Interesting Dyno

[larryd]

I thought you guys might find this dyno sheet interesting.. Its a comparison of my best dyno runs with the T25, Big28 and L2R.

<A HREF="http://www.newcelica.org/larryd/dyno/dyno-comparison.jpg" target="_new"><b>Click Here</b></a>

 

[Wilsonman02]

man larry, look how fast that freakin L2R spools. That quote on AGP's site is true "will have u bouncing off the rev limiter in no time"

 

[96turbogst]

damn larry .. I found my gift to myself

 

[NJGSX96]

Very nice. An excellent dyno to plot for those in search of a new turbo.

Are those all pulls off your car Larry?

 

[larryd]

yea, all 3 are pulls off my car from various stages in its progression..

T25, Injen Intake, Greddy Upper & Lower IC Piping, Greddy S Type BOV, Apexi N1 Exhaust, Apexi Front Pipe & Cat Bypass, Magnecor 8.5mm Wires, NGK Plugs, Greddy Profec B Boost Controller

FP Big 28, TRE Ported O2 Housing, Greddy FMIC, Injen Intake, Greddy Upper & Lower IC Piping, Greddy S Type BOV, Apexi N1 Exhaust, Apexi Front Pipe & Cat Bypass, Magnecor 8.5mm Wires, NGK Plugs, Greddy Profec B Boost Controller, Apexi S-AFC, RC Engineering 550s, B&M FPR & Gauge, 3KGTVR4 Fuel Pump

AGP L2R, 1st Gen Throttle Body (60mm), 1st Gen Intake Manifold (60mm), 2nd Gen Ported Head, 1990 Eclipse Cams, 2nd Gen Ported Exhaust Manifold, Victory Performance O2 Housing, Tial 40mm External Wastegate, Large Greddy FMIC, 3" Dejon Tool Intake, Greddy Upper & Lower IC Piping, Greddy S Type BOV, Apexi 3" N1 Exhaust, Apexi Down Pipe & Cat Bypass, Taylor 10.2mm Wires, Hallman MBC, Bosch 650 Injectors, Supra Fuel Pump, Charged Air Fuel Pressure Regulator w/1st Gen Fuel Rail, DSMLink w/ 95 Eprom ECU

 

[kyle]

That actually shows a great comparison between the turbos. Very helpful to see results from each thing.

 

[DCJ98GST]

Were those all done in 3rd? What is the gear ratio for third gear, I am just trying to calculate rpms instead of speed along the bottom.

 

[larryd]

yes. there all done in 3rd gear. Id show them in rpms but the Big28 run didnt register on RPMs so I couldnt have all 3 of them with that. Anyhow the RPMs are as follows

3000 - 42
4000 - 57
5000 - 69
6000 - 85
7000 - 98
8000 - 114

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by kyle
That actually shows a great comparison between the turbos. Very helpful to see results from each thing.

Yes and no. This a very interesting comparison. I wish I had the forethought and planning, oh, and money to dyno after every big jumpin modifications. That would be good to see what really makes a difference and what doesn't.

Kyle, the reason I say "no" is because so many other things changed. You could argue, looking at the chart and no knowing anything else about Larry's car that the boost alone was responsible for the power increase. Which it is, to an extent. We all know, however, that a T25 will not do 28 PSI or even flow enough air to make 380 HP if it did push 28 Psi. You look at the three runs and they incrementally step up, 19, 21 and then 28 psi. If you normalize for boost:

HP/lb of boost:
T25 = 10.7
T28 = 12.5
AGP = 13.7

So, his engine's VE did increase because he is making more power for a given amount of "pressure".

Another interesting item is how flat the T25/T28 curves are. You can see that the turbos are flowing well below the flow limitations of the engine.

Notice how peaky the AGP is. The intake, cams and maybe even the exhaust are starting to choke down the engine at the higher RPM's. The trick to a haul ass car is keep that torque up on the right side as RPM's increase.

At 6000 RPM, Larry, you are making 335 ft.lbs of torque. If you could maintain that torque until your 8500 RPM redline, you would be pumping out 542 HP to the wheels!!! That is over 600 to the crank? Now that is serious!

I see some cams in your future Larry, and maybe a new intake manifold. Oh, and a MAP sensor. Good runs!

 

[larryd]

I was thinking the same thing about the different amounts of boost on the 3 different turbos but the way I look at it is the 3 of them are maxed out.

Your not going to run much more then 19lbs of boost on a T25, 21lbs of boost on a Big28, or 28lbs of boost on a L2R..

so basically it just shows what maxing out each of the turbo's boost wise can do. though the #s are actually pretty low for the big28 and the L2r..

And yes, I forsee CAMS soon.. not sure about the IM, thats $$

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by larryd
Your not going to run much more then 19lbs of boost on a T25, 21lbs of boost on a Big28, or 28lbs of boost on a L2R..

You don't think more than 28 lbs on an L2R? Isn't that running the new GT30 wheel? If Garrett would release their freaking flow maps, we would know this answer.

Larry, I have to believe that turbo still has quite a bit of margin in it. The reason I say is because on AGP's site, the compressor is rated at 54 lb/min. Without a flow map, that is all we have to go on. Maybe Slowboy or AGP can comment since they make the turbos.

The T04E/50-trim is rated at 48 lbs/min. It's map shows a high pressure ratio of 3.6 (36 PSI) and that is still in the 74% efficiency island. You are only at a pressure ratio of 2.8 running 28 psi. I have to believe that this newest, whiz-bang, curved blade compressor that Garrett has released will eclipse their old "favorite". And, your GT wheel is rated to flow 6lb/min more air than a 50-trim. That could be 60 HP right there and yours should do it more efficiently than mine.

I don't think I would run more than 28 PSI though. That is a lot. You have balls to crank it that high. I guess you'll have to work on your engine flow (cams, intake, etc) and then on increasing your charge density.

 

[larryd]

the question is what psi is the 54lb/min rated at? Do you have to increase the boost to get there or is it more of a engine flow issue with the intake manifold and cams and what not?

 

[Violater101]

I think your Lbs/min will go up as you increase boost pressure, however, it will go up even more when you free up restrictions like the intake manifold. YOu said you already have a ported head, not sure to what extent, but nonetheless it helps as would cams

 

[2-0turbo]

Originally posted by larryd
the question is what psi is the 54lb/min rated at? Do you have to increase the boost to get there or is it more of a engine flow issue with the intake manifold and cams and what not?

Hum...this would be a question for Robert, or Mike or Kevin. I know Garrett quotes their numbers at a certain "standard", but I do not know what that is. It should consist of a temp and a PSIA reading.

 

[SPEEDY]

Just curious Larry... can you remember if you were running race gas or not, when you dynoed with the Big28? Thanks!

 

[larryd]

nope, that was pump gas.. the T25 and Big28 were both pump gas and the L2R was race gas.

 

[Slowboy]

I have garrett maps for GT series. But I am not sure they are public knowledge just yet.

I will say the GT12/ L2R does not have as good of map as a 50 trim. Ask me about a specific point on the map, and I will let you know, or email me at my regular email ( better choice, since I am not here all that often )

Regards,

Mike Huml

PS.... Nice HP Larry! That makes for a fun street ride!

 

[kyle]

2-0turbo
Those are very good points. I just stated that knowing what different set ups larry had on those runs (we all know he loves to show all his toys off ). Seriously thanks for the break down and explanation.

 

[Thalomos]

Why would u shift at 8 grand when u lose every bit of power up that high?

 

[larryd]

because I wanted to see where the power drop off would be at.. obviously the stock cams are no good for high revving

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by larryd
nope, that was pump gas.. the T25 and Big28 were both pump gas and the L2R was race gas.

Larry correct if I'm wrong here... I was thinking that you had some other dyno graphs of where you hit 223whp with the stock T-25, and 280whp with the Big28. If so, were you on pump gas on those runs? Thanks!!

 

[larryd]

yes they were on pump gas as well.. I dont have the 280 or actually 278 on the big28 log anywhere to be found but the 223 on the T25 I do have. The only reason I didnt put it up is because I hit fuel cut on that run and it would make the graph look bad.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by larryd
yes they were on pump gas as well.. I dont have the 280 or actually 278 on the big28 log anywhere to be found but the 223 on the T25 I do have. The only reason I didnt put it up is because I hit fuel cut on that run and it would make the graph look bad.

That's cool. Thanks!!

 

[larryd]

np..