big 16g or small 16g

[RockfordGST]

How can you visually tell the difference between the big and small 16g's

 

[Boosted98gsx]

the compressor fans are different. If you look at the plate that the blades are attached to, the Big 16g's has a dome in the center of it while the small's is flat.

 

[RockfordGST]

on the intake side mine has a nut with kind of a dome with a hole in it

 

[RockfordGST]

on the intake side mine has a nut with kind of a dome with a hole in it

 

[cucumber]

They flow similar numbers, there is not enough difference to constitute the adjectives "big" and "small" in front of there name.

 

[SoCaliEclipse]

i want a big16g!
heh

 

[DCJ98GST]

Difference in spool? With both unclipped.

 

[waterdeep]

13rpm =)

 

[T6Rocket]

Big 16G & small 16G is actually "old style" 16G & "new style" 16G. I have used both turbos, and in my opinion, I would rather have the quicker-spooling and newer technology "small 16G".

The old 16G was all but extinct in 1997, but they dug up the dinasour for us who want that extra 5-10 HP..........

Al

 

[cucumber]

Originally posted by T6Rocket
Big 16G & small 16G is actually "old style" 16G & "new style" 16G. I have used both turbos, and in my opinion, I would rather have the quicker-spooling and newer technology "small 16G".

The old 16G was all but extinct in 1997, but they dug up the dinasour for us who want that extra 5-10 HP..........

Al

I concur. Well said.

 

[dcskater82]

There is such a difference between a small 16g and a big 16. Ive got a friend with a small16 and a friend with a big 16 , and the big 16 definitly pulls alot harder. thats what influenced my decision to get one...

 

[candela]

Whatever Mr. Old thread finding argument starter

 

[90AWDTalon]

I recently had to make this decision. After looking at the flowcharst I went with the small 16G. It look like to me unless your maxing out the flow and running a ton of boost, which I'm not doing as this is a daily driven street car, the small 16G is the better choice because it produces similar flow as the the big 16G, except when maxed out, but is more efficient in doing so. More efficect means doesn't heat up the incomming air as much. Cooler air means more power.

I went with Slowboy Racing, I got it ported, 34mm flapper, and new oil feed line. I'm going to install this and a 255 lph fuel pump tomarrow.

 

[RamenPride]

Originally posted by dcskater82
There is such a difference between a small 16g and a big 16. Ive got a friend with a small16 and a friend with a big 16 , and the big 16 definitly pulls alot harder. thats what influenced my decision to get one...

So you're saying both cars were setup EXACTLY the same??

Anyway, I went with the small 16G.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Heavy Mitsubishi Industries's Big16G Turbo also comes with a 70mm Dia Hot side, the Small 16G has only a 60mm hot side... Some of the other differences might include a "twin-scroll" intake turbine design on the Big 16, vs the Small 16g, that has the same type of turbine design as your OE 14B, with only a single scroll impeller, not to mention, the same sized Cold side housing as your 14B...

-Happy with my BIG 16G (Porting, NO clip)

 

[Xain10229]

A big 16g is basically just a bore'd out and ported small 16g, obviously bigger is better. I have a big 16g killer and I like it.

 

[ChicagoGSX]

Originally posted by BoostedTalonTS
Heavy Mitsubishi Industries's Big16G Turbo also comes with a 70mm Dia Hot side, the Small 16G has only a 60mm hot side... Some of the other differences might include a "twin-scroll" intake turbine design on the Big 16, vs the Small 16g, that has the same type of turbine design as your OE 14B, with only a single scroll impeller, not to mention, the same sized Cold side housing as your 14B...

-Happy with my BIG 16G (Porting, NO clip)

Wow most of that post is wrong.
-Most Small 16gs people buy now have the 7cm^2 turbine housing
-Twin-scroll exhaust housing is only on the Big 16gs that come from the EVO I-III. The Big 16gs you buy for DSMs have the SAME 7cm^2 exhaust housing, unless you are one of the few with a 6cm^2.
-Both 16gs and all 14bs have the same TD05H Compressor housing. They are just slightly larger to fit the larger wheels of each. The Big 16g wheel is considered by some to be less efficient than the Small 16g.

 

[pneumo]

The Big 16G is less efficient than the regular 16G according to the compressor flow maps by 6 percentage points.

 

[13secGST]

but if your intercooler can handle a slightly less efficent turbo that can produce what I thought was 40 more hp. then I would go for it...I thought 16g was rated at 340 and b16g at 380...thats just what I saw on a website, but I could be wrong

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Originally posted by ChicagoGSX


Wow most of that post is wrong.
-Most Small 16gs people buy now have the 7cm^2 turbine housing
-Twin-scroll exhaust housing is only on the Big 16gs that come from the EVO I-III. The Big 16gs you buy for DSMs have the SAME 7cm^2 exhaust housing, unless you are one of the few with a 6cm^2.
-Both 16gs and all 14bs have the same TD05H Compressor housing. They are just slightly larger to fit the larger wheels of each. The Big 16g wheel is considered by some to be less efficient than the Small 16g.

Well I guess that Mike @ DSS was full of it when I ordered my Big 16G from him about 3 years ago... Either that or, you are not reffering to a Heavy Mitsubishi Industries' Big 16G.

Also, i used the terms "Scroll", just as he did, when he was explaining the differences to me, prior to me making my purchase. -He said that the Big 16G's COLD side turbine has two different types of fins... Some are taller that the others, in a staggered formation, one up, one down , ect... the small 16G does not have this, and is quite literally a 14B with a larger hot side turbine dia & exh housing. -All this being said prior to the Evo8's landing on US soil with it's "twin scroll".


Still happy with my 16G (although I have to admit -at first, it spooled like a dawg until it met my diegrinder -Hee hee)

 

[JayHass]

Originally posted by Xain10229
A big 16g is basically just a bore'd out and ported small 16g, obviously bigger is better. I have a big 16g killer and I like it.

Ugh....

No it's NOT.

Here is the deal with the Big and small 16G. It's in the archives if you really wanted to find it but I'll write it again.

14B:
6cm2 turbine housing
1.93"/49mm ExducerDiameter (in.)
2.20"/56mmInducer Diameter (in.)

Small compressor wheel that flows 450 cfm about 76% efficient.

Small 16G:
7cm2 turbine housing
1.93"/49mm ExducerDiameter (in.)
2.20"/56mmInducer Diameter (in.)

Same compressor housing as 14B with a larger 16G compressor wheel that flows 512cfm about 77% efficient.

Big 16G:
7cm2 turbine housing
1.93"/49mm ExducerDiameter (in.)
2.20"/56mmInducer Diameter (in.)

Same compressor housing as 14B and small 16G with even larger 16G compressor wheel that flows 520cfm about 71% efficient.


Why is the big 16G less efficient? Simple. The larger compressor wheel that flows more is too big for the compressor housing and that kills a few points on efficiency. If you have an intercooler that is really efficient. (Read: big front mount) the Big 16g WILL make more power, but without it, it's pretty much a wash between the two.

My theory is with proper careful porting and extrude honing the CRAP out of the housing will bring the Big16g up a few points in efficiency. As I have mentioned before I have a friend who is a garrett engineer and according to his tests Extrude honing turbine and compresso housings even in opitmal situations is worth a few points of efficiency, better flow and better transient response!

That's like having a cam that gives you better low end AND top end.

I would also be in favor of putting an 8cm housing on.

I hope that clears up the mystery about the 16G. :breath:

 

[ChicagoGSX]

Originally posted by BoostedTalonTS

Also, i used the terms "Scroll", just as he did, when he was explaining the differences to me, prior to me making my purchase. -He said that the Big 16G's COLD side turbine has two different types of fins... Some are taller that the others, in a staggered formation, one up, one down , ect... the small 16G does not have this, and is quite literally a 14B with a larger hot side turbine dia & exh housing. -All this being said prior to the Evo8's landing on US soil with it's "twin scroll".

Well either you got lied to or you misunderstood him. The Small 16g has the staggered blades, as does the Big. As Jay said the only difference between the two are the compressor wheels, but I believe they are visually identical.

 

[RamenPride]

Originally posted by ChicagoGSX


Well either you got lied to or you misunderstood him. The Small 16g has the staggered blades, as does the Big. As Jay said the only difference between the two are the compressor wheels, but I believe they are visually identical.

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Guess which one's which?

 

[JayHass]

Exactly. Also something I forgot to mention with porting and extrude honing the compressor housing is in addition to getting the efficiency back, I'm willing to bet you gain a LOT of flow. I have no empiracal data right now but I'm willing to make a solid bet that small housing is holding the bigger wheel back from a flow standpoint as well.

FYI the 18G is very similar to a Big 16G compressor wheel with a larger TD06 compressor housing. Very close in size.

Hmm now you have me thinking about a TD06 compressor housing on a big 16G. Now I gotta go do some quick and dirty calculations....

Edit: In fact here you go!

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[DCJ98GST]

Jay

So you are saying that the big 16G wheel is efficient but it is matched with the wrong housing. Therefore all these compressor maps for all these various compressor wheels only are right if you use the same housing.

I always wondered why the big16G wheel was so inefficient. I mean damn 71% max is pretty bad. I wonder how much the upgraded compressor housing in the Turbochargers t-28 killer helps the efficiency?

When we are comparing compressor housing what is significant? The three aspects that I can think of are: the A/R of the housing, the size of the inlet and discharge, and the flow area in the scroll ("A" part of A/R).