Lots Of Questions..

[larryd]

BEWARE - LONG POST

I know this is alot of questions but Im going nuts here and I need alot of help figuring out everything I need and what I should be expecting.. First off here is the list of things I have on my immediate list..

Crower/HKS/Web Cams
Cam Gears
ARP Head Stud Kit
1st Gen Throttle Body
1st Gen Intake Manifold
1st Gen Head
Valve Job
Exhaust Manifold Ported
Turbo Porting
Fidanza Flywheel
Act 2600
Timing Belt Stuff

Cams.. Web Cams are the cheapest but you really get a toss up on opinion when it comes down to them. HKS, well everyone agree's HKS makes really good cams but the ?? is are you paying to much for just the name?? Crower Cams.. well in a nutshell Im going to try and get them for free, plus Ive heard good thnigs about them. I dont know what grind Id go with with the Crower Cams though..

Cam Gears.. I was looking at the Crower Cam Gears.. there 330 bucks for the set of em from Crower, once again Im going to see if I can get em for free.. I dont know what else to look into other then unorthodox and venom, the venoms look awesome but they cost alot I think??

ARP Head Stud Kit.. no questions here.. if Im taking the head off, its going back on with the ARP Head Studs..

1st Gen Throttle Body..what years can i get the throttle body from so that it will work directly with my 98, I beleive there is a difference in the amount of nipples on the throttle body from different years but Im not positive which one I need..Also I dont think id want to port the throttle body as id need a new throttle plate if I did that correct?

1st Gen Intake Manifold..same question as above but for the intake manifold, as in which one fits and should i port the intake manifold or is it big enuf as is??

1st Gen Head..do I want a 1st gen head that needs valve job or my 2nd gen head port matched to the 1st gen intake manifold? the 1st gen head I can get for 100 bucks.. but it needs new valve guides..

2nd Gen Exhaust Manifold..I guess I would need to get my exhaust manifold port matched to the head assuming I get the head ported which im assuming I should..

Big 28 Porting..lastly the turbo.. I would want the turbo port matched to the exhaust manifold right?? do i need to get a 7cm gasket from FP or should the machine shop have it??

Act 2600 and Fidanza Flywheel are pretty much next on my list regardless becuase my clutch is slipping and if Im gonna take it apart Im going to do both at the same time and I think I need the 2600 to hold the more power that I want to push eventually..

Timing Belt Stuff.. what in all is needed to do the timing belt job?? Id like to get the parts myself and when I put everything back together change the timing belt since Im at 52k now, better safe then sorry I spose..

Also... what kinda $$ should I expect to pay for all of this stuff, including parts and labor for porting.. Id like to have an idea before I go to the machine shop so I dont get raped..

I know this is alot of questions but Im going nuts here trying to figure out what the next step is, one or two things would be more logical at a time but everytime i think that I go back and say well if Im going to do this then I need to do this and that as well, and that brings up the whole list, which actually could be alot longer but I think I got it narrowed down to what it should be.. Anyhow people I really appreciate anything you can do to answer my questions as I need basically a complete run down of what should be done as the next step, so thanks in advance..

 

[crankbender]

port match the 2g head (not sure on this but it is the general concensus and you can have them do the valve oversizing at the same time). You are going to need new springs and retaining clips. proabaly new valves too (check out turbotrix for prices). That is just to get the cams in.

I am comming to well over 2 grand plus labor.

My $.02

 

[larryd]

so r u saying that I would need new springs, retaining clips and valves for cams? how come other people dont do this? I really dont want to build the engine to be bullit proof, I just want to be able to bolt stuff on like cams should be a direct replacement, but if there not going to make any power then itd be pointless..

also r u saying that id be better off just porting a 2g head instead of a 1st gen head?

 

[NosLaser]

....Cams.. Web Cams are the cheapest but you really get a toss up on opinion when it comes down to them. HKS, well everyone agree's HKS makes really good cams but the ?? is are you paying to much for just the name?? Crower Cams.. well in a nutshell Im going to try and get them for free, plus Ive heard good thnigs about them. I dont know what grind Id go with with the Crower Cams though.. ....

This is my opinion. I personally feel with HKS, you are paying too much money for not enough product. HKS came into the market at the right time, when the import scene was new and very fertile. They made a big name for themselves through well-placed advertising, and it didn't hurt that peple ALWAYS think things are better if they're made in Japan. You always hear people fretting over getting a Jap-spec whateveritis, when in all reality, it ain't any different than what you already have. Take for example my personal favorite, the PFC-Fcon. It's a 1300 dollar AFC that doesn't even do as much as an AFC! A lot of big companies have been around for a LONG time, such as Crower and Web, however, they have just recently started making products for imports because it's a relatively new market. I say go with the Webs. I have had nothing but good experience with Web cams, friends of mine use Web cams on their 800+ wheel HP Porsches and swear by them. With HKS, I honestly think you are buying a name. Same with their 300 dollar air filter that doesn't even flow as well as a 35 dollar K&N. See my point?

...Cam Gears.. I was looking at the Crower Cam Gears.. there 330 bucks for the set of em from Crower, once again Im going to see if I can get em for free.. I dont know what else to look into other then unorthodox and venom, the venoms look awesome but they cost alot I think?? ...

Came gears are cam gears. If they don't break, they're fine. Don't waste your time worrying too much here.


...1st Gen Throttle Body..what years can i get the throttle body from so that it will work directly with my 98, I beleive there is a difference in the amount of nipples on the throttle body from different years but Im not positive which one I need..Also I dont think id want to port the throttle body as id need a new throttle plate if I did that correct? ...

The nipples on the TB will all be blocked off anyway. They are useless vacuum lines that are used for emissions control only. You live in Deleware (correct?) so I guess I wouldn't recommend blocking off the coolant lines to the TB as it will slightly hinder cold starts. And you don't port a throttle body. To do it properly, you have it bored. Porting the throttle body just up to the throttle plate really won't do a darn thing, and to properly 'up-size' a throttle body, you'd have to remove the throttle plate, have it bored X amount over, and have a custom throttle plate sized to spec and installed. A lot of work for a minimal gain. You'll likely never outflow that TB unless you are looking to make serious power. This isn't coming down on you, but if you were looking to make the power it would require to outflow that TB, you would already know the answers to every question you have asked on here.

...1st Gen Intake Manifold..same question as above but for the intake manifold, as in which one fits and should i port the intake manifold or is it big enuf as is?? ...

Again, for your application, the stock 1G manifold will do nicely.

...1st Gen Head..do I want a 1st gen head that needs valve job or my 2nd gen head port matched to the 1st gen intake manifold? the 1st gen head I can get for 100 bucks.. but it needs new valve guides.. ...

Keep your 2G head and have it ported. The 2G head actually has a better port design than the 1G, it simply gets outflowed stock for stock due to major port size differences. You will be getting a valve job with whichever head you choose since you are going with Ferrea valves, so just get the 2G head ported. Don't forget to get combustion chamber work and have the bowls ported, as those 2 areas are MAJOR sources of power. Have the intake ports enlarged and be sure all casting marks are removed but be careful not to go too large as you will lose velocity, and get a nice D port on the exhaust side.


...Big 28 Porting..lastly the turbo.. I would want the turbo port matched to the exhaust manifold right?? do i need to get a 7cm gasket from FP or should the machine shop have it?? ...

The turbo hot side is on the same relative lines as the exhaust system. The bigger the better. The bigger the hole, the more air it will flow. Period. Go rather large on the exhaust manifold outlet and turbine side inlet for maximum power.


...Timing Belt Stuff.. what in all is needed to do the timing belt job?? Id like to get the parts myself and when I put everything back together change the timing belt since Im at 52k now, better safe then sorry I spose.. ...

The T-belt job is pretty easy, however I would recommend changing a few extra things just because you will be down there. Change the water pump (they are relatively cheap from Conicelli), the tensioner, B-Belt, A-Belt, and I would also do a front main seal.

...Also... what kinda $$ should I expect to pay for all of this stuff, including parts and labor for porting.. Id like to have an idea before I go to the machine shop so I dont get raped.....

Hehe. This is where it sucks to be an import guy. Import guys don't understand that you can pay upwards of 10 THOUSAND dollars for a good head port job. It all depends on the place doing the work and the type of work you want performed. A decent port job shouldn't cost you much more than 500 bux give or take. Valve jobs are usually $150ish+ and getting the head decked is around 80-100. I'm assuming you are going to have the machine shop assemble the head too since you prolly don't have a spring collapsing tool (or know how to use one) to remove the valve locks so expect to pay another 150-200 for cylinder head assembly.

...I know this is alot of questions but Im going nuts here trying to figure out what the next step is, one or two things would be more logical at a time but everytime i think that I go back and say well if Im going to do this then I need to do this and that as well, and that brings up the whole list, which actually could be alot longer but I think I got it narrowed down to what it should be.. Anyhow people I really appreciate anything you can do to answer my questions as I need basically a complete run down of what should be done as the next step, so thanks in advance.....

That's the way it works. It all depends on how much power you are looking to make. Bottom line is this. You CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT make big power on a budget. There's an analogy that goes along with this. People (and you can substitute 'people' for DSM'ers if you'd like) want things done Good, Fast and Cheap. However, in the real world, you can only have any two of those things at one given time. You can have it done Fast and Cheap, but it won't be Good. You can have it done Good and Cheap, but your car won't be Fast. You can have it done Good and Fast, but it sure as hell won't be Cheap. Good luck.

Regards,

 

[larryd]

so you think Web cams over Crower cams??

and then this would be the rest of the setup

1st Gen Throttle Body, 1st Gen Intake Manifold, Port Matched 2nd Gen Head, Port Matched Exhaust Manifold, Port Matched Turbo.. So basically everything would be the same size..

what about gaskets? do I need to get new gaskets that are a larger size since the openings would be larger now?

and in regards to the head, you said I would need a valve job on the 2nd gen head, why is that?? Can you not port the head without getting a valve job and new valves?

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by larryd

and in regards to the head, you said I would need a valve job on the 2nd gen head, why is that?? Can you not port the head without getting a valve job and new valves?

If you have the head off to get ported, why not get a good valve job to match and have a great head vs doing it half-assed and only having a decent head?

Go big or stay on the porch.

 

[rdrkt]

For cams I would recommend HKS cams I have gone over why before. If you want you can buy my used webs cheap.

For cam gears you can get the Finandanza 160 shipped from Alamo or the OBX gears from a few places under 200.

Take a look here for the tb http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2gtbswap.htm

You can get your head ported and it will run you around 1k or so at BJs cylinder head service http://www.bjscylinderhead.com/mitsupricing.htm

Various porting will run you around 150-200 bucks depending on who is doing it.

Look here for timing belt parts http://www.partznet.com/mitsudsmclub.html

Install prices for all of that stuff would be damn near 1k at most shops. I think you need to find a local DSM mentor that can help you out with a lot of your work

 

[NosLaser]

....If you have the head off to get ported, why not get a good valve job to match and have a great head vs doing it half-assed and only having a decent head?

Go big or stay on the porch.....


Goshdamnit, we agree again.

Regards,

 

[Tevenor]

Originally posted by NosLaser

Goshdamnit, we agree again.

Getting scary ain't it?

 

[larryd]

well im glad you guys agree but going big = costs lots of $$.. Im not lookin to go big.. I just want to do the base stuff and do it if I have to.. Im planning on building another engine over time but for now a 1st gen intake, tb matched to my 2nd gen head would do the trick.

 

[SPEEDY]

Hmmmm... That was very mature! (SARCASM)

 

[SPEEDY]

Anyways... Do you have to have aftermarket cam gears in order to install the cams, or should I say can you use the HKS or WEB, or even the CROWER cams with the stock cam gears?

 

[GSTspeedracer]

YES !!!!

but if you can afford both might as well save some money on labor while your their and get both done at the sametime.

i didn't have the money and only got cams..........broke i am......

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by GSTspeedracer
YES !!!!

but if you can afford both might as well save some money on labor while your their and get both done at the sametime.

i didn't have the money and only got cams..........broke i am......

Thanks for the info! Your definatly making good power!

 

[GSTspeedracer]

I think I just got lucky..........

 

[Mistaspakles]

Go with a 1G head. The web cams sound AWESOME!!!

 

[rdrkt]

Web cams sound dope yo is not a good technical reply and one liners don’t help anything. What does sound have to do with anything? Why should he go with a 1g head what are the benefits? What type of experience do you have with these products?

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I'm personally just going with a 1g TB mated to my 2g intake and head upgraded cams,arp head studs and a new HG. I building a 6-bolt and that's what's going to get ported heads and all the other internal googies.

Later,

 

[dsmtrance]

Web cams sound dope yo is not a good technical reply and one liners don’t help anything. What does sound have to do with anything? Why should he go with a 1g head what are the benefits? What type of experience do you have with these products

.

I know that more $$$ doesn't always mean better. BUT, sometimes it does. It's been stated before (I think by rdrkt), look at what the guys running the big times have in their cars...HKS. I have also talked to a number fo people that have had both the Webs and HKS's. And ALL but 1 or 2 recommended the HKS's hands down. Alot of them had problems with the Webs. Hell, I spent an hour talking to Ken (IRC) last night and he has the 272/272 HKS cams and he told me that they were even "perfectly streetable" (10-12 in vac. at idle)! Most of the other people I talked to are running the 264/272 combo...other than a few of the "race only" cars. I am going to get the HKS 272/272's. My car is about 75% track driven anyways. And I can deal with a not-so-perfect idle, etc. for the added power! Just my .02.

 

[Mitsu_Racing]

You need the May 90-94 Throttle body the 89-April 90 won't work on 2G's

 

[larryd]

wow.. no we are down to specific months

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Yes I have a 92 TB from a TalonTSI on the way to me.

Yes the old 90's have the Vacumm lines in the wrong place and the worng number of them.


Later,

 

[larryd]

what exactly is the difference.. how many hoses are on the early 90s as opposed to the amount of hoses I need?

 

[Mitsu_Racing]

Originally posted by rdrkt
You can get your head ported and it will run you around 1k or so at BJs cylinder head service http://www.bjscylinderhead.com/mitsupricing.htm

You say 1K or so to have the head ported? On the site you listed about it says $150 to have the 2G head ported to match the 1G intake manifold.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Originally posted by Mitsu_Racing


You say 1K or so to have the head ported? On the site you listed about it says $150 to have the 2G head ported to match the 1G intake manifold.

right it's only 150 to port match but to get the whole head and bowls ported out completly it cost aroung 1k.

Later,