Where do 272 stop making power? Springs and Retainers need?

[CPHunter]

Just wanted to get my head started. I'm running a S362 Extended Tip. I don't want to rev to the moon, Just to where my 272 will stop making power gains and where the need to 280's is needed. Any Info would be great. Would Brian Crower Springs and retainers Single Springs Be Enough?

 

[4g64fiero]

Every 272 cam model is different....we need to know which cam you are referring to...

 

[viperlp01]

Well there pretty damn close... You can give him an estimate...

 

[Gamble97]

Well there pretty damn close... You can give him an estimate...

Ha, there is a fry cry difference between an HKS and a bc272.

To the OP, take your car on the dyno and see where power starts to drop off.

 

[jrohner]

It's not just the cams that decide how high of RPM you can make power to, the whole setup matters.

 

[TRBOBLU]

Well there pretty damn close... You can give him an estimate...

They are not pretty damn close. Look up the dyno charts from the Kelford 272's and tell me they are the same as HKS or BC.

 

[SBR Joe]

272's are enough cam for 90% of people out there with any given setup. My buddy is making 860awhp and hes using FP 272's and is working great. Also, you dont HAVE to use springs and retainers. I was using the aggressive 272's from FFWD for a while with stock springs and was revving it to 8600 all day. Not to say it wouldnt be a bad idea to have them just for security purposes...you just dont absolutely need them like you would if you had 280's or something of that nature.

 

[pboglio]

Get Desktop dyno and run a few simulations between different cam grinds, it'll give you a ball park idea.

 

[CPHunter]

thanks guys. I'm running HKS 272's. i wanted to safely run a 8.5k redline. I guess to the Dyno it is.

 

[andy4g63]

HKS's 272 is damn good cam. Friend of mine is still running them with GT 42R and the car trapped 130MPH in the 1/8 mile. He has custom gring cams, but he likes HKS's so much, that he is still runs them. His car makes somewhere in 950-1000WHP , so think about it. It actually revs so fast, like a bike. Just keep them .

 

[pboglio]

There are 272 cams out there that would crush the HKS 272's without the need to go to the HKS 280's. The EVO guys seem to like the 280's but I wouldn't go near them for my daily driver.

 

[cooldude919]

Im leaning towards comp's 101200 272's. Good bang for the buck?

 

[andy4g63]

I would buy HKS 272's period..

On the other hand, some cams like Kelford, advertised as 272, have nothing to do with 272's. Looking at their specs they are more like 288, or something. Certainly bigger, than280, so don't be mislead by that. They are great, just not 272.

 

[SBR Joe]

I would buy HKS 272's period..

On the other hand, some cams like Kelford, advertised as 272, have nothing to do with 272's. Looking at their specs they are more like 288, or something. Certainly bigger, than280, so don't be mislead by that. They are great, just not 272.

x2. HKS or Kelford. BUT if you dont want to spend that kind of $, the comp 101200's are a comparable option to the HKS 272's. Ive used them all. And id keep it to these top three.

 

[pboglio]

Here's a little info on some of the above mentioned cams:

hks 280's - Page 2 - evolutionm.net

 

[viperlp01]

you guys say that they arent that close then you start saying that these three are very comparable.. If you did your research you find the problems that people have with the BC.. They aren't degreed in ect... I was not even thinking about BC or really the comps.. I had hks and kelfords on my mind.. Im also thinking about a regrind from delta and people have had great success from them.. Ya have spend the money on dyno pulls so he can test which one responds better... Waste of alot of time and money.. Kelfords are proven day in and day out, hks is in the same boat.. If you want to be streetable and stick with stock springs then stay in the 272 range. If you want a bad ass stall and want to upgrade the springs then go for 280s..

 

[pboglio]

No, the Kelfords are rated at 272* at .1mm lift, and 226* duration at 1mm lift. The HKS 280's are 222 duration at 1mm lift. Technically the Kelfords are still 272's, just with a faster ramp rate and higher lift to name a few. This is why upgraded springs are generally accepted to be mandatory with these grinds. Proven cams both.

 

[4g64fiero]

you guys say that they arent that close then you start saying that these three are very comparable..

This is a fallacy of logic. 5 minutes at looking at the specs of most cams will reveal they are very different in some aspects yet "comparable" in some.... There is more to a cam than duration at .1 mm lift. You will find that researching this is a good way to know what your getting into.

ANY aftermarket cam should be degree'd in by the way. That is standard practice its just that the BC cams tend to be off more than more expensive brands.

 

[viperlp01]

I understand they are all "different" but his question was when he would stop making power. They are similar enough to give his an estimate. I would say you can make alot of power but i have no personal exp. Im going with a 272 delta regrind.-like 200 bucks.. Im not sure how they decide there numbers but i have been emailing them. I would say it is dependent on turbo size and amount of boost and street or strip..

The way i understand it 264 is pretty different from a 272 in all aspects between all companies and the same thing goes with the 280s..

 

[95gst16g]

I understand they are all "different" but his question was when he would stop making power. They are similar enough to give his an estimate. I would say you can make alot of power but i have no personal exp. Im going with a 272 delta regrind.-like 200 bucks.. Im not sure how they decide there numbers but i have been emailing them. I would say it is dependent on turbo size and amount of boost and street or strip..

The way i understand it 264 is pretty different from a 272 in all aspects between all companies and the same thing goes with the 280s..

Just had a great tune @22psi stock.I bought the delta 272s turned the boost down to like 14psi put my stock fuel map back because I'm parinoid of running lean.So overall the crappiest tune ever and I can honestly say these cams rape on the top end.I love them and they sound bad ass at idle.And the guy told me the 272 grind is based off the HKS cams.

 

[AndrewD5418]

There are 272 cams out there that would crush the HKS 272's without the need to go to the HKS 280's. The EVO guys seem to like the 280's but I wouldn't go near them for my daily driver.

I'm sure some of those require you to degree too. HKS you can just drop in and go.

 

[pboglio]

Kelfords have been known to be tossed in without degreeing and have quite good driveability. Same can't be said for other brands. HKS are fine, but at some point you want to upgrade to something with alot more "bite". This is why I didn't upgrade from my HKS 264's to HKS 272's or HKS 280's, the Kelfords have an assload more topend than any of those options. Upgraded springs and adjustable cam gears is just the price of admission for the more radical cams, I'm O.K. with that.

If I recall correctly, Buschur dynoed tested the HKS 272's and HKS 280's on his stock turbo EVO and picked up something like +15 h.p. between the two, mostly from being able to retune the motor more aggressively due to lower backpressure or something like that. Got the link somewhere, anyway, that to me isn't enough of a gain, hence I went "bigger".

 

[andy4g63]

^^^ Thanks for the info pbolio, but isn't duration, like 272, 280,288,etc, how the cams are rated from manufacturer?. Why are saying that a cam with 226* REAL duration is 272, when 280 cam has shorter 222* duration???

272, 280 is just a nomenclature from manufacturer, but all of these cams with the same duration/period when valve stays open/ , shouldn't they be close in REAL duration, or about the same???

 

[e85_4g63]

Manufatures use "272" like the use stages for clutches, like a stage 2 clutch. 264, 272, 280, 288, etc.

 

[pboglio]

^^^ Thanks for the info pbolio, but isn't duration, like 272, 280,288,etc, how the cams are rated from manufacturer?. Why are saying that a cam with 226* REAL duration is 272, when 280 cam has shorter 222* duration???

272, 280 is just a nomenclature from manufacturer, but all of these cams with the same duration/period when valve stays open/ , shouldn't they be close in REAL duration, or about the same???

Cam grind profiles can be any combination of duration, intake/exhaust valve closing angles, ramp rate, max lift, etc. Think of the cam lift vs. duration profile as looking like a sine wave. That 280* cam might hit .004" lift earlier, but the Kelford 272* cam might hit .040" faster because of a steeper ramp profile. That .040" lift is more important since its a lift that actually allows measurable airflow thru the valve.

The cam suppliers would prefer to advertise the "larger" duration value rather than the duration at standard lift which is a smaller value. Thats why you have to look at the cam cards to get a better idea of what type of cam your really getting.