I have recently been thinking about stopping my 2.3L stroker build and selling my 2.0L block and stroker pistons and buying a 4g64 block and some wisecos for it and go that route. I've read a few threads and visited a site talking about using the 1g head with a 2g or 3g 4g64 block.
7 bolt setup...
I have an Eagle 100mm crank, Eagle H-Beams, 1G SBR Stage 6 head, 1G custom SMIM, 1G tubular exhaust manifold that I can use on a 4g64 block and will be buying pistons soon if I go with this idea.
I'm not exactly sure how to go about using the 1G head on the 4g64 block, I'm not sure about how to get the turbo setup on the 4g64 block, I'm not sure how to just migrate over to the 4g64 and it has me a little curious if its even worth it.
Anyone with links or documents, or can help me with a listing of everything I need to do to get started with swapping out the blocks, chime in.
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Head, turbo, etc, bolts right on. You will have to get a 4G64 timing belt and may want to get some 4G64 cam gears but everything else goes right in. I have a 4G64 in my AWD.
i looked into it because I had the 4g64 in my spyder. I swapped to a 4g63 but I know that the 2g and 1g head bolt up to the block with alittle modding. You can try this page for getting that to work out... http://4g64.150m.com/turbo.html . You would have to obviously build the block up because it would only handle 10psi or so without doing so but if you did end up doing this you'd have a nice torque machine.
P.S I have a 4g64 engine still for sale if you were looking for one
i was seriously looking into that build but realized that all the 4g64's i found the front engine mount was in a dirrerent position,so i still cant see how i would make it work.
I see the 95-97 4g64 blocks are interchangeable with the 4g63... What about the 98-00 blocks?
Will a 98-00 4g64 crank fit in a 95-97 4g64 block?
I saw that I need to fill/plug 5 holes on the 4g64 deck, used for oil return from the SOHC head, not used for the DOHC head... After that is done will my 1G DOHC head bolt right down onto the 2G(a) 4g64 block?
I saw Raycer97 did the hybrid setup on his car but he's been inactive for so long I dunno how to contact him... Anyone else please chime in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjgrizz73
P.S I have a 4g64 engine still for sale if you were looking for one
I have found a few short blocks and bare blocks for between $50 and $150
Yes the crank from a 98-00 will fit. The difference is in the blocks, I cant remember when they started using main girdles and also anything after 97 used split thrust washers instead of the main thrust bearing. Make sure you double check you main and rod clearances because the they are not all the same from crank to crank.
Core/freeze plugs will work to block off those passages. If you are unsure just bolt the head down to the block and you will see the passages that will need to be blocked off.
Okay, I wasn't thinking about the different blocks having the Girdle or not. Would a 4g63 Girdle fit a 4g64?
I do think I'm going to go with a 95-97 block if possible unless someone can show me that a 98-00 block will fit and work the same without any real large mods.
I'm not exactly sure how to go about using the 1G head on the 4g64 block, I'm not sure about how to get the turbo setup on the 4g64 block, I'm not sure how to just migrate over to the 4g64 and it has me a little curious if its even worth it.
The blocks both come from the same base casting. There are a few differences once the engine is finished, but basically everything except the deck height, mains girdle and the absence of piston oil squirters is the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by interex
Will a 98-00 4g64 crank fit in a 95-97 4g64 block?
It should, all 7 bolt cranks are supposedly interchangeable. Even the Evo's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by interex
I saw that I need to fill/plug 5 holes on the 4g64 deck, used for oil return from the SOHC head, not used for the DOHC head... After that is done will my 1G DOHC head bolt right down onto the 2G(a) 4g64 block?
The best way to plug those drain holes is for a machinist to drill them slightly oversize and tap at a depth where a threaded plug will sit slightly below the deck surface. Most people don't tap them however and just drill to a depth and diameter for a freeze plug.
There are two head locating dowels on opposite corners of the deck, these will place the cylinder head correctly no matter which head you use, the only minor issue is whether you're using a 6 bolt head or a 7 bolt head. The 6 bolt heads used a 12mm bolt, 7's use 11mm. You could just install the 11mm, however this will put slightly more strain on the 12 point nut used top side on the new studs you'll be using. Maybe overkill, but drilling and tapping the block to accept the 12mm studs would be more ideal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by interex
Okay, I wasn't thinking about the different blocks having the Girdle or not. Would a 4g63 Girdle fit a 4g64?
I do think I'm going to go with a 95-97 block if possible unless someone can show me that a 98-00 block will fit and work the same without any real large mods.
Only use the girdle that was originally paired with the block unless you plan on a mains align honing while at the machine shop. Frankly I think this would be a big mistake. The 4G64 girdle is VERY stout and already has the proper clearance for the 100mm crankshaft. No additional grinding and clearancing which weakens the mains is required.
I'd also like to point out the already mentioned split thrust bearing design which will not be found on the 95-97 blocks you're referring to. This design is used in the Evo VIII, IX, and in all 4G63's and 4G64's built after 1998. It has been referred to as being Mitsubishi's solution to the crankwalk issue of the 95 up to 97-98 blocks. Whatever the issue was, the changes seem to have worked because crankwalk is almost completely unheard-of in 99+ blocks.
Below is a picture of the girdle from my 2003 Galant 4G64, and a pic of the dowel pins which locate the head.
They may have very subtle differences, but all 7-bolt 4G64s will be able to make use of your Eagle crank. The split-thrust bearing is used in every 4G63 and 4G64 from 99 on, even up to today.
Update: My block is on its way.... for $175 delivered. I got a block from a 2000 Galant which I was able to convince the salvage yard to strip down and sell me just the block. I told the woman I didn't need the crank but if they wanted to send it too that would be nice and she told me "we'll see" :P
Now to look at pistons... I don't see a whole lot for the 4g64 but I'm going to guess that the Wiseco pistons will be what I buy. I was looking at Manley Pistons but not sure how they would hold up compared to Wiseco.
Whoever you decide to get the pistons and rods from, you should call them both up and see how much more it'd be for you to use the 2.3 stroker piston in a 4g64 bore size and get a 156mm rod length. The extra deck height allowing room for longer rods is the whole point of using a 64 block over a 63 block.
I called SBR and I would need .060" over (86.5mm) 4g63 stroker pistons for the 4g64 (std bore) block. I can't seem to find any stroker pistons that are for 86.5mm for a 4g63, and I can't seem to find aftermarket rods that are 156mm. I think I'm looking in the wrong way. I also can't find a DOHC 4g64 cometic MLS head gasket. I see the stock one at Mitsu (MD189436) though.
The pistons will be a custom order. Just ask that they use the stroker piston's pin location with whatever the finished bore size will be in your block. There are a couple manufacturers making 156mm rods, but you should be able to track down someone who can come up with exactly what you want without too much difficulty. However, you won't be just visiting a website and clicking your way to your engine parts with this setup. Pauter makes some of the best rods available and actually encourages custom orders:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauter.com
Our usual policy as to in-stock and custom built rods is a bit different from other manufacturers. We gear our production towards the custom, made-to-order end of the spectrum, stocking only a few "popular" sizes.
SBR Stocks 86mm Bore 4G63 Cometic HP's which is good for up to a .040 over bore. If you need a bigger model or your building a 4G64 block let us know and it's only a special order away!
Is that girdle the same style girgle that kwigley or whatever the company name is sells to help with bearing failuer? If so that would make those blocks a lot more desirable
The one of delta448's looks like the stock one, the one Kiggly has looks to be lower/flatter... Might just be the angle of the picture.
Edit: I called JNZ and ExtremePSI and neither one of them know anything more about what gasket to use for my hybrid build. The guy I talked to at JNZ told me to just use the OEM DOHC Galant one but a few threads I've found say they are using a Cometic one... No clue what to do about the head gasket just yet.
I posted a couple links to suitable headgaskets in my last post.
The main girdle I posted a pic of is indeed the stock 7-bolt 4g64 girdle.
lol omg... I totally did not see those links you posted till you just said so, but I had read on SBR about their "special order" gasket for the 4g64... but anyway I already knew about that Cometic gasket for the 4g64 SOHC... My problem was making sure it works for my 1G 4g63 DOHC head. The guy at ExtremePSI did not know so I figured it hadn't really been discussed much before.
I'm gonna go take a nap... I've not had any sleep since I got off work 5 hours ago lol. (thanks for the help again)
The one of delta448's looks like the stock one, the one Kiggly has looks to be lower/flatter... Might just be the angle of the picture.
Edit: I called JNZ and ExtremePSI and neither one of them know anything more about what gasket to use for my hybrid build. The guy I talked to at JNZ told me to just use the OEM DOHC Galant one but a few threads I've found say they are using a Cometic one... No clue what to do about the head gasket just yet.
It doesn't matter really as much how it looks it's the function of it that really matters. As long as you use the stock pan it should fit just like OE. The main function is to tie all the caps together.
I think I might have a problem. The engine I ordered is a 99 Galant 4g64. (Not arrived yet) From reading some threads on MachV and DSMTalk I'm seeing that all (8g) 99-2003 Galant 2.4L (4g64) engines are NOT the same as previous 4g64 engines such as in the (7g) DSM Spyder Eclipse. These threads are saying the 99-03 4g64 blocks are turned 180 degrees and are not common in any way with the older 4g64 other than that they share the name. ?
Look at the difference between a 7g Galant, and 8g Galant you can see that the 7g engine is on the drivers side, and the 8g engine is on the passenger side. Does this mean the block is different, or will the block work by just turning it around 180 degrees?
First Image: 1999-2003 Galant 4g64
Second Image: 1997 Galant 4g64
You will need a 94-98 block I would look specificaly fora 94 galant gs block but any 94-98 will work. The 4g64 you have is compatiable with the evo 8 motors
As far as I know, the only differences between the generations has been the bellhousing width, motor mounts and the head orientation. I may be mistaken but I distinctly remember discussing this issue in depth (the viability of using the newer blocks), via PM, with another member doing this swap. We both came to the conclusion that as long as you have a block with the 12.5 inch bellhousing bolt pattern you are okay. The larger "wideblock" 13.25 inch bellhousing width seems to have only ever been used in RWD applications, such as the Mighty Max pickup, so as long as you pull the engine from a FWD application you should be fine.
You'll notice in this picture of the reverse-oriented 4g64 in question that the starter (circled in blue) is on the "front" of this block, but resides on the rear of the other. As well as the same motor mount being used on the opposite side of the engine bay (red). You may also notice the absence of the dipstick in this picture, because it is located on the "rear" of this block. And finally, note the location of the AC compressor bracket (yellow) which also mounts identically to the "front" here and rear on the other. There is no reason to believe this block is a new casting when it has the exact same geometrically located features, and the crank spins the same way with respect to the timing belt side.
The reversed block in question is exactly the same, just flipped 180 degrees. The head design used has been the only major difference, and since you won't be using the SOHC, there is no issue.
____________________________
Zack H.
R.I.P. '97 TSi AWD
Last edited by delta448; 11-01-2008 at 05:27 PM.
Reason: grammar
Okay well my block will be here either Monday or Tuesday and I can check it then. I won't be doing too much within the next week, Today I pulled the tranny from my TSI AWD and after loading it up to get ready for delivery tomorrow I stepped on a 2x4 beside the garage that had a nail in it and it punctured through my shoe and into my foot. I can say that it is very painful having a nail go 1/2" into the muscle.
I also talked to a guy at Jacks Transmissions about what transmission build would be good for my 2.4L looking at around 600+ hp and was not exactly happy with their price compared to what Shep quoted me. I do know the difference between the two shops and I've read hundreds of comments between people about the differences in the builds. Jacks doesn't offer as much of a core buy back like Shep does, and their price is a little higher on the builds. I'm waiting to hear back from TRE and see what they might be able to do for me.
I'd really like to do the best deal all around for my build, both price and quality. I have access to a few transmissions I can sell to either place for credit towards a build to help cut down on the cost of the transmission but we'll get there when the time comes to getting a tranny.
My block arrived today. I was expecting just a bare stripped down block... when the freight guy pulled up in his semi and I go out there, not only is it a block, it's a short block complete minus the head.
So I'm looking this block over and the front side of the block looks like it was on fire but the wiring that was clipped to the block wasn't burnt so I determined the front of the block is peeling apart. It's rust! I am now quite upset after spending this money on a block I was told was in good condition and still in the car for that matter. I call the place I ordered the block from and the guy told me "thats how blocks are in ohio".
I guess I'll just use my wire brushes and clean it up and hot tank it and see how it turns out after that is done. The internals look great, even the pistons/walls looked good. Engine was still full of oil during shipping.
I decided what the hell and started to strip the block down and now have it sitting there with one slight issue... I can't get the balance shaft sprocket off the crank.
Well, none the less I probably didn't get hurt for $175 with the 100mm crank included.
Well, The engine is going into the hot tank tomorrow.
I'm unsure how to remove the bearings inside the block where the two shafts go beside the cylinder walls.
The tear down went well, the internals are in great condition and none of the bearings looked to be bad. I used my wire brush on the block to clean it up some and it cleaned up fairly well, hope the bath will help it more.
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