[RESOLVED] Front subframe nut removal

[snowborder714]

My brother is trying to drop his front subframe but ran into an issue. He has both the bolts out and 2 of the nuts out. The front drivers side nut is the problem right now. The nut on the passengers side that is still on is loose, but not removed so it can support the subframe. Nothing is able to turn this nut (and if it does turn, the stud turns with it). He's cocked the subframe to put strain on the stud so it won't spin, in hopes of making the nut break free easier, but no luck. He's also been using a penetrating freezing agent to help, but again no luck. And lastly he tried an IR impact gun with 1100 ft.lbs. and it still won't move.

For those of you who have removed the front subframe, have you had this issue and how did you get around it?

 

[Auto RS T]

Borrow some torches and heat the nut to get it off. I've had some success using the little blue propane torches even. The trick is to get it really hot. Use a six point socket when you try to remove it, preferbly in 1/2 inch drive with a cheater pipe or breaker bar. Once you get it loose and get it coming off and if it starts to get stiff, use the penetrating spray on it to finish the job. You'll want to run a dye over the stud before you install the nut. Good luck guys, whatever method you end up using.

 

[snowborder714]

He did think of that, but doesn't want to accidentally burn the bushing, as it's expensive. I'll let him know though!

 

[turbosax2]

Thanks for the response, Jim. I have only been using a 1/2" drive 6 pt. socket on the nut. With a 3' cheater pipe the nut and stud will turn together (although it is hard to turn). With my friend's impact gun neither the stud or nut will spin at all. I just looked up the price of the bushing and it's actually not too bad, only $15, but the main concern for me is the time frame I'm working in. The subframe doesn't have to come out but I would have preferred it to come out when I paint my engine bay this weekend. So I'm hesitant to use the heat method right now in case I actually do set the bushing on fire. I also hate knowing that I have a 'problem' with the car so it's tough for me to NOT want to proceed on at this point

Anybody else have other suggestions? This nut is on there good...

 

[turbosax2]

Just found a tool called a "nut splitter", supposedly you can rent them from auto parts stores. Anyone try one of these before? Or maybe Loctite freeze & release?

 

[Auto RS T]

You could try cutting the nut with a dremel, hacksaw, or cutoff wheel. Just putting a relief cut in the nut may be enough to get it off. Never used a splitter myself, so I can't help you out there.

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Just found a tool called a "nut splitter", supposedly you can rent them from auto parts stores. Anyone try one of these before? Or maybe Loctite freeze & release?

I have used a craftsmen nut splitter before and as long as you can fit it properly onto this particular nut, it should work great for you. Just be careful to not cut into the threads on the stud.

Bill

 

[92AWDHX40]

i used a half inch with a socket and a breaker bar.

 

[turbosax2]

I got the nut off. I used a nut splitter from Advance Auto Parts and it was difficult to use there, especially because the nut is flanged and the big washer has a lip on it pointing down. I managed to cut the nut 3/4 of the way through on one side, then decided to give the impact another go and it slowly worked the nut off.

But now......

I have a bigger problem. The stud is rusted to the metal sleeve in the bushing. I've tried smacking the subframe downwards with hammer/piece of wood, sticking a small screwdriver between the stud and sleeve to loosen the rust, hitting the stud with a rubber mallet, lots of spraying penetrating lube, and even jumping up and down on the subframe a little.

The only thing I can think of now is to separate the metal sleeve from the rubber bushing, then drop the subframe and cut the metal sleeve off the stud (if I mess up some threads it's not a big deal because the nut doesn't go up that high. Anybody else have other ideas that don't involve getting a new bushing?

Also, can the bushings be pressed in with hand tools, or is a press required? They're pretty rubbery so I think I could do it by hand.

 

[Auto RS T]

Pickle fork between the sleeve and the body? Air hammer on top of the subframe in that area? Would some type of claw gear puller fit there? In most cases the only way to remove something like this is to ruin the bushing. On my 1g I was able to do the bushings by hand for what that's worth. I did install poly bushings however. Keep going Sax!

 

[92AWDHX40]

yeah keep working, been watching your builds, its nice, keep it up.

 

[turbosax2]

I'll have to check if a pickle fork might work. I don't have access to an air hammer though. Gear puller is an interesting thought. I don't have one but could get one. I'm not sure if it would work though because I would be pushing on the stud (which has a point at the end) and I risk damaging it. Looks like I might have to ruin the bushing but still open to suggestions! Thanks the for help Jim.

 

[Auto RS T]

If you were to use the puller you would have to use some type of piece between the puller point and the stud point, something with a double bevel for the points to fit into. Or a long nut like a lugnut or tube to slide/thread over the stud and guide the puller bolt up and against the stud. At work I use this chunk of brass that I have named the "golden nugget". I mostly use it for going against crankshafts that require a puller to remove the dampner, but the brass is good for going against the steel and not damaging it.

 

[eclipsh]

In my experience pulling parts that are seized that bad isn't going to happen with a gear puller but it is worth a try. You can use a socket as a spacer if you have an SAE one you don't tend to use and can risk damaging. Pick one that will fit over the stud nicely and give you a pocket for the puller. I use that trick all the time when I pull steering wheels.

For $15 you may want to order the bushing now just in case you have to replace it. It is a cheap part to have on hand and you can probably sell it if need be.

 

[turbosax2]

Pickle fork wouldn't fit and I couldn't get access to an air hammer. The gear puller wouldn't have worked directly to the subframe because only 1/2 of the subframe there had a lip for the puller to seat on, so the third finger couldn't have seated anywhere.

I ended up separating the rubber from the metal and then cutting the sleeve off with a Dremel. It was rusted all the way up and took 2 hours to cut the sleeve off, so I don't think there was any way to avoid this.

I will now replace the bushing I damaged, but the other ones appear to be in great shape so I'm leaving them alone.

Thanks for the help and ideas!

 

[turbosax2]

I got the bushing in with a bench vise and the subframe is now bolted in. The bushing wouldn't quite fit in all the way with just using the vice to press it in. But once the subframe was bolted up in the car the bushing seated fully.