turbo or fuel upgrades?

[mstrpimp02]

i have the chance to get a new evo3 16g ported and with the 34mm wastegate flapper and an install kit, shipped to me for $786. now should i go ahead and buy this or do all my fuel upgrades first? if i got the turbo i wouldn't put it on til late spring (when the warranty on my motor is up). i'm planning on getting the greddy emanage, 550's and either a supra fuel pump or a walbro 255. orrrrr... should i just say f it and get an act 2600? i also have the chance to get 18's with tires for $900. yeah i know this is all random, but it's also stuff that i need and i'm just not sure on what to get first.Thanks for any help

 

[1bad92awd]

Me personally, i would get the turbo, but just run low boost til you can afford the fuel mods. Turbo+Fuel, should free up a lot of horsepower for you. Save the rims and stuff for after that. But the feeling of a bigger turbo is really nice. Just my opinion.

 

[KAOTIC95gst]

i would get the turbo just keep your boost low till you get the supporting fuel mods

 

[97TSIAWD]

Go with the turbo, as said before you can run low boost until you get your fuel upgraded. Also by the time you put the turbo on you may have your fuel mods. You can utilize the turbo at least a little, I would say more than fuel mods for the time being. Also once you get the fuel you will need a new clutch, so plan out your expenses for that upgrade as well. The rims, a lot of money you can use towards the clutch/fuel.

 

[16g-95gsx]

Heres my thoughts. The Evo 16g is able to flow 38 or more lb/min in comparison to your T25 which flows around 25lb/min at best, so you are looking at a full 50% more power potential from it, but you need the fuel to make the best of that. I say get the turbo, and sell off the T25 and pay for fueling. Get a 255lph HP as well as a regulator, and dont get 550's, the Evo 16g definately is more than easily capable of outflowing those. Get 650's for that turbo, if that is what you truly plan to stick with, which I imagine it is. As far as a clutch is concerned, your stocker will die very quickly on a setup that includes that turbo and a decent array of supporting mods. So that will quickly become an issue if it obviously hasnt been replaced. The T25 and old 450's can be sold off and pay for a good portion of the fueling. Have the 16g ported, especially the entrance to the wastegate, as that turbo likes to creep badly, just a thought if you're trying to run low boost. You dont want to upgrade the flapper and potentially ruin your high boosting abilities, but you also dont want to creep with no fuel support.

 

[mstrpimp02]

so i shouldn't do the flapper mod... just get it ported?

 

[16g-95gsx]

Yes, the problem with the Evo 16g, isnt the flapper, it is the entrance to the flapper. the entrance to the turbine housing is shaped a way as to block the flow significantly to the wastegate. The stock flapper is more than enough to keep up with the gases it just needs to be ported slightly so that the gases have a smoother flow into the wastegate area. If you upgrade the flapper, you run into high boost issues. The increased surface area, is hard for the internal WG solenoid to keep the flapper shut during high boost/high exhaust flow conditions, causing a reverse boost creep, where the boost will actually drop off in the topend. A turbo such as the Evo 16g is very capable of 22psi or so on a nice setup and pump gas, but increasing the flapper diameter causes that 22psi to drop to say 18psi by redline. A simple port is more than adequate.

 

[1993eclipseGS]

There is no use for a bigger turbo if the supporting mods aren't there first, I say go with all of the supporting mods before upgrading the turbo.

 

[NyQuiL07]

kinda in same situation
bump for more opinions

 

[sweet97]

Turbo first. You will be able to enjoy some of it's HP until you get the rest. I believe I saw you have a 2G so a 1G BOV will be needed to boost beyond 15PSI anyways also as I understand the 2g plastic BOV will not handle much more than 15 PSI biut I will leave that info to 2G owners.
I ran the EVO with 550's and 18 PSI. I did reach 90+ duty cycle with the 550's at 20 si. 660's offer you the fuel you wold need should you someday go to a larger turbo. I didn't think I would go bigger and now I am using a 50 trim!! You will eed to control that fuel also. I use the GM MAFT set-up. I like having the MAF in a blow thru position allowing a true cold air intake.
I was able to find used RC injectors for $185. for the set. With the EVO at 18 psi I was able to run fine without an upgraded pump/AFPR. Ge the clutch when you need one. If you aren't doing hole shots the stock clutch will last you a bit longer. Of course get a cheap MBC also if you don't have one. Mark

 

[16g-95gsx]

I dont understand what makes this choice so hard. Just look at the figures in front of you. If you buy the fuel, you wont want to go with 550's, you'll want 650's at the least for that turbo, if you want a 50trim like the other person mentioned Id damn well hope youd go with larger injectors, I see 80% IDC on my Green and 880's, and I have very conservative fuel settings, so the 660's would be at about 110% IDC, on my daily pump gas settings. If you buy a Evo 16g, you will be more than easily able to outflow the stock injectors and pump, especially the pump. If you get a 255lph HP, which I'd hope you would you will overrun your stock FPR, simple as that. Your gas mileage as well as on/off throttle conditions will suffer, if you feel that the streetability loss there is worth not spending the extra money on a FPR and doing it right, so be it. You will NOT be able to use the stock FP, if you think that on your 1g at 18psi on that Evo 16g without even a rewire your FP is keeping up, you're dead wrong. 2g pumps flow about 30-40% more and even rewired my pump was barely able to keep up with my 16g flowing only 35lb/min, an Evo 16g is more than easily able to flow 38lb/min or more.

You say you run 90% IDC on your 550's at 18psi correct? Now lets start with some numbers here. ((90%*550*4)*60)/1000=118.8lph of fuel required at that exact instant. At 15psi the 1g fuel pump flows 100.3lph if REWIRED, if unrewired 73.82, and that amount is actually less due to that rating being at 15psi, not 18psi. So please, inform me how you magically were/are able to flow enough through the stocker for 18psi? If we assume that the car in question is a 2g, then on stock wiring at 15psi the fuel pump will flow 99.68lph, and when rewired 131.23. So in all four of these scenarios the only pump that MIGHT be able to keep up with the demand of those 550's at even 15psi, would be the 2g pump, and it would be forced to be rewired. Stop bench racing and telling people that they "should" be able to do stuff if they cant. The answers are out there for you, and it doesnt take much to understand what is needed. Like I said, you can get the turbo, but rewire your FP right now, and keep the boost very low, as in stock low, plus port the turbine housing out. I dont agree with the upgrading the turbo before supporting mods theory, however with the turbo out of the way you can buy the injectors, FP, and regulator.

Just to further help ya along here, if you had 650's, and they were at 100%IDC, which I hope they wouldnt, youd have a fuel demand of 156lph. A 190lph when rewired will flow 162.8lph on 15psi, so assuming you were running around 20psi to even come close to that limit, a 190lph would just BARELY begin running out of breath right when those injectors maxed. So you technically could get away with a 190, but likely Id choose a 255lph HP, it flows 242.9lph under the same conditions, so itd be more than enough, but its your call on that one, if thats truly all you plan to ever run.

In your case I wouldnt go with a GM MAF, there is no benefit in your case, the 2g MAS doesnt even begin being overrun until roughly 50lb/min or so, you will be a good 20% under its limits, so it wont be being taxed hardly at all.

 

[sweet97]

I dont understand what makes this choice so hard. Just look at the figures in front of you. If you buy the fuel, you wont want to go with 550's, you'll want 650's at the least for that turbo, if you want a 50trim like the other person mentioned Id damn well hope youd go with larger injectors, I see 80% IDC on my Green and 880's, and I have very conservative fuel settings, so the 660's would be at about 110% IDC, on my daily pump gas settings. If you buy a Evo 16g, you will be more than easily able to outflow the stock injectors and pump, especially the pump. If you get a 255lph HP, which I'd hope you would you will overrun your stock FPR, simple as that. Your gas mileage as well as on/off throttle conditions will suffer, if you feel that the streetability loss there is worth not spending the extra money on a FPR and doing it right, so be it. You will NOT be able to use the stock FP, if you think that on your 1g at 18psi on that Evo 16g without even a rewire your FP is keeping up, you're dead wrong. 2g pumps flow about 30-40% more and even rewired my pump was barely able to keep up with my 16g flowing only 35lb/min, an Evo 16g is more than easily able to flow 38lb/min or more.

You say you run 90% IDC on your 550's at 18psi correct? Now lets start with some numbers here. ((90%*550*4)*60)/1000=118.8lph of fuel required at that exact instant. At 15psi the 1g fuel pump flows 100.3lph if REWIRED, if unrewired 73.82, and that amount is actually less due to that rating being at 15psi, not 18psi. So please, inform me how you magically were/are able to flow enough through the stocker for 18psi? If we assume that the car in question is a 2g, then on stock wiring at 15psi the fuel pump will flow 99.68lph, and when rewired 131.23. So in all four of these scenarios the only pump that MIGHT be able to keep up with the demand of those 550's at even 15psi, would be the 2g pump, and it would be forced to be rewired. Stop bench racing and telling people that they "should" be able to do stuff if they cant. The answers are out there for you, and it doesnt take much to understand what is needed. Like I said, you can get the turbo, but rewire your FP right now, and keep the boost very low, as in stock low, plus port the turbine housing out. I dont agree with the upgrading the turbo before supporting mods theory, however with the turbo out of the way you can buy the injectors, FP, and regulator.

Just to further help ya along here, if you had 650's, and they were at 100%IDC, which I hope they wouldnt, youd have a fuel demand of 156lph. A 190lph when rewired will flow 162.8lph on 15psi, so assuming you were running around 20psi to even come close to that limit, a 190lph would just BARELY begin running out of breath right when those injectors maxed. So you technically could get away with a 190, but likely Id choose a 255lph HP, it flows 242.9lph under the same conditions, so itd be more than enough, but its your call on that one, if thats truly all you plan to ever run.

In your case I wouldnt go with a GM MAF, there is no benefit in your case, the 2g MAS doesnt even begin being overrun until roughly 50lb/min or so, you will be a good 20% under its limits, so it wont be being taxed hardly at all.

I am the one who ran the EVO on stock FP, at least to my knowledge it was stock. With 550's I was able to run as rich as I wanted. I have a wideband A/F meter and I run a 10.5:a A/F. The motor did this with 550's and 18PSI-FACT. Can't explain it and did not know that it should not have happened that way! I have a 1G and leave 2g info to those owners. I used the stock sidemount IC also. The reason I like the GM MAF & Translator is not simply for flow but for the ability of a blow thru positioning of the MAF which is close to the intake giving the ECU the best readings as to how much air is entering the engine. As I said originally I am also able to run my air filter in the space the stock IC occupied.
I was offering what worked for me and what I would do as opinions were asked for. How many lbs. of air are you flowing to use those 880's to their potential? Man that's a lot of fuel! Oh by the way there was nothing magical, just blessed! Peace and happy modding! Mark

 

[16g-95gsx]

The other day I flowed 44.5lb/min on pump gas at 2000ft asl here, and the IDC is 80% with very rich settings like I said, so it could be leaned out slightly, and this is on pump gas, with race gas Id have it leaned slightly more, but also be flowing quite a bit more air, so the injectors are pretty perfectly matched on my setup. The only 2 pumps out there that seem to be able to keep up with 880's when maxed are the 255lph HP, and the Supra pump, so once again my fuel pump is very well matched.

From the factory the stock fueling is intended to give you around 9.6:1 AF on the peak fuel and timing maps on a 2g, and from my understanding the fueling maps are also similar on 1g's, just the timing maps are a little higher. So assuming that you were able to somehow perfectly correct the 550's global adjustment, which is what you would be doing with an Safc, to make them flow similar to 450's, meaning about a -18% correction across the board, minus any deadtime changes which would be needed which you wouldnt be able to do, but just assuming they were made to keep things simple. This means that you would as mentioned flow 9.5:1 or so by the topend, from 4500-6000rpms, and after 6000rpms it becomes just a hair richer by roughly 1% or so. So assuming everything being normal, thats the AF you would be running with no additional correction to the stock fueling maps. 10.5:1 is a good bit leaner than that, 10.5% leaner actually, so theres a good chance that on your particular fueling, you were actually losing fuel due to the fuel pump, NOT your Safc settings, see what I'm saying? Your correction factor on an Safc for those 550's Id imagine would be something similar to say -26% between those ranges (just spitting a figure out, dont quote me on that) to get the 10.5:1 AF assuming your injectors were exactly 550's which generally the true value varies just because of tolerances. Something else to think about, not sure how this applied to you, but if a 550cc injector is rated at 43.5psi (3bar) as most are, which matches 2g stock pressures, Id imagine it would run slightly less than 550 on a 1g that runs 37psi base pressure I believe, it wouldnt be a HUGE reduction, but the injector output should be lessened under the lower pressure. Where are your injector duty cycles coming from? My friend with an Evo 3 16g, with a stock airflow meter so the airflow readings are perfect, and reasonably leaned out fueling 10.5:1 or so, flowing 38lb/min generally, sees quite literally 100% IDC on his HRC 625's, which really flow like 550's roughly. Either way, the stock pump is not up to the task, the 2g one when rewired just barely makes the cut even at that low of boost, and any further airflow would just push it over the edge, where as the 1g pump flows 30-40% less under all conditions. Pumps are cheap, dont skimp out, my 255lph HP cost 90 shipped off ebay with the full install kit, and took 15 minutes at most to change out.

As for the GM MAF idea, it is quite a headache to get tuned so that it is perfectly calibrated to the stock airflow meter. At different airflow velocities the meter has different readings to that of the stock 2g meter, so there is an awkward fueling curve created by the unit, that honestly I dont see as being able to be tuned around on a regular setup without the use of a wideband. As for the readings being more accurate, I dont see how thats correct. The stock MAS was created with the the delay injector deadtime already compensated for, meaning the delay of when the injectors fire. The mass of the airflow has already been accounted for when its metered by the 2g MAS, the GM MAF isnt going to meter it any better. You have a wideband as well, so I dont quite see where any fluctuation in the metering would make any difference anyway even if it were there. I honestly feel that the "better" reading GM MAF is completely internet bench racing at its finest, I personally feel the 2g MAS is a much better metering device, and the only benefit I see with the GM MAF is that whenever I blow an IC pipe off I dont have to limp home. The GM MAF will read differently from unit to unit, or even how each unit is mounted due to airflow velocity changes, as well as angle/clocking of the MAF itself, it doesnt even come close to matching the 2g MAS' readings right from the box. This is why I say, if it's something that can be avoided, dont bother getting it. As for the colder air, I have a ram air setup running from my stock fog light location on the passenger side of my 97 front end, up to the stock UICP hole, using 3" dryer ducting. Whenever Id borrow my friends 2g MAS to try to calibrate my GM MAF, I would see temps within 3* of ambient, even without any form of heat shielding. It works extremely well, and theres no need to expose the filter element to the outside air.

Just so you guys know where my flow figures are coming from for fuel pumps, they are read directly from RRE's readings they took on various fuel pumps at various pressures and voltages, so I'm not simply making up these numbers.

 

[diambo4life]

There is no use for a bigger turbo if the supporting mods aren't there first, I say go with all of the supporting mods before upgrading the turbo.

Turbo should be the last thing to buy. This way, once you get all your supporting mods, you may even decide to go with a different/bigger turbo. You don't want to kick yourself later. I don't see how you guys buy bigger turbos and keep the boost "low" till you get the supporting mods. That's just ass backwards.

 

[RavenX]

The other day I flowed 44.5lb/min on pump gas at 2000ft asl here, and the IDC is 80% with very rich settings like I said, so it could be leaned out slightly, and this is on pump gas, with race gas Id have it leaned slightly more, but also be flowing quite a bit more air, so the injectors are pretty perfectly matched on my setup. The only 2 pumps out there that seem to be able to keep up with 880's when maxed are the 255lph HP, and the Supra pump, so once again my fuel pump is very well matched.

From the factory the stock fueling is intended to give you around 9.6:1 AF on the peak fuel and timing maps on a 2g, and from my understanding the fueling maps are also similar on 1g's, just the timing maps are a little higher. So assuming that you were able to somehow perfectly correct the 550's global adjustment, which is what you would be doing with an Safc, to make them flow similar to 450's, meaning about a -18% correction across the board, minus any deadtime changes which would be needed which you wouldnt be able to do, but just assuming they were made to keep things simple. This means that you would as mentioned flow 9.5:1 or so by the topend, from 4500-6000rpms, and after 6000rpms it becomes just a hair richer by roughly 1% or so. So assuming everything being normal, thats the AF you would be running with no additional correction to the stock fueling maps. 10.5:1 is a good bit leaner than that, 10.5% leaner actually, so theres a good chance that on your particular fueling, you were actually losing fuel due to the fuel pump, NOT your Safc settings, see what I'm saying? Your correction factor on an Safc for those 550's Id imagine would be something similar to say -26% between those ranges (just spitting a figure out, dont quote me on that) to get the 10.5:1 AF assuming your injectors were exactly 550's which generally the true value varies just because of tolerances. Something else to think about, not sure how this applied to you, but if a 550cc injector is rated at 43.5psi (3bar) as most are, which matches 2g stock pressures, Id imagine it would run slightly less than 550 on a 1g that runs 37psi base pressure I believe, it wouldnt be a HUGE reduction, but the injector output should be lessened under the lower pressure. Where are your injector duty cycles coming from? My friend with an Evo 3 16g, with a stock airflow meter so the airflow readings are perfect, and reasonably leaned out fueling 10.5:1 or so, flowing 38lb/min generally, sees quite literally 100% IDC on his HRC 625's, which really flow like 550's roughly. Either way, the stock pump is not up to the task, the 2g one when rewired just barely makes the cut even at that low of boost, and any further airflow would just push it over the edge, where as the 1g pump flows 30-40% less under all conditions. Pumps are cheap, dont skimp out, my 255lph HP cost 90 shipped off ebay with the full install kit, and took 15 minutes at most to change out.

As for the GM MAF idea, it is quite a headache to get tuned so that it is perfectly calibrated to the stock airflow meter. At different airflow velocities the meter has different readings to that of the stock 2g meter, so there is an awkward fueling curve created by the unit, that honestly I dont see as being able to be tuned around on a regular setup without the use of a wideband. As for the readings being more accurate, I dont see how thats correct. The stock MAS was created with the the delay injector deadtime already compensated for, meaning the delay of when the injectors fire. The mass of the airflow has already been accounted for when its metered by the 2g MAS, the GM MAF isnt going to meter it any better. You have a wideband as well, so I dont quite see where any fluctuation in the metering would make any difference anyway even if it were there. I honestly feel that the "better" reading GM MAF is completely internet bench racing at its finest, I personally feel the 2g MAS is a much better metering device, and the only benefit I see with the GM MAF is that whenever I blow an IC pipe off I dont have to limp home. The GM MAF will read differently from unit to unit, or even how each unit is mounted due to airflow velocity changes, as well as angle/clocking of the MAF itself, it doesnt even come close to matching the 2g MAS' readings right from the box. This is why I say, if it's something that can be avoided, dont bother getting it. As for the colder air, I have a ram air setup running from my stock fog light location on the passenger side of my 97 front end, up to the stock UICP hole, using 3" dryer ducting. Whenever Id borrow my friends 2g MAS to try to calibrate my GM MAF, I would see temps within 3* of ambient, even without any form of heat shielding. It works extremely well, and theres no need to expose the filter element to the outside air.

Just so you guys know where my flow figures are coming from for fuel pumps, they are read directly from RRE's readings they took on various fuel pumps at various pressures and voltages, so I'm not simply making up these numbers.

cliff notes

 

[16g-95gsx]

By buying the turbo, he'd have roughly 200 dollars or so extra income assuming he sold the T25 and 450's, this goes towards his injectors and pump. Please tell me how this logic is flawed? The Evo 16g is generally all the turbo most people ever want/need, you're talking high 300whp on a nice setup, thats generally good enough for most. If he chose his fueling mods correctly, he'd have headroom anyway. The rest all falls into place, I dont see where a huge change in supporting mods is needed if you were smart from the start? Clutch-same, Fuel pump-same, exhaust-same, IC-same, at the very worst he might need to upgrade his injectors, but that would solely depend on the next step in turbo IF he were to upgrade. Choose your goals from the start, and know what it takes to reach them, and there wont be any redoing of your setup. I dont condone (spelling?) buying a bigger turbo and running low boost until you get the fueling, however if he does in fact plan on instantly buying fuel, then buying the turbo and having 200 extra dollars or so in income will go a long way towards buying the injectors and pump that he'd need. The idea of buying the turbo before fuel in this case isnt about being over zealous and excited, but rather it would be the better financial choice as it would allow him to more quickly acquire the cash he needed to perform all the mods. If the fueling parts werent to come for a few months down the road however I would agree that I would get the fueling now and worry about the turbo later.

Sorry I type a good 80 words a min, and when I get to thinking it doesnt seem that long until I finish typing, sorry for the long wind.

 

[16g-95gsx]

I went ahead and crunched a few #'s for ya. Using a standard specific gravity of pump gas to be .76:

For a 1g fuel pump: For 15psi, and 14v
26.595 lb/min @ 9.5:1 AF
29.396 lb/min @ 10.5:1 AF
30.796 lb/min @ 11:1 AF

For a 2g fuel pump: For 15psi and 14v
34.798 lb/min @ 9.5:1
38.461 lb/min @ 10.5:1
40.293 lb/min @ 11:1

These figures I calculated out using the flow rates of the various pumps. Keep in mind these flow rates are based on 15psi, which means youd have to be flowing 15psi and achieving those kinds of airflow figures to correlate to them. So while 26-29lb/min might be a good idea of that airflow at 15psi on an Evo 3 16g, the higher 38-40 lb/min would only be achieved at airflow values of say 22psi on a good setup at near sea level conditions, meaning that the fuel pumps would in fact flow much less at those levels, and the pump would likely run out of steam in the lower 30's. 14b's flow roughly 29-30lb/min generally at best, so you can see that a 14b would be about the limit of a turbo that the 1g fuel pump could FULLY support, where as the 2g pump would be closer matched to a small 16g. This is of course assuming that you are at 14v, so any fluctuation there will skew the results, and as mentioned these figures only reflect pump flow rates at 15psi, any higher of boost, and you lower the pumps ability to supply fuel, as it must work against itself that much harder to achieve higher fuel pressures so you lose overall flow. Notice to get 14v, you have to rewire the pump, you dont want to see what these figures are on an unrewired pump .

 

[sweet97]

Not long winded as we all need to lern and we do that with info. I read my IDC with a scanmaster from fullthrottle.com. I use it for tuning also as I see 02 voltage and knock in real time and can switch to timing advance or any of a couple dozen pieces of data. I was still on whatever pump was in my tank with the 50 trim I am using up to 13 PSI which was all my Dejon street FMIC would allow. Went to a Spearco 2-221 and my boost went from the 13/14 I was getting to 18 PSI. The spearco is a high flow IC so that mst have been the reason for the jump on the same MBC seting. After a run through the gears my A/F went to a 12.XX:1 and I registered knock. I had bought the Walbro 255 last May and just installed it in January.
I would recommend injectors around 660cc's as they would be fine for an EVO and a 50 trim which would also cover an 18-20G. Great all around injector size IMHO.
Going to 660's will require some for of fuel control which adds to the cost so I see the decision as a toss up especially without an AFPR which is another expense.
once the Walbro was in. Injectors, pump and I will use the translator for cost sake woud run about $650. with a used MAF. I guess it all depends on when the originator of this thread will have cash to do the next step. mark

 

[goofynick6]

Chris,
PUT THE COFFEE DOWN! haha

Yes, know your goals before you start getting into things; no sense in upgrading everything 2 or 3 times just to save a little money as you go. Just save that little extra bit longer and plan ahead and you'll be much happier and spend less time and money in the end achieving your goals with the car.

Nick

 

[goofynick6]

660's aren't gonna do it for a 50 trim at 18psi I'd say, I have watched Chris on his dsmlink, and he showed 80% duty cycle at 22 psi on his 880's, and his base fuel pressure was a tad high from the return line being too small.

If you're afraid of 880's, then do the 720's, you'd hate to get it all setup and tuned with the 620's and then be maxed out.

 

[16g-95gsx]

Base pressure wont effect WOT fueling, once the fuel pressure reaches the threshhold where the base pressure is overcome, then the fueling acts as normal. An overrun base pressure will only effect fueling until that pressure can be overcome, so say my base pressure was 40psi instead of 35, like it should be under full vacuum roughly, this would mean that my fueling wouldnt become perfectly normal until about 8inhg, anything higher pressure than that and fueling would act as normal assuming a .5psi pressure change per inch of mercury. If that makes sense to ya. The problem with running injectors that large though nick, is the use of an Safc which has a maximum fuel change ability, and also deadtime values that cant be accurately reflected on larger injectors.

Since ive drank coffee, and just felt like doing it, I went ahead and calculated out a 255lph HP to put it into perspective.

255lph HP at 14v and 30psi (NOTICE, 30 psi, not 15psi, this is a HUGE difference)
58.550 lb/min @ 9.5:1 AF
64.713 lb/min @10.5:1 AF
67.794 lb/min @ 11:1 AF

This again is at 30psi, not a measily 15psi like the other ratings were done at.

255lph HP @15psi:

64.410 lb/min @ 9.5:1 AF
71.190 lb/min @10.5:1 AF
74.580 lb/min @11:1 AF

These figures are somewhat unrealistic as it would be damn impossible to achieve those kind of numbers out of only 15psi, however the 30psi figures are extremely realistic, and give a good idea of where youd likely find the limit of a 255lph HP 60lb/min is some seriously disgusting airflow, you're talking a car thats putting down over 500awhp at that point.

 

[GPTourer]

Go with the fuel mods first, take care of all those odds and ends people usually skimp on and get them out of the way so you never have to worry about them again. Get 660's and something to control them too. It won't be much fun to have a laggier turbo on a car where all the fun stops at ~14psi.

 

[Stapl3]

No way im spending 30 min to read all above. All I have to add to this thread is that you can get a WAY better turbo for just under 800 dollars than a 16g.

 

[IamCool]

go for the little stuff....boost controller, exhaust, intake, downpipe, bov, tinted windows(if your state allows it), then rim. Your car should look fine. Worry about speed later. You Got to look good first.

I think that if you go with supporting mods and tuning devices first, you will have less things that are breaking. For example, if you were to get a 16g right now, we all know that you will taking it out for a few pulls. Without the right supporting mods and tuning devices to tune your new turbo, you can break something and have pay to fix that instead of saving up for the supporting mod. The best way is to get a dsmlink or datalogger or aems before turbo and you'll be more happy. If you can tune your car to drive perfectly, you'll be happier with that than having a car that is driving too lean or rich or just not running 100%.

 

[16g-95gsx]

You're not going to find a much more streetable turbo than an Evo 16g, keep in mind this turbo is fully spooled by 3100, a 50trim wouldnt be spooled until the high 3s, and even then most people dont even get the full potential out of them. I hate how people seem to just make blanket statements "that wouldnt be good, dont do that" but cant give any data to back up their statements. I went ahead and even calculated out what you can and cant do on the fueling you have, and still people love to give the bench racing comments. Instead of giving generic comments people, look at what he is facing, and understand financially what it would take to get the setup if he started simply with fueling first. The 16g if run off of the stock wastegate actuator pressure will not break anything, I dont know where this idea of breaking things came from. Its not hard to create a well working setup, and it isnt necessarily bad to get the turbo before the fueling, if the fueling is coming quickly after the turbo, especially with the help of the sold stock components. As far as a laggier turbo, at 14psi the turbo would fully spool by 3k or possibly slightly less depending on his exhaust work. In addition the turbo would hold its own all the way until redline, unlike the T25 that stops long before that. The evo 16g will flow quite a bit more air at 14psi than the T25 ever will, id say he'd see at least 30lb/min or so even at that low of a boost setting. Thats a good 20% more than the T25 ever will see.