stuff fits down the chimney!!!

Honestly, I do believe those components will fit into next years effort and I hope your estimation is right, but, the MPH is not so important as the ET is to me so I hope it translates into that as well

[fastrst]

congrats phil great times.

[islideawd]

wow congrats man you got that lil 14b haulin

[bullettdsm]

Funny thing was that pic of the time was up for like a half hour. It was the last pass of the day before they found someone had wet the track down for good and ended the day. So it stayed up.

MB

[Phil1320]

Originally Posted by fastrst

congrats phil great times.

Thanks brother! You should come around more often!

Originally Posted by islideawd

wow congrats man you got that lil 14b haulin

Thanks! I appreciate the interest!!!

Originally Posted by bullettdsm

Funny thing was that pic of the time was up for like a half hour. It was the last pass of the day before they found someone had wet the track down for good and ended the day. So it stayed up.

MB

That's right! And the crazy thing is that the car that wet the track down, did it on the run RIGHT BEFORE mine in the SAME lane! Yes, they let me run, I ran the 11.49, and THEN they shut the track down for the day. I was the last pass.

I'm happy I got that last run in, but, jeez, what the heck did they miss when they let me run? I probably don't want to know.......it had me wondering if I blew something for a minute............

Also, everyone, that's Bullett's 420A turbo monster on the trailer next to mine.......11.40@119 with more to come!

[Gooberlog]

Originally Posted by bullettdsm

Funny thing was that pic of the time was up for like a half hour. It was the last pass of the day before they found someone had wet the track down for good and ended the day. So it stayed up.

MB

That's awesome. Kind of like "Unbelievable, a stock turbo talon ran mid 11's?!"

Good stuff Phil, pics look good and can't wait for the vid. Post on this thread when you open up the blog so we can all wander over there.

[Phil1320]

Originally Posted by Gooberlog

That's awesome. Kind of like "Unbelievable, a stock turbo talon ran mid 11's?!"

Good stuff Phil, pics look good and can't wait for the vid. Post on this thread when you open up the blog so we can all wander over there.

Ha! Maybe so....

Thanks!!! I can't wait either!

I will definitely do that when I start the blog........

Just found this:

http://photosbyjim.smugmug.com/Other...90295503_nz5U5

and this:

http://photosbyjim.smugmug.com/Other...90314260_rGJZn

http://photosbyjim.smugmug.com/Other...90727047_yvtSB

http://photosbyjim.smugmug.com/Other...90727228_XS3hX

http://photosbyjim.smugmug.com/Other...90727228_XS3hX

http://photosbyjim.smugmug.com/Other...90736707_6brE5

http://photosbyjim.smugmug.com/Other...90789779_zz6Ei

The launch on the 11.49:

http://photosbyjim.smugmug.com/Other...90798088_AcU6e

This is the guy's photos that I'm hoping he will release for use in the DSMtuners calendar...........

[Gooberlog]

That's awesome seeing the wrinkle in the slicks on a dsm. Usually when i see that at the track is on a mustang or a Cam-arrow. That evo in the pics was squatting pretty good too.

+1 vote for Calendar pics

Phil- What fuel were you running and what coil overs and shocks do you have?

[Phil1320]

Originally Posted by Gooberlog

That's awesome seeing the wrinkle in the slicks on a dsm. Usually when i see that at the track is on a mustang or a Cam-arrow. That evo in the pics was squatting pretty good too.

+1 vote for Calendar pics

Phil- What fuel were you running and what coil overs and shocks do you have?

Thanks! Those pics are really awesome! Yes, there were some cool cars at that event.

Sorry, you asked that before.....VP C16 117 Octane. I have JIC coilovers in there Trav........

[bullettdsm]

Hmm, so I looked through those pics Phil. I do like the positioning of the body and weight transfer on launch. She looks like she is sitting very well. I would like to see some pics of the back end too. So we can see the tire squat.

MB