weight reduction: cutting the door braces out

[gritsak]

i cant find any info but there is side impact braces inside the doors that you can cut out to save some weight i do believe...at the shootout this past weekend i saw curt browns car with them cut out and it inspired me to do the same.

my car is already fully gutted so anyone with a stupid comment please go elsewhere..this is a full "race" car and i want to shave all the weight i can from it.

so with that said, does anyone have any pics of the beams/braces cut out? and also, any idea how much weight will actually be saved.

its a 92 awd laser if that makes any difference. thanx

 

[igs]

Just replace the door with a carbon fiber or fiberglass one. And use fixed lexan windows.

 

[workin_on_it]

or if its just a race car you could weld the doors shut and take out as muchg as you wish....but remember that it is a unibody car and pretty much any metal you remove will be reducing the structural strength....do you have a roll cage? if so the you could remove alot more without your car being all floppy......

 

[gritsak]

Originally posted by workin_on_it
or if its just a race car you could weld the doors shut and take out as muchg as you wish....but remember that it is a unibody car and pretty much any metal you remove will be reducing the structural strength....do you have a roll cage? if so the you could remove alot more without your car being all floppy......

welding the doors shut is a little to far for me..i still will drive it on the street for an occasional race and to tune it...

no cage right now but its on the list for soon.

i dont really know if the 8lbs saved is gonna be worth it for me right now..maybe once i get a cage in it i will cut them out

 

[gritsak]

Originally posted by igs
Just replace the door with a carbon fiber or fiberglass one. And use fixed lexan windows.

yeah hold up let me get my wallet out for some CF doors...i know no one makes them and i dont want fiberglass..still want to drive the car on the streets occasionally

 

[igs]

Originally posted by gritsak

i dont really know if the 8lbs saved is gonna be worth it for me right now..maybe once i get a cage in it i will cut them out

Change the doors, it will save at least 100 lbs.

 

[igs]

Originally posted by gritsak

yeah hold up let me get my wallet out for some CF doors...i know no one makes them and i dont want fiberglass..still want to drive the car on the streets occasionally

What's wrong with fiberglass? I was thinking of getting fiberglass.

 

[gritsak]

Originally posted by igs


What's wrong with fiberglass? I was thinking of getting fiberglass.

you get hit in the side with fiberglass doors and they will just shatter and you will definitely be fu(ked....at least with metal it will provide *some* support...even a thin metal door with no braces would hold up better then fiberglass

 

[seeker]

Hey, I have the same question. On my 93 talon It is also fully gutted and Strip/occasional street only, cage on the way etc. If anyone has done this and has any helpful info, please post it. I am interested in finding fiberglass doors for a 1G as well, but I havn't seen them anywhere. Who makes them? And how much?

Thanks.

 

[TwoLiterV8Eater]

Not to start instigating anything, but you REALLY need to choose which direction you are going with your car. You started your post saying it was a "Full race" car and that you want to lose as much weight as possible, a la Curt Brown. That is fine, "Full Race" cars should have as little as neccesary on them to get them down the track. Removing your alternator would save probably as much wieght as removing your door braces. You should check into doing that also.

Your second post says that you plan on driving on the street occasionally to tune your car and to possibly RACE it. Now this I have a problem with. What you do with your time doesn't really concern me, but hacking out all the safety features of your car because it is a race car, and then driving on the street in that condition seems a bit out of place. Think about it for a minute. A small accident that you would normally walk away from, now will kill you instantly, or worse, paralyze you for life. Is that REALLY worth saving 8 lbs? Just looking out for a fellow DSMer.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

he is somewhat right, i mean i know plenty of people who keep tags on nasty fast track cars to drive them to and from the track, and to bring them out on the street for a race of anyone actually has the money to back up their mouth, nothing wrong with that
but if ur going to go as far as to cut all the supports out of ur doors u need a full roll cage not only for the structural support that ur going to lose by removing the supports but to protect urself, and not a 4 point cage, u need rear supports and door bars, something like 9 points, with a cage bar going diagionaly from the middle of the "B" pillar cage bar to the bottom of the "A" piller cage bar it will be safe enough to drive around, there would be a cage bar next to u when ur sitting tha u have to step over to get into the car, and then u could take almost everything out of ur doors, u wouldnt need any supports in it at all, just the door skin and enough metal to support the window
but without the full roll cage dont take the supports out of ur doors and drive the car on the street, u never know when some drunk idiot is going to run a red light and smash into ur drivers side door, or when the car ur racing is going to lose control and hit u, u need a a bar protecing the side of the car or either of these things would easily kill u

 

[seeker]

What about cars that have plastic and fiberglass or aluminum doors from the factory? There are a few. I have a cage going in with side bars and yes I will drive it on the street on the weekends. There is always risk with going fast, modded or not. I appreciate your concern, but seriously, the question that was asked was about where to locate fiberglass doors or what methods have been used to take the door beams out. It isn't necessary to explain that the safety of the car will be compromised in any way. That is completely obvious. For those who didn't realize the car will have less impact resistance from the side by removing the door beams, it will. Now that it has been completely addressed, anyone feel like answering the question?

 

[TwoLiterV8Eater]

Originally posted by seeker
What about cars that have plastic and fiberglass or aluminum doors from the factory? There are a few.

Those cars have metal safety braces inside them. Just like every other car on the road, except the cars owned by people not smart enough to leave them in there.

 

[NDgsx]

Those SOBs weigh a bit over 30lbs combined, it's a considerable weight savings when you're going for that last little bit.

It's spot welded at the ends and you need to drill those out and it is also glued to the door skin, a long razor will take care of that.

The door will still weigh a ton without that piece. Without the impact beam the stock door isn't going to do anything at all in terms of safety in a crash, might as well just get a glass door. Buschur or Magnus might have them.

 

[seeker]

Originally posted by TwoLiterV8Eater


Those cars have metal safety braces inside them. Just like every other car on the road, except the cars owned by people not smart enough to leave them in there.

If the side beams in the roll cage aren't enough, the door supports won't have made a difference either. Nuff said.

Thanks Nick for the info, I will have to email Marco and see if he carries the doors, I didn't think anyone had them. If I can't find them in glass, your info on pulling the beams will be very helpful.

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

cage with side bars will be fine, like defiant said a dizen posts ago, a few pounds with an air chisel, maybe a razor of any of that glue is still on ur door skin, lexan windows would save u more weight then anything though

as for fiberglass doors, i would think u would have to have them custom made, someone might have a mold for them already though, thats the most expensive part

u could probally just custom fab a aluminum frame for ur door skin and put in lexan windows for cheaper then fiberglass doors though unless someone has a mold for them, i doubt fiberglass doors would support a glass window or any type of interior panles or buttons anyway

 

[seeker]

I contacted a guy that is somehow working with squidskins.com who may be able to hook me up with the doors. He emailed once to make sure I had a cage etc, (of course) but I am expecting to hear from him soon on price/availability of the doors soon. I have speedglass ordered for the front windshield and I will be getting the hatch glass and all the sideglass over the winter. Thanks for the info on the door beams, if for some reason the glass doors don't workout, I will still be going that route and possibly doing something with the inner structure as you suggested with the aluminum.

 

[igs]

Originally posted by seeker
What about cars that have plastic and fiberglass or aluminum doors from the factory? There are a few.

Not to mention cars like the McLaren F1 and Saleen S7. Besides, no bar will save you from a car going 40 mph, which is still pretty slow.

 

[DashLaflash]

Ok first off I know this thread is from 2003 so get all of the "holy dead thread batmans" out of your system. Would it be possible to replace the door braces with a piece of chromoly tubing? I'm not sure how much weight savings it would be but it might be something to consider for a street car without a cage. Trees are very immovable objects, and Dodge Ram pick up trucks are very large. I was also wondering if you could glue a piece of chromoly tubing into a carbon fiber door with the glue used for bonding quarter panels to a car. I'm not sure if this would add any strength or if the doors will still just shatter because of the fiberglass.

 

[99gst_racer]

Ok first off I know this thread is from 2003 so get all of the "holy dead thread batmans" out of your system. Would it be possible to replace the door braces with a piece of chromoly tubing? I'm not sure how much weight savings it would be but it might be something to consider for a street car without a cage. Trees are very immovable objects, and Dodge Ram pick up trucks are very large. I was also wondering if you could glue a piece of chromoly tubing into a carbon fiber door with the glue used for bonding quarter panels to a car. I'm not sure if this would add any strength or if the doors will still just shatter because of the fiberglass.

Holy dead thread, batman!


On a CF door, definitely not. Chromoly won't help you upon impact if it's only glued in place. In fact, I'd bet it would be worse, because you'd have a solid chance of being impaled by it when it's knocked out of place.

For OE steel doors, you could replace the beam with a chromoly bar. But it would be quite a bit of work for only minimal weight savings. Doable, but far from practical.

Personally, I wouldn't even mess with the factory door crash beams unless my car had a cage. With a non-caged car, I'd leave the beams alone and try to pull weight out elsewhere.

 

[DashLaflash]

Holy dead thread, batman!


On a CF door, definitely not. Chromoly won't help you upon impact if it's only glued in place. In fact, I'd bet it would be worse, because you'd have a solid chance of being impaled by it when it's knocked out of place.

For OE steel doors, you could replace the beam with a chromoly bar. But it would be quite a bit of work for only minimal weight savings. Doable, but far from practical.

Personally, I wouldn't even mess with the factory door crash beams unless my car had a cage. With a non-caged car, I'd leave the beams alone and try to pull weight out elsewhere.

Wow you just had to do it . Everyone gets so worked up about reviving old threads.

I was under the impression that carbon fiber doors or gutting the factory doors yielded a pretty substantial weight savings. When people gut the factory doors all they do is remove the crash bar and some excess sheet metal. This is what made me think it was the crash beams that make our doors so heavy. It would be nice if we could get an actual weight on the crash beams, especially since you have access to chromoly tubing Paul. Oh well guess its not worth my time even though I have plenty of it over the summer .

And I wasn't talking about using super glue on the carbon fiber doors. I'm talking about the bonding material they use for putting quarter panels onto cars. I don't think it would come unglued in a crash. I would be more concerned with the fiberglass its attached to breaking apart on impact making the support brace a deadly object.

 

[LiquidX]

The glue still wouldn't make the pipes a piece of the door for structural support. If anything, you would want them molded into the door panel internally.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

I would consider welding load spreading pieces onto the ends of the chromoly bars to keep the ends of the beam from coming dislodged. Like this:

(====]
I would think that would be better than nothing, if properly bonded to the inside of a CF door.

Maybe saftey cables holding it to the hinges and the latch.