ARP Stainless Steel Turbo Bolts

[Scrymerr]

I wanted to share my experience using ARP turbo bolts, some problems I encountered, and what I learned. Here goes:

I bought a set of stainless steel ARP turbo bolts to install my FP3052 a while ago. I had installed the bolts as recommended by ARP using their moly lube. These bolts were through the factory cast manifold. After a few months the bolts had worked themselves loose- after noticing an exhaust leak I removed the factory heatshield to find them all finger tight. I relubed them, and torqued them down again assuming I must have undertorqued them the first time. A few months later they had worked themselves loose again. I tightened them down snug so I could drive the car home, and bought a drillpress; I figured the best thing to do was to safety wire them. The next morning, upon removal of the bolts, three were completely seized and broke off in the turbine housing. I was very upset as I now had to remove the turbo, and carefully repair three holes. Additionally, I was out a $35 set of bolts.

After drilling out the holes, and retapping them, I thought to myself: what was the cause of the problem, and how should I fix it. To address the issue of the bolts seizing I realized ARP moly lube was not rated to handle temperatures nearly high enough to be used on turbo bolts. I also realized that using SS bolts in an SS turbine housing was a BAD idea. I was now left with a turbo with two retapped holes (and one that would require a helicoil), and needed a new set of bolts. I figured that even if I took the above precautions, the risk of bolt failure in the future was still real. I decided the best thing to do was to use longer bolts with nuts on the other side. This way if I ever did have a hardware failure in the future that I could simply replace the fasteners and not have to remove the turbo again.

I contacted ARP via e-mail, and attached pictures of the damage. I got a quick response, and was told to call. The guy I talked to at ARP was very helpful and knowledgable. He confirmed my theories on the galling of the bolts. I asked him if he could get me longer bolts made out of chrome moly instead of stainless. He said he could send me what I needed and I am now waiting on my package. In the meantime I went out and bought some nickel based anti-seize. It is available online, and you can get it for just over $20 shipped for half a pound. Nickel anti-seize is rated between 2400-2600 degrees fahrenheit, depending on the brand. Once I get the new hardware, I will reinstall the turbo, and most likely safety wire the nuts on.

In conclusion, I learned a few things:
-Do NOT use stainless hardware to secure a stainless turbine housing; ARP recommended a differential of 10 on the 'hardness scale' (which I am not entirely sure that is just yet). I would recommend either factory bolts, are ARP's chrome moly bolts.
-Buy nickel antiseize for using on ANY hardware on or near the turbo. The $20 will definately be worth it if it prevents you from having to drill out even one bolt. Anything else will not likely withstand the heat.
-ARP has great customer service, and stand behind their product. I am very happy that ARP was willing to help me with an alternative solution to my problem, rather than just offering to replace the bolts.

If you read this far, I hope this helped. So if you buy a new FP turbine housing, be careful with SS bolts!

 

[Street Surgeon]

Yeah, it's pretty well known that their turbo bolts snap or sieze up for whatever reason. I'd forego the headache and just use a new oem set. If you really want to hold them down though you can use a set of nordlock washers to hold them in place and torqued down.

 

[DSM Jeff]

I was given a set of those arp stainless turbo bolts and am wondering if I should use them on a stock mitsu turbo, or just stick to stock bolts?

 

[TSiAWD666]

Why did you waste your money on this garbage and not use stock bolts? They work fine.

Btw, did you use new OEM lock washers on the ARP bolts? They're there to keep the bolts under tension so they don't back out like you described, and from your problems I'm guessing you didn't. If you look at new washers they are somewhat... bowed, from the inner edge in that the inner edge is higher ( or lower depending on how you look at the washers) than the outer edge. Stock also has you doubling these washers up. Old washers will lose their spring and should be replaced per your inspection.

 

[Scrymerr]

Why did you waste your money on this garbage and not use stock bolts? They work fine.

Btw, did you use new OEM lock washers on the ARP bolts? They're there to keep the bolts under tension so they don't back out like you described, and from your problems I'm guessing you didn't. If you look at new washers they are somewhat... bowed, from the inner edge in that the inner edge is higher ( or lower depending on how you look at the washers) than the outer edge. Stock also has you doubling these washers up. Old washers will lose their spring and should be replaced per your inspection.

I am glad that you are an expert on turbo bolts, and a wise-guy as well. I needed new turbo bolts, and these bolts were only about fifteen dollars more than factory bolts. If you ever ever broken off even one turbo bolt in the turbine housing, the fifteen dollars would have been well spent if the breakage could have been avoided. So, the stock bolts work fine, but what is wrong with trying to get something better?

As far as the washers go, I did not use stock washers. I trust that ARP puts some R&D into their products, and for these bolts they felt one washer was all that was needed. You also have to realize that these bolts are made out of a different material than factory bolts, and will therefor have expand differently under heat. This should be accounted for in their designing of the bolt/washer set. According to ARP, the bolts were just not tight enough, which is why they were backing out. Although I do not agree with this completely, and think that factory style washers may have helped, I did not question this upon first installing them.

Next time it won't matter. If other people have also have problems with ARP turbo bolts backing out, someone may suggest revising the washers included in the set. For now, lockwire and nickel antiseize will be perfect.

 

[snowborder714]

I was given a set of those arp stainless turbo bolts and am wondering if I should use them on a stock mitsu turbo, or just stick to stock bolts?

Stick with OEM turbo bolts.

Obviously you didn't read the first post.

 

[Scrymerr]

I would not say that just because of my troubles that no one should use these bolts. People break factory bolts all the time, which that sucks. It is reasonable to seek a better bolt. A factory turbo does not have a stainless turbine housing, so when using stainless bolts, the chance of galling will be less. I would just use some high temp anti-seize (as I definately would with factory bolts as well!) and torque them to spec. Then see how they are, and let us know if they back out on you. If not, and you go to remove them sometime, I am sure the different materials (turbine housing and bolts) and the use of high temp anti-seize will allow you to remove the bolts without problems.

 

[DSM Jeff]

Stick with OEM turbo bolts.

Obviously you didn't read the first post.

I did read the first post. I've broken stock bolts before. I've had brand new mitsu bolts ruin threads of a mitsu turbo, using mitsu washers torqueing to mitsu spec. I've also seen other mitsu bolts break on stock and aftermarket turbo's first hand.

I see the concern is galling which shouldn't be as much of a concern since I'm not running a stainless hotside. I may put them on my other car to hold the 14b on till it blows up and then see how they are coming out.

Scrymerr-I won't be getting to do this for another month as I'm building up a car for my father. I'll definatly try some high temp anti seize that I have but won't know for a long time. The 14b thats on the car is kinda weak so hopefully it'll let go sooner then later so I can check it out, .

 

[Savage Talon]

I had the same problems as the OP in a PTE turbo (non-stainless hsg). I now have OEM bolts after the headache the ARP's gave me.

 

[droppinbottom]

I am thankful for this post. I just purchased a t3 manifold from punishment racing and a gt35r hta from FP. I was thinking this morning on my way to work about what bolts I would need and low and behold there is a post about it on here. Currently I have the eIII manifold and turbo on my car with (if I remember correct) 2g bolts with the double washer. I have not had them back out so far. When I do get my new setup what would you all recomend?

Thanks in advance

 

[Scrymerr]

To follow up on this topic, I got my new lengthened SS ARP turbo bolts the other day. I drilled three of the holes out on the turbo and test fitted the bolts. ARP was really great in sending me new stuff, and regardless of the problems I have the first time, I know now what I need to do to avoid that. ARP also sent me two sets of these bolts, so if I ever do break one, I will just pull it out and stick a new one in and not ever have to worry about messing with the turbo.

Pics will follow soon enough.

Dan

 

[Jafro]

I know this is long-since resolved. But there's most likely a much more obscure issue occurring. I had this problem after a turbo upgrade, and the turbo used the same flange as the previous, so I had no doubts it wasn't some weird fitment issue. I was even using factory bolts and had the exact same story, and the exact-same luck. Broken bolts and all.

It turned out I left one bolt out of a flange that's located below the o2 housing where the exhaust bolts up. My Apex'i 3" downpipe has this flange on it, but the vast majority of aftermarket downpipes don't. The car I'm working on right now doesn't have one. It lines up with a bracket that's bolted to the block behind the turbo. I'm welding one on there shortly once the turbo and exhaust are back on. It's imperative that bolt's in place on a turbo DSM, and it's on every factory car for a reason. Here's why...

The only thing holding your exhaust in place aside from that bolt is a bunch of rubber hangers. If you don't have that one particular M10 bolt there, the only thing between the whole length and weigh of your exhaust and the manifold are those 4 bolts and your turbo. The whole exhaust works like a giant pry bar and wrenches everything loose when you accelerate, decelerate, or take hard turns because it's bouncing all around on those rubber hangers.

In addition to that, the ARP bolts come with 4 flat washers instead of 8 spring washers, so there's no spring-effect to the bolts to hold them in place. I know because I'm looking for torque specs for a set I have here next to me, and I'm not using these flippin' flat washers at all after reading this. This is my first time working with these. I'm sure the ARP bolts are fine, but you need the right washers, and an exhaust support bracket bolting your exhaust to the block. It's worked on a half-dozen cars for me so far. I'll post a video of it on YouTube when I'm done for the curious.

EDIT: I CANT FIND THOSE FLIPPING ARP TORQUE SPECS ANYWHERE. WITH ARP LUBE OR WITH OIL? HELP