Exhaust Valves to consider

[MNGSX]

A NA guy was looking at sodium filled valves.

Probably big time overkill for a NA car.

I think they are definately worth some serious consideration for high HP turbo cars.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66459

The STI and EVO both have sodium filled exhaust valves. Its been around for decades. Mostly going in high end stuff like turbo cars and vette engines. I know it's got me thinking of what I might do when I swap this head to the other block, I think they are worth a look.

 

[pneumo]

Does anyone offer sodium filled valves for DSM's? I think it would be a nice upgrade.

 

[Tallen]

NASA even did a few tests on this concept.
Yea it is a good idea.

 

[MNGSX]

They were going in engines in the 50's. Yep mechanical FI and sodium filled valves.

I measured a scrap oe exh valve I had here.

It is indeed 30.5mm (head) x 6.6 (stem) x 109.7 (length)

so if you look at the catalog here

http://www.ganioglu.com/supar/sodyum/sodium_filled.htm

Part #53050

specs are

30.5x6.6x109.7

There is one source for your valves.

It gives you about 100 degrees more protection from burning them.

 

[MNGSX]

Another thing to look at is intake valves.

Just hollow stem. Alot less weight and heat retention. Sodium is'nt needed here with intake air always rolling across them but the STI and many enginse (LS series GM) put in hollow stem intakes valves and sodium exhaust valves.

 

[Defiant]

Do DSMs have any valve issues? I've not heard of any, other than that thing of having the pistons amongst them when the timing belt goes.

Figure what, $75 each for sodium-filled valves?

 

[MNGSX]

Weight... Hollow stem is an issue with upgraded cams. Like why titanium retainers exist.

Exhaust valve burning can easily happen with too lean a mixture like on any engine. Exhaust valve wear and valve guide wear is somewhat accelerated on DSM's but not anymore than most engines which get modified the same degree. More power creates more heat. Which is why you need things like bigger radiators.

A mild setup doesn't need them. On engine that will see high boost and needs new valves already the hollow stem/sodium (int/exh) is smart money when you are doing a head. You are less likely to burn a valve, valve guide tolerances are tighter, and the valve/seat grind will last longer since it will expand less with lower heat. I would'nt do it without new bronze guides with the valve mfgs recomended clearance for the valve stem (tighter). You will also see alot less getting by the exhaust valve stem. All the engines currently using them do so for a reason. It was just too expensive for a production TEL but fit with the EVO's market price and other cars like the STI and vette. We all know that many DSMers engines have more money in them than the factory puts into EVO motors. So if you have $600 rods why not beef up the valves?

 

[MNGSX]

GM sells a new head with 8 of them for $712


12464298
Cylinder Head "Aluminum Fast Burn"
$712

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/gmsbheads2.html

Satanbishisi parts department probably wants alot for EVO valves but the same valves are likely available cheaper elswhere just like those revised lifters.

For a 1997=98 porsche 928 they run $31 US each.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/928M/POR_928M_cylhds_pg1.htm

I bet 4g63 valve fitments could be found in that ball park if you dig long enough.

 

[MNGSX]

Maybe even cheaper.

Generic factory exh valves run about $8-$9.

So valves which dont carry the prestiegous porsche fitment with sodium are likely in the $20-$30 range.

 

[MNGSX]

If anyone does it be shure to go by EVO service manual specs for exhaust valve seat width. Either that a shop that has delt with engines with this type of exhaust valve. You can if you wish run a bit narrower seat which will improve flow and last as long as std valve with a wider seat. Running a std width seat to valve contact will get you longer lasting exhaust valve job. A vavle guide clearance that is on the wide side of spec for std exh valves is way loose for sodium filled.

Many machine shops that do vette or porsche motors know how to set up for these valves.

 

[Mach V Dan]

The sodium-filled Evo exhaust valves are indeed a direct replacement for standard DSM exhaust valves. We now stock 'em! The best part is they're around the same price as a normal Mitsu valve. What's not to like?

Evo exhaust valves - click me!

--Dan
Mach V
MachV.com

 

[silverbulletAWD]

HOLY CRAP! That's awesome. I just quit my job and by doing so I lost my machine access temporarily with which I was going to turn down some titianium valves. But this is even better.

Do you, could you, or would you stock the EVO intake valves too? I'll be ordering at least 8 valves from you in about 3 months.

 

[NDgsx]

If anyone does it be shure to go by EVO service manual specs for exhaust valve seat width. Either that a shop that has delt with engines with this type of exhaust valve. You can if you wish run a bit narrower seat which will improve flow and last as long as std valve with a wider seat.

Going off memory spec seat width is the same range as it was on the TEL. There is a large range there though. Stem clearance is also the same.

 

[defrag010]

ford used mercury filled valvestems in their 391 motor with good sucess.

 

[Mach V Dan]

Do you, could you, or would you stock the EVO intake valves too? I'll be ordering at least 8 valves from you in about 3 months.

Evo intake valves are the same as DSM intake valves.



--Dan
Mach V
MachV.com

 

[silverbulletAWD]

Oh... Huh... I thought I saw someone say the EVO's intake valves were hollow but now that I look back I don't see any such statement. My bad, and here I was all excited.

Here's a question. What do you guy's think would hold up to a truely extreme situation better, A SS valve or an EVO 8 valve? Stainless holds up well, especially considering the heat transfer properties it posseses. Stock valves would not last long at all in my situation. So are the EVO 8 valves made of the exact same metal as stock DSM valves add the sodium filled stems? Will the filled valves disipate heat better than the Stainless will resist it?

 

[burldude]

Really good question

I would like to know what the input is on this one . I decided to go with titanium . Stainless while heavy, can take serious abuse .

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Really good question

I would like to know what the input is on this one . I decided to go with titanium . Stainless while heavy, can take serious abuse .

You have 16 titanium paper weights, while everyone else in this thread has 16 working valves. Stop making threads about 60,000 mile oil filters, titanium engines, lagless turbo's, etc.. and your posts will carry more weight.

I went with stainless swirl polished valves. They're holding up to my abuse quite well

 

[burldude]

You have 16 titanium paper weights, while everyone else in this thread has 16 working valves. Stop making threads about 60,000 mile oil filters, titanium engines, lagless turbo's, etc.. and your posts will carry more weight.

I went with stainless swirl polished valves. They're holding up to my abuse quite well

You again ? I am not trying to brag, now I see how that may have come across . Great comment though , I hope they are "paper weights" or paper weight. :laugh:

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

You again ? I am not trying to brag, now I see how that may have come across . Great comment though , I hope they are "paper weights" or paper weight. :laugh:

We really don't see it as you bragging.. well, at least not you bragging on your better qualities :laugh:

I guess if you're spinning a 4g63 to 14,000rpm, you probably need the lightest "paper weight" parts possible though

 

[98spydert]

We really don't see it as you bragging.. well, at least not you bragging on your better qualities :laugh:

I guess if you're spinning a 4g63 to 14,000rpm, you probably need the lightest "paper weight" parts possible though

Can't you just pass his threads and posts over without commenting? Your dumb ass insults after everyone of his posts are worse than the idiotic topics he comes up with! :thumbdown

 

[pinknuggit]

yeah, no shit. Even I'm not that bad about arguing.

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[Mirage2LTurbo]

Can't you just pass his threads and posts over without commenting? Your dumb ass insults after everyone of his posts are worse than the idiotic topics he comes up with! :thumbdown

No. Every post he makes is more mis-information. There's no place for it.

 

[markgholland]

Stupidity should be pointed out, and we all know that bsplurge, or whatever his name is, makes nothing but stupid comments.

 

[bastarddsm]

hey burldude,

did you know that titanium is one of the worst metals for an exhaust valve in a turbo application. ya it isn't tolerant to high heat. and when a head comes off a valve it isn't pretty, but you already know that, right? ya i thought you were a metalurgist.