A/F controller VS. Data Logger

[mustg5]

what is the difference between a A/F controller and a Data Logger?? Do i need a data logger if i have a A/F controller?? Thanks

 

[Bohrn]

anyone who is going to modify thier car more than by just putting in a boost guage and a cat back NEEDS a good datalogger.

There is no substitute.

An safc or similar is how you change your air/fuel ratio, but your logger is where you see the results in knock counts, O2 volts, timing etc etc etc.

Your computer would work fine without a monitor but you would not know at all what you were doing. Same thing.

 

[steve]

What he said.

A datalogger is a must if you get some sort of fuel computer, so start out with one and get some baseline knowledge before trying to tune. Or get a dsmlink and get datalogging as part of the package.

Steve

 

[mustg5]

what u think of the data logger made by pocket logger for my talon??

 

[Bohrn]

While I don't have a 2g, I believe that the products made by Pocketlogger are top knotch.

Hopefully a 2g person will respond tho. I have heard that the 2g logger is a bit slower and cannot have as many items running at once,but like I said, I don't have a 2g.

I have seen DSMLink tho and it is very nice. Costs a bit more, but you can do TONS of things with it. Very nice.

 

[1fast97gsx]

yea that's what I use ... thats exactly what you need .. badass program and for $175 ... well worth it

 

[mustg5]

where did u get it do 175?

 

[DSMJim]

I have a datalogger for 2G and can run 10-12 items at once with 18-19 samples per second with no problem. I find it to be quite fast so it should be ok that way for you.

Really I would stil recommend a wide band O2 setup with a pocket logger if you have the money. Check out http://www.WBO2.com their complete setup with LSU (Bosch) sensor is a good buy.

 

[mustg5]

why do u suggest that?

 

[DSMJim]

Because looking at voltage on your pocket logger is not very accurate, and even though on a 1G your not getting knock you can find out that your voltage looks good but your AFR is still really out of wack and you can clean it up with no ill effects on timing.

When I tune my car I use my wideband and timing only. I can directly affect my timing with the air fuel ratio and your EGT is directly related to timing. So with those two two items in line everything else falls in place.

 

[BUCK]

To best use an old Palm III XE - which of our vendors could I utilize?

 

[mustg5]

but if i have an air fuel conrtoller, do u think i still need the wideband, but otherwise wounds like a good idea.

 

[Omega]

If you have an air/fuel controller you certainly need tuning devices. How do you expect to make changes if you don't know where and what changes to make?

Here is the deal. 2G loggers are not able to read the knock sensor signal like the 1G's can This is a problem. It is very easy to tune based off of timing, RPM and knock. Since we can't do that we really need a WB02 setup.

I have one from http://www.innovatemotorsports.com It is a VERY good unit and is only $350! They have just realeased a harness to input RPM to the unit. I think you can add timing to it as well, pretty much eliminating the data logger all together.


I should mention that the O2 voltage readings from the ECU are pretty much useless. Yes it is nice to see if you are in the ball park, but in the world of accurate tuning it is pointless.

 

[Enigma_Man]

You're talking about two different sorts of things

Wideband O2 sensors, and Dataloggers are Data Recording and Measuring Devices, like an electronic ruler. You use them to measure and see what your car is doing. You need to use a datalogger if you want to make power without (more) risk of breaking your engine due to knock or overheating.

An Air/Fuel controller is a tuning device, like an electronic screwdriver. You can't measure anything with it (the AFC can measure a few things, like RPM, but that's not its main function), but you can change things. If you are going to be tuning/changing things, you certainly need to be able to measure the changes.

You wouldn't build a house with just a screwdriver and no ruler, and certainly, it's no fun to just measure your house, and not improve/upgrade it Get the Datalogger first, then the AF Controller, use them together to make power.

-Jesse

 

[GTM]

Hi all:

I need some basic help with a data logger. I would like to know if the software is compatable between the different loggers? And/or if the retrieved data uses a common data format which can be imported into Excel spreadsheets or Graph makers?

No this is not a joke and it's not a pocket, it's a Fluke labrotory / industrial unit 2280B that the factory probably used when they built the cars. It won't arrive until the middle of next week so don't know what to expect. It has a built in floppy disk plus provisions to attach an optional Sun mainframe when it's logging all 1500 chanels. Oh yes, no test leads so I'll have to wire something up.

This can get moved to a new thread, PM or email.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by GTM
Hi all:

Front panel / keypad / printer etc.

This can get moved to a new thread, PM or email.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[steve]

Originally posted by GTM
Hi all:

I need some basic help with a data logger. I would like to know if the software is compatable between the different loggers? And/or if the retrieved data uses a common data format which can be imported into Excel spreadsheets or Graph makers?

Cheers,
GTM

When we speak of dataloggers we are talking about specific software running on some computer platform, usually a PC or a Palm PDA. The datalogging software supports either OBD 1 or OBD 2 communications protocols to talk to the ECU depending on which year cars.
The log file formats tend to be specific to the datalogger software but many can export csv datafiles so you can use excel or other programs to play with the data.

If you have questions email me.

Steve

PS I want to see you mount that Fluke in your dash.

 

[Race94]

Do i need a data logger if my car will be tuned by a mechanic on a dyno?

 

[steve]

Depends on what's your mechanic is going to tune with and if you want to keep track of things afterward.

Steve

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by steve

...

or a Palm PDA. The datalogging software supports either OBD 1 or OBD 2 communications protocols to talk to the ECU depending on which year cars.
The log file formats tend to be specific to the datalogger software but many can export csv datafiles so you can use excel or other programs to play with the data.

PS I want to see you mount that Fluke in your dash.

Are the PDAs not running some sort of modified Windows format?

How long has OBD 1&2 been around? I'll research this on the Internet. Fluke has only told me they no longer have the manual but haven't responded to software for automotive applications. I've seen equipment that had floppy drive support but don't tell you it's also has SCSI or IDE drive ports. It's got DB9, DB25 and printer ports plus a couple of unknown extras and 10baseT. for ethernet.

Did get a couple of PDF files from their site which may tell me what the software needs are but not for this model.

Dash mounting is accomplished with a Mac truck and a cig plug, .3 amps @12v.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[steve]

I'm not aware of any datalogger software for WinCE, thats what non-PalmOS PDA tend to run. TMO is the only Windows software.
OBD 1 is found on 1G DSM's and most 2G's run OBD 2 in their ECU's.

The cheapest OBD 1 solution is a PalmOS device with MMCd software and a homemade cable to convert the +12v ECU signalling to RS232. I have schematics if you need them.

Steve

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by steve

...
OBD 1 is found on 1G DSM's and most 2G's run OBD 2 in their ECU's.

The cheapest OBD 1 solution is a PalmOS device with MMCd software and a homemade cable to convert the +12v ECU signalling to RS232. I have schematics if you need them.
Steve

Any idea when OBD 1 was adopted as a standard? Is OBD 2 backwards compatable?

Sure, schematics to RS232 and if IEEE-488 would be useful. Can you use my email rather than PM?

I am finding OBD 1&2 software being offered which can download satalite data into a base and then retransmit to car via wireless. Yegads a bit more than I need at the moment... hehehe

Cheers,
GTM

 

[steve]

Originally posted by GTM
Any idea when OBD 1 was adopted as a standard? Is OBD 2 backwards compatable?

Not sure and not sure how standard the spec really is. OBD1 seems to require more car specific details in the software than OBD 2 which started showing up around '95. The '94 and earlier DSM's used OBD 1, so at least '89 for it.

Steve

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by steve
Not sure and not sure how standard the spec really is. OBD1 seems to require more car specific details in the software than OBD 2 which started showing up around '95. The '94 and earlier DSM's used OBD 1, so at least '89 for it.

Quick search of the Internet found this which is about the time frame of my 2-3 years with VW:

http://www.obdscantools.com/OBD-Software.htm

"
OBD - what is OBD? In the early seventies, the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) introduced a new policy that mandated the use of on board diagnostics (OBD) for vehicles driven in the USA. Similar requirements were also introduced by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). This led to the development of new technologies that allowed mechanics and service technicians to monitor almost all aspects of vehicle performance on instruments hooked up to data ports on cars. OBD II replaced OBD I in the mid-nineties with more sophisticated monitoring systems and OBD III is on the horizon."
................

With that in mind I feel fairly confident the Fluke will be either I or II but for certain it should work IF I can find the software that will fit on a floppy disk... 1.2-1.44. This may not be nearly as bad as I envisioned, have to do a check of eBay. More than likely it's going to be DOS but who's...

Cheers,
GTM