New BC272s hitting/grinding cam caps.

[talonalex92]

To make a long story short, I bought new cams and installed them about 3/4 weeks ago. Car was running amazingly. I got this horrid god awful noise. I trailered my car to my moms garage, to work on it out of weather, to find that its from the top end. Took timing covers and accessory belts off, still noise. Pulled intake mani off, nothing broken back there, or vibrating or hitting the block. Pulled the valve cover and started car. LOUD noise. Hm. Upon further inspection, I notice my cams are...offset? They are wearing in the center of the lobes like normal on the 2 cylinders closest to the timing side, the 2 towards the passenger side, are riding on the far far left of the lobe, the rocker is parallel with the lobe. Its vary off center, both cams are the same way. In further inspection, my intake cam is hitting and slowly grinding away at the number 5 cap. Im working with the vendor, nameless, and im wondering if this ruined my head. The cam journal seems fine on that section. No scoring, no marks. The cap is vary rough, small lined gouges through the length of it. Im assuming the metal shaved off the cap, slid in there. Im also assuming the caps are bad. Any one have insight to this happening to them with BC cams? Will my head be ok? Im assuming the caps are shot. Ill be posting pictures later, when im off work but that's as specific as I can get. Im hoping my vendor will take care of it all, at fault of BC. Anyone have any similar situations with the cams, head or a defective item ruining something? Did it get taken care of? There is no install error, they go in one way, one way only. Its physically impossible to install them wrong and have the car run. Also, its physically impossible to get the caps wrong. God. Someone tell me something. Gr.

 

[bling5tatus]

No, it's not physically impossible to get the caps wrong... they're numbered and if they don't go right back on the same place they came off then that's your problem.... also on a 2g I imagine you can install the intake/exhaust cams backwards... being that there's no CAS... although I'm not 100% on that so I may be wrong.

 

[talonalex92]

Yeah, you are wrong. Mines a 98, I have a cam sensor where the 1gs do. And yes, it is impossible to get them wrong. They are in order, that's about all you can mess up. They can't be put on upside down. There is different lips on each side. Ones about 1/4 inch bigger, it wouldn't line the holes up.

 

[diambo4life]

That's just the thing. The cap has to go EXACTLY where it was originally. They are location and head specific. That ensures complete roundness. First thing I would do is check the TQ spec on all the caps. If some are tightened too much or not tightened enough, you WILL have that problem because of the cams wobbling. Secondly, check all caps one by one and make sure each cap is at it's specific location as outlined by the FSM. I can almost guarantee you that this is not a cam defect but either user error during cam install or head assembly.

 

[90 Talon AWD]

Yea.. i had this problem but it is not hitting the cam caps yet, but it is awful close.

 

[bling5tatus]

Yeah, you are wrong. Mines a 98, I have a cam sensor where the 1gs do. And yes, it is impossible to get them wrong. They are in order, that's about all you can mess up. They can't be put on upside down. There is different lips on each side. Ones about 1/4 inch bigger, it wouldn't line the holes up.

Well I stand corrected. I always like to leave things open ended so that if I am wrong nobody can call me an idiot for it. I know I'm wrong sometimes.

 

[jrohner]

Are you sure there is actually a problem with the cams? The lobes on my BC272's are off to the one side a little too.

 

[talonalex92]

Well. I didn't have the head apart, caps torqued in sequence to 16 ft lbs. Om @ SBR does want them back. So im assuming its a cam problem. And I know the caps are order/spot/head specific. They are in the right spot. Also, bling sorry if I came off to shoot you down, I wasn't trying to. Im just bummed to the max.

 

[bling5tatus]

No big deal man... I'd be bummed too... it really sounded like the cam caps were out of order or something. Hope you get it resolved.

 

[talonalex92]

Timing side of Exh cam.
<a href="http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/?action=view&current=IMG00149.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/IMG00149.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Trans side of exh cam.
<a href="http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/?action=view&current=IMG00150.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/IMG00150.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Timing side of intake.
<a href="http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/?action=view&current=IMG00151.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/IMG00151.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Trans side of intake. (Bad photo skills)
This is the one that was grinding my cap.
<a href="http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/?action=view&current=IMG00152.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/IMG00152.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Caps. Ground one on bottom.
<a href="http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/?action=view&current=IMG00153.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/IMG00153.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Journals.
<a href="http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/?action=view&current=IMG00154.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/IMG00154.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/?action=view&current=IMG00155.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/IMG00155.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Note the shine. If I had a better camera, the circular grinds would be visible. No good.
<a href="http://s278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/?action=view&current=IMG00156.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk113/alexodell/IMG00156.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Wisemen, where are you?

Im hoping since I didn't loose any oil pressure, I can put a new head/cams in and go. Thoughts?

 

[nuclearr]

I can not tell buy those pics is it grinding on the bevel?

 

[lccynmbr13]

FYI when you take pictures that close set your camera to the MACRO mode. It's the little button that looks like a flower from super mario brothers. You'll get a much clearer picture for us to look at.

 

[talonalex92]

Hehe, fckn cell phone picchas. Alex doesn't own a camera. Sidekick for the win!

Im wondering, if someone else will take a picture of their valvetrain if you are using bc272s. And a pic of the clearance between the number 4 cylinders lobe to cap clearance on the intake side.

 

[booostedGSX]

If I can get a few minutes today, I'll try to pull off my valvecover and snap a few pics of what my valvetrain looks like with the BC272s.

 

[talonalex92]

Well, got in contact with BC. Im sending my entire head to them in Cali. I pulled it off last night, everything looks good. Pistons are clean, the cylinders still have a great hone in them. Im wondering if the previous owner got into that. I bought the car with 115k, and it was all stock. Ill keep all updated as I hear from Dustin @ BC.

 

[talonalex92]

Shipped out head yesterday after some adress issues that SBR was quick to help with. Im still wondering if anyone else has some goofy clearances between the lobes and caps. Ill update further upon hearing from Dustin @ BC...

 

[talonalex92]

Well. Dustin said that the cams were bad. My head needs line bored and cleaned. Im kinda upset I didnt get it replaced by them, but he said he was going to take care of somethings for my trouble, like new springs/retainers and some other goodies he didnt mention. Now I have a car that needs back together, a head that needs worked and god knows what else. Lame.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Well. Dustin said that the cams were bad. My head needs line bored and cleaned. Im kinda upset I didnt get it replaced by them, but he said he was going to take care of somethings for my trouble, like new springs/retainers and some other goodies he didnt mention. Now I have a car that needs back together, a head that needs worked and god knows what else. Lame.

Well look at the good side, you got free springs and retainers. I would be extremely happy if i got some free spring/retainers, i wouldnt mind at all if the cams did that my head, to me its a simple job.

 

[Bohrn]

change your oil and filter. And before you drain it, maybe wash down the oil return holes with new oil.

Make sure the turbo oil lines are clean too. maybe flush out the turbo center section thru the oil feed line, and spin the turbo by hand while you flush it out.

 

[talonalex92]

Thanks for the ideas guys. Id like as many as you have. I've never been in the situation before so I don't know. I know I need to flush it. I want to flush the turbo, I want to flush the block. I think ill just take compressed air and blow out the oil passages. Anything else I should take care of while its all apart?

 

[talonalex92]

And yes, the R&R is a simple job. The machine work probably isn't. I can't find anywhere to do it.

 

[cbr600teardrop]

i just bought a set a bc 272s is there a way to check them to see if there bad before i install them with like a micrometer or caliper ?