terrible time on AWD Turbo

[marcelo_caz]

Hi
Im new to this forum and I have a 92 Laser RS AWD turbo with little basic mods.

My problem is that I have 3 timeslip with low 16 seconds (I heard that stock dsm's are suppoust to do on at least mid 15 seconds). The car lunches good and everything, but when I get around 2nd to 3rd gear, my car just slows down and dont go any faster, some people says that its fuel cut. but i dont know. Can any one help me with this, with any tips, what can I do to make it better? My goal for this year is to at least get high 14s.
(on january im getting the EVO III manifold, change the valve seals because my car is burning a lot oil, puting the 3g lifters, and maybe even a nice new muffler to like nice.)

Is anything I sayd is normal for dsm begginers, or im just the lucky one that got the slow dsm?

 

[winterftbl]

Well first of all I would say to do all the maintenance before you start beating on your car. Also get a logger to make sure your car is running right because you should be getting better times with your car.
Good luck and Welcome

 

[talontd92tsi]

Hi
Im new to this forum and I have a 92 Laser RS AWD turbo with little basic mods.

My problem is that I have 3 timeslip with low 16 seconds (I heard that stock dsm's are suppoust to do on at least mid 15 seconds). The car lunches good and everything, but when I get around 2nd to 3rd gear, my car just slows down and dont go any faster, some people says that its fuel cut. but i dont know. Can any one help me with this, with any tips, what can I do to make it better? My goal for this year is to at least get high 14s.
(on january im getting the EVO III manifold, change the valve seals because my car is burning a lot oil, puting the 3g lifters, and maybe even a nice new muffler to like nice.)

Is anything I sayd is normal for dsm begginers, or im just the lucky one that got the slow dsm?

sounds like you have phantom knock, or a shot knock, or o2 sensor.

and do your matinence... now.

 

[TimG]

Boost leak test. Search about it and do it. It'll likely be your problem.

In conjunction with the boost leak test, some new spark plugs will help. I will suggest NGK BPR6ES for your application.

 

[Zenja]

A boost leak test is always a great idea, but unless it's really severe, it definitely sounds like your car is picking up knock and pulling back a lot of timing and boost to compensate. This could be real knock, or probably more likely something we call phantom knock, which is when the ECU detects a lot of knock that isn't actually detonation but some sort of unrelated mechanical noise. Or, if it really falls completely flat, it could be an ignition problem.

 

[Afroclipse]

you have a performance car the muffler doesn't help, save it for a cute DD, other than that upgrade your whole exhaust or least get a cat-back. I personally got a 3inch catback and am getting a 3inch downpipe soon. free up all your restrictions please.

 

[talon187]

i would say get some ngk plugs and wires change all fluids. change the knock sensor how much boost are you running? boost controller?

 

[marcelo_caz]

Thanks for the tips everyone.
I already have done all the manitence on the car.
I do have the NGK spark plugs.. i dont kno which number they are, but i know it as one of the expensive ones. And about the muffler, mine is going a little old and its nice to have a new shine one in there, I already got a full 3" exaust all the way from the motor to back there.. i made it in a muffler shop, so it fits prety nice in there.

But im gonna see about the phanton knock... it might be it.

 

[JusMX141]

Check the connection where the upper intercooler hose mounts to the neck of the intercooler. This area is notorious for getting pinhole boost leaks because road grime gets between the hose and the aluminum neck and rots it where you can't see it. It's the #1 killer of stock DSM's in my area because of the road salt used during the winters.

It was mentioned above, but I second the knock sensor suggestion too. A bad sensor could read phantom knock which triggers your ECU to pull timing. It will feel like you're pulling a trailer under boost.

 

[marcelo_caz]

The sensor you mean is the O2 sensor?

 

[SOADweskey]

jusmx 141 was referring to your knock sensor. If it goes bad then your ECU will pull timing when it doesn't have to. This sensor is located on the back of your engine block below the intake manifold. It is easiest to see from the bottom by removing the bracket that supports the intake. Get to where you can see it and see if goo is coming out of it. You may have to remove your down pipe from your exhaust to get enough room to work.

 

[marcelo_caz]

How does the knock sensor works?
im kind new on cars, so im learning new things about it everyday.
how do I know its bad?
Is it simple to replace?

 

[marcelo_caz]

i would say get some ngk plugs and wires change all fluids. change the knock sensor how much boost are you running? boost controller?

Fluids im always changing.. im paranoid ith that.
=p

I do have the NGK spark plugs, and im running 13 psi on a GFB boost controler.

 

[winterftbl]

get a logger, not very expensive and is worth it.

 

[SOADweskey]

How does the knock sensor works?
im kind new on cars, so im learning new things about it everyday.
how do I know its bad?
Is it simple to replace?

The knock sensor is like an electronic stethoscope that is threaded into your engine block. It can hear engine knock well before you could hear it in the car. It automatically pulls timing to prevent engine damage. Alot of times if it is bad then goo comes out of it where the wire goes in. There are also other checks to do. Search the forum for knock sensor. Changing it is really easy except for its location. but it is do-able going from the bottom and the only thing you have to remove is your downpipe and the bracket below the intake manifold.

+1 for getting a logger to help in checking of you do have phantom knock.

 

[forcefed4]

I do have the NGK spark plugs.. i dont kno which number they are, but i know it as one of the expensive ones.

Hopefully not platinum. If they are, change them to these: BPR6ES ,about $2 each. These cars like cheap plugs., Just make sure you have a good gap tool (not one of the $.99 ones), and get all the plugs set right.

Also, like everyone else is saying, boost leak test is a good idea.

 

[xtreme-elements]

you could defiantely do a boost leak test to make sure your not leaking under 2nd and 3dr gear pulls.. also you may want to get a logger to log your runs to see where you may be losing power..

 

[marcelo_caz]

So after reading all about this info... on january when I get back from my trip im going to change mine O2 sensor and mine knock sensor. Even if they are still good, its always nice to put a new one, im almost sure that my sensors are still the original ones from the car (16 years old car). About the logger im going to look it up. How much is one?

 

[twicks69]

Just to give a little advice on spark plugs, you should be currently running NGK spark plugs == you don't need the expensive ones; use BPR6ES for your 13psi. They should be around $1.25 a piece. The gap should be at 0.028" (which is what they come as out of the box -- check it either way).

When you start upping the boost, you can use NGK BPR7ES (a little hard to find), or use NGK BR7ES. Again, they are $1.25 a piece.

There is no need for iridium plugs for 1-2 HP more; especially when your motor already has problems.

You should perform a leak down test or compression test to see how the motor is doing -- if it is more than just valve seals; the piston rings might also be an issue.


Basic maintenence is key.

Also, could you please post the data from your runs, it would be interesting to see how much of it is from your driver skill also.

Post:
reaction time:
60'
330'
1/8 mi ET
1/8 mi MPH
1000'
1/4 mi ET
1/4 mi MPH


Also, the 3g lifters aren't necessary; if you are going to fully rebuild your cylinder head, then sure, but for now, make sure that it isn't your piston rings that is causing the oil burning problems. Is it under acceleration, decelleration, on startup, or on idle.

 

[marcelo_caz]

Just to give a little advice on spark plugs, you should be currently running NGK spark plugs == you don't need the expensive ones; use BPR6ES for your 13psi. They should be around $1.25 a piece. The gap should be at 0.028" (which is what they come as out of the box -- check it either way).

When you start upping the boost, you can use NGK BPR7ES (a little hard to find), or use NGK BR7ES. Again, they are $1.25 a piece.

There is no need for iridium plugs for 1-2 HP more; especially when your motor already has problems.

You should perform a leak down test or compression test to see how the motor is doing -- if it is more than just valve seals; the piston rings might also be an issue.


Basic maintenence is key.

Also, could you please post the data from your runs, it would be interesting to see how much of it is from your driver skill also.

Post:
reaction time:
60'
330'
1/8 mi ET
1/8 mi MPH
1000'
1/4 mi ET
1/4 mi MPH


Also, the 3g lifters aren't necessary; if you are going to fully rebuild your cylinder head, then sure, but for now, make sure that it isn't your piston rings that is causing the oil burning problems. Is it under acceleration, decelleration, on startup, or on idle.

Im going to keep my fancy NGK spark plugs, I just got them like 3 months ago.
heuwoehouuhew

the reason that im putting the 3g lifters its because this is going to be the second time I open the Head (first time was to change valves, caused by someone installing the time belt wrong) and on the first time, 3 of my lifters had something wrong, but i didnt had money to get new ones... so this time im gonna open again, and change it.. so hy not change for the 3g ones.

So these are my time slip from my last 3 runs.

Run: ----------- 1st -------- 2nd -------- 3rd
reaction time:-- 1.148 ----- 0.269 ------ 0.582
60' : ------------ 2.640 ----- 2.436 ------ 2.431
330' : ----------- .000 ------ 0.000 ------ 0.000
1/8 mi ET : ---- 10.786 ---- 12.462 ---- 10.113
1/8 mi MPH: --- 69.63 ----- 51.87 ------ 66.68
1000':---------- 13.353 ---- 14.337 ----- 11.151
1/4 mi ET : ---- 16.369 ---- 19.731 ----- 16.144
1/4 mi MPH: --- 87.59 ----- 69.61 ------ 80.65

the second run was when everything went wrong, the car basicly just stoped at full boost, the weirdest thing during the full run.

third run the car did the same thing during the 1000' and 1/4 mi. (the third run was against a sick 1991 talon. He did at 12.9s @106.62mi

I hope this help with something.

 

[twicks69]

This helps to show us that you need more time practicing your launch because your 60' times are about 7 tenths slower than what your car can really do on street tires.

Also, you are likely hitting fuel cut. Things that you can do to prevent fuel cut would be to first, upgrade your fuel pump to a Walboro 255HP in-tank pump ($90), and upgrade your injectors to a set of 550cc's. You should also get an Apex'i Super AFC (air/fuel controller piggyback), and a 2G (95-99) Mass Air Flow Meter (MAF) and intake pipe. You will need the harness pigtail to splice it into your factory harness.

Have you already done the other free mods?

Either way, your goal is to do a 1.7 second 60'.

 

[twicks69]

The search engine on this site is an invaluable resource to find help. I would use it to learn more about how to launch your car and what the modification upgrade path looks like, along with the free mods, etc.

Also, check out:
http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html
1000 Already Answered Questions - Index page
RRE's Eclipse Tech Tips and Magazine Articles
Buschur Racing - Your source for Mitsubishi racing parts and accessories
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/151980-free-mods-1g.html

etc.


Good luck!

 

[marcelo_caz]

This helps to show us that you need more time practicing your launch because your 60' times are about 7 tenths slower than what your car can really do on street tires.

Also, you are likely hitting fuel cut. Things that you can do to prevent fuel cut would be to first, upgrade your fuel pump to a Walboro 255HP in-tank pump ($90), and upgrade your injectors to a set of 550cc's. You should also get an Apex'i Super AFC (air/fuel controller piggyback), and a 2G (95-99) Mass Air Flow Meter (MAF) and intake pipe. You will need the harness pigtail to splice it into your factory harness.

Have you already done the other free mods?

Either way, your goal is to do a 1.7 second 60'.

Awsome... good to know this things.
I put a walbro 255hp on my car like 3 monrhs ago.
About the injectors, that is something that I really want to do maybe around spring, but I dont know if I get a 550cc or a 580cc. is there any major difference?

Is the apexi AFC helps on my fuel cut? how does it works?.

The air intake stuff, im probably going to work on those when I put my FMIC in, that will be probably on the summer hopefully.
heuoehuowhew


but thanks fot the tip... im gonna keep that 1.7 in mind.

 

[SOADweskey]

Your driving is in need of practice for sure. It took me a few trips out to the track to get my 60' times into the 1.7s on street tires and I still should be pulling faster ones with the aid of the dsmlink dual stage rev limiter. Practice helps as I have gotten better every time I have gone to the track.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I will suggest NGK BPR6ES for your application.

Hopefully not platinum. If they are, change them to these: BPR6ES ,about $2 each.

use BPR6ES for your 13psi. They should be around $1.25 a piece. The gap should be at 0.028" (which is what they come as out of the box -- check it either way).

Im going to keep my fancy NGK spark plugs, I just got them like 3 months ago.
heuwoehouuhew

Theres no point for us to give you advice if you throw the advice out the window. Those expensive plugs become a hot spot in the cylinder. This increases the chance of knock. When you engine hears knock it reduces performance to keep save itself. In addition to robbing power, you could be creating additional stress on the car which in turn is wearing those piston rings faster.

I don't know what you mean by "open the head." Are you talking the head off, or just taking off the valve cover. Either way, if you are replacing the valve seals and you already have 3g lifters, then go ahead and use them. If not, clean your factory ones and they will work just as well.

As for the performance issue. I ran a 14.6 on a near stock AWD Talon, the car only had a K&N intake, MSD 8.5mm ignition wires and the downpipe was broken at the flex section with free mods done, but I will still running the stock boost controller.


You listen to the senior folks hear and you will get your car up to par and running good times. But when you throw our advice out the window, then you make me think why bother.

Before you go racing the car, you need to find out why you are loosing power 16's is crap for an AWD DSM. You obviously have a problem.

Now are you willing to listen? Or are you going to do what you want anyways?