Movin' the battery..whos got pics of theirs?

[1gfromND]

Yeah I figured I would "unclutter" underneath the hood so I'm going to swap my battery to the rear of my car. But I would like to see what you guys did just to get a rough idea. Also what did u do with the wiring...like what did you use and where did you run it? Thanx

Sam

 

[djsven]

Hi,

If you want to run NDRA then you need a closed box. Moroso is the only plastic box that is approved by NDRA. There are also aluminum boxes. You can get the kit from summitracing.com Don't forget, if you move your battery to the back, you will need a kill off switch.
I hope this might help. If any other questions, please let me know.

Sven

 

[1fast97gsx]

eh that's only if you go to the track a lot ... I wouldn't worry about all that crap especially on a street car.

 

[TellschAWD]

http://home.comcast.net/~btellschow/index.htm

3rd picture from the bottom. It is the battery relocation kit from Taylor.

Brian

 

[1gfromND]

K well as for the box I'm thinking of making my own so that wont be a problem. But now I need to know how and where did you run that HUGE wire I mean it seems like it would be pretty tough to keep it tucked anywhere..also I'm wonderin if like some 4 gauge or less amp wire would work cause I can get that stuff pretty cheap plus it would look and flex a little better. Thanx for all the replies and pics keep em comin.
Sam

 

[btracer]

gimme a few days and i should have some pics of my setup for ya. i love the extra space

 

[Lancer14]

I ran my cable through a hole in the passenger side frame rail (at the back of the engine bay). from there I brought it up through a hole in the floor pan and then ran it back under the rear seat and under the hatch carpeting to the battery.
I'll try to remember to get some pics when I work on the car tomorrow afternoon.

Chris

 

[1fast97gsx]

I'm planning on doing this as well with an optima red top for next season. Anyone have pics of 2gs with relocated batteries? On the passenger side in the trunk there is a little opening where my stock battery fits nicely so I'm thinking about using that and putting a plate over it to isolate it. I just don't like having to have a kill switch since my car is known to run a lot at the track.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

I built a bracket for the box that sits where the spare tire was. Just a cross shape made out of two metal straps. I ran the power cable inside the car and went out the boot at the harness. If you need a kill switch, a simple switch that just cuts off the battery wont shut off the car, it will run off the alternator. Rather than mess with relays on the alternator and stuff like that, I just used the faming river push style switch (nhra requires push-off style switch anway, I dont think IHRA cares) that has an extra pair of contacts, both normally open and normally closed. I wired the fuel pump through the normally closed set. So when you hitthe switch it cuts off the battery, and cuts off the pump to kill the motor. I'll try to get some pics up on the site this week.

 

[1gfromND]

K well now the only real question is I'm wondering if some audio 4 gauge or less wire would work better than some super stiff and ugly battery wire. The only reason I ask is if I could get away with using some amp wire is it would be able to flex SSOO much easier so that would help in order to hide it better. Next it would look better having some shiny red wire instead of dull light pink and plus from what I've seen I can get the amp wire ALOT cheaper. I dont really see why it wouldn't work but just seeing what you guys think.
Sam

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Amp wire will certainly work, as long as its rated to carry the current you need for the length of wire you are using. 2ga is the smallest I would use though.

 

[TOTalon]

Box in trunk:

Distribution block in engine bay:

 

[NitrousBob]

Use the biggest wire you can get away with for a battery cable. I have done many relocations and I always got bit in the ass for using too small a cable on higher horsepower cars. I dont think it matters as much for turbos since cranking compression isnt as bad as a 12:1. but you want cable with the least amount of voltage drop.

 

[ballagsx]

i am also planing on doing a relocation, i have some 4ga laying around that is long enough and i dont feel like spending a lot of money to buy some 2 or 0 ga. do you think that would be ok

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Amp wire will certainly work, as long as its rated to carry the current you need for the length of wire you are using. 2ga is the smallest I would use though.

I agree with 95GSX... Here is a listing of power wire guage (AWG) sizes taken from an audio system standpoint.

Power & Ground Cable Specs
Cable Size
Wire Gauge vs Current Capacity in Amperage (amps)
1/0 350
2 225
4 150
8 100
10 60
12 40
14 25
16 15

It represents the total current (amps) each wire size is capable of handeling (without distance calculations).... As you can see, The 4 AWG wire maximum current handeling is only 150 amps. Given that, you must now factor in the distance... Longer wires + a small wire guage = more resistance. -Kinda' like drinking a slurpee from a coffe straw... It's useless, until it all melts! -Electronically, you will not end up getting the same amount of voltage/current at the end of the wire, as you would directly at the source.

Per the same audio system design site, here is another chart that can be used for calculating the distance (voltage/current drop) that any wire guages will be able to deliver. This chart is rated in watts (amount of output power from the amplifier). Select the distance (about 16' +/- if you decide to take the most direct path from the OE battery location, to your new location in the trunk). We will just use the 20' as a guide for the sake of discussion.

Recommended Cable Size by Power and Distance
Total RMS vs Power (watts) Distance
Watts 4 feet 8 feet 12 feet 16 feet 20 feet
100 10 gauge 10 gauge 8 gauge 8 gauge 4 gauge
200 10 gauge 8 gauge 8 gauge 4 gauge 4 gauge
400 8 gauge 8 gauge 4 gauge 4 gauge 4 gauge
600 8 gauge 4 gauge 4 gauge 4 gauge 4 gauge
800 4 gauge 4 gauge 4 gauge 2 gauge 2 gauge
1000 4 gauge 4 gauge 2 gauge 2 gauge 2 gauge
1400 4 gauge 2 gauge 2 gauge 2 gauge 2 gauge

"So what does watts have to do with battery relocation?" -you might ask... A LOT! Here is another chart of converting amp power (watts at RMP output) to actual current drain.

Current Draw by Power
Total RMS vs Power (watts) Current
Amps
100 16
200 32
400 64
600 96
800 128
1000 160
1200 172
1400 188

...So if you followed these charts correctly, you will see that if you are relocating the battery via 4 AWG wire, then (at a 20' distance) you will only be able to pull 96 amps of power (current) continuously through that small 4 AWG wire. That isn't a lot. With 2 AWG, the results are better, but IMO, 188 amps is still not enough, so I used 1/0 AWG for my battery relocation in my Talon with 1 250 amp inline ANL fuse as close to the battery as I could get it. The 1/0 AWG isn't cheap though. At $13.00 a foot, things were getting expensive REAL quick. Not including the connectors and distribution blocks and fuse holders, I ended up spending about $130 at the audio shop. As for the wire, I would recomment that you try and find a metal recycling yard that deals with wire, and get some used 1/0 off of an old ARC welder (I got mine in a yard in Redwood City, CA) for about $40 bux! I used the long, single piece of audio wire for the positive, while I used the recycled wire I got from the welder for the ground. I then used the ground wire as a chassis ground reinforcement and added grounding brackets about every 2-3' throughout the car.

As for the routing, I drilled 2 1 1/8" holes in the firewall, just next to the OE TCU location (for those MT guys that have no clue where I'm talking about, it's just to the right of the center "tranny"/driveline hump in the floorboard, and right below the OE heatercore. But if you are an MT DSM, then I'd just assume that you'd use the blank AT cable location in the firewall). BE CAREFULL!! -The firewall is made up of multiple layers! -I snuck my cordless drill into a local auto wrecking yard and started drilling holes through the firewall on a car in the yard. It helps to find a fallen DSM without a motor in it to see where the wires will come out into the engine bay. I did this until I found the best place to drill on my DSM. I chose to run the wires INSIDE the vehicle, as to avoid damage & moisture/consensation. Both wires were ran in from the engine bay and paralelled the center console until they got to the passenger seat location, I routed them next to the raised forward mounting point for the front seat bolts, and then down the side rear passenger's side kick pannel area. If you are still runnning the OE lap belts, then you will have to remove them to run the wire behind the assembly as these 1.0 AWG wires are like running 2 garden hoses in the car, and you don't want them to bind up against the belts. After that just follow the wheel well curve, up-and-over the rear shock mounting point and then to the trunk area. I chose the passenger's side "cut-out" that's in the farthers corner of the trunk, as the Optima Red Top fits perfectly in that spot.

The only thing that I found 4 AWG wire useful on my DSM was for upgrading motor grounds and rerunning the Alternator's OE wiring... I guess that dual 10 AWG wires was Mitsu's way of saving money from not having to run 6 AWG or larger wire. I re-ran the 4 AWG direct from the Alternator up to the OE fuse block's black 80 Amp fuse's mounting bolts, and 4 AWG from that to the aftermarket distribution block that I used for the 1/0 AWG to 4, 6, and 8 AWG wires that were OE.

...The result were suprizing!! -My car's onboard voltage sits at idle, without running any electronic accessories at 14.4 volts! -With EVERYTHING on (I mean everything from blower motor, A/C, lights, stereo system, amps) it will not go below 12.8 volts at idle. This might be from the battery being in a much less hostile environment, but I think that the wiring upgrades helped as well. With my DVOM, I was able to measure the voltage at the battery, and at the distribution blocks I installed in the engine bay... NO difference in voltage was measured (down to 1/100th of a volt).

Sorry for the book, hope it helps

 

[gritsak]

taylor battery kit..you can get them from summit

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[1gfromND]

Hey sweet guys I think I'm about all out of questions now I guess its just to find time to do it all. I hope it will be worth all the trouble

Sam

 

[ballagsx]

BoostedTalonTS did you ground the bat. in the back or did you run a cable back to the front of the car? if you grounded it then where to?

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

BoostedTalonTS did you ground the bat. in the back or did you run a cable back to the front of the car? if you grounded it then where to?

I actually grounded it on both ends, and all along the car's inner reinforced unibody structure.... Just about anywhere that I could find a good thick, multi-plied amount of metal. Since I was using the larger 1020CCA redtop, it comes with both top posts and GM style sidemount post on the battery. -I used the GM mounts for the 1/0 AWG wires with the help of some large 1/0 ring terminals, and two GM side post adapters (any audio shop will have these). The top mounts were utilized for two 4 AWG wires for the power & ground for my Amp rack, Capasitor, and Fuel Pump rewire. I also added a short 3' piece of 4 AWG that grounded the battery directly to the upper rear shock mounting bolt, after filing the paint away from the body (a wire wheel attached to a cordless drill works great). I then grounded the other end to the engine/tranny, directly to the tranny housing, in the OE location of the original 6 AWG battery ground cable. All other remaining OE engine ground points were then replaced with the remaining scraps of wire that I had laying around when I was done.

Some things to consider: A) You don't want to do what was done in that pic with the red AWG 1G, as using the OE spare tire hold down bracket is NOT a good ground! -That peice is held on by only 3 small spotwelds... Those spot welds will serve as the grounding connection for the entire car... You might as well run a smaller wire to a good ground location as the resistance of that small amount of contact area of the welds themselves will surely lead to grounding problems later on. B) You don't want to use seatbelt or seat mounting bolts as they are either filled with a non-conductive sticky goo that keeps the bolts sealed and/or they are open on the underside of the vehicle (allowing moisture to effect the electrical connection).

 

[ballagsx]

how much did you pay for the wire? 1/0 is like $6 per foot

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

... More like $12-13 per foot (full retail). I got mine for about $8/ft, as it was under an employee discount at the time.

 

[burldude]

K well now the only real question is I'm wondering if some audio 4 gauge or less wire would work better than some super stiff and ugly battery wire. The only reason I ask is if I could get away with using some amp wire is it would be able to flex SSOO much easier so that would help in order to hide it better. Next it would look better having some shiny red wire instead of dull light pink and plus from what I've seen I can get the amp wire ALOT cheaper. I dont really see why it wouldn't work but just seeing what you guys think.
Sam

Be careful . Lack of tough ,vibration resistant insulation often found with audio components is just asking for a short and fire . On heavy battery wire you will find good cut resistant insulation that can handle the abuse . Unless you want your car to burn to the ground . This is a fairly common problem. :thumbdown

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Be careful . Lack of tough ,vibration resistant insulation often found with audio components is just asking for a short and fire . On heavy battery wire you will find good cut resistant insulation that can handle the abuse . Unless you want your car to burn to the ground . This is a fairly common problem. :thumbdown

... That is why you NEED to install either an inline fuse or circuit breaker as close to the battery as possible. Doing so will prevent the car from burning to the ground. -You should do this regardless of what brand of wire that you decide to go with (and how thick it's insulation is).
In my experience, I've only used 8, 4, and 1/0 for all of my car audio & remote battery power requirements... The only time I've ever encountered a problem with the power primary was in the event of an accident when the wire was pinched in the crumpled up fender (or what was left of it anyway). -That customer was having my shop do the A/V system while he was waiting for his insurance adjuster to authorize the claim. -We ended up selling this guy a whole new A/V system, as he thought that the existing system was wiped out by the accident... Boy, those salesmen up front seen him comming!! We swapped all of the A/V system components out, put a new fuse in the inline fuse holder for the 4 AWG, had our body shop install and paint a new fender, and that was that. -Poor guy.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

Just to follow up with a pic: (And you thought that this thread was dead!)

You can see the top post mounts have 4 AWG wires (those are for the stereo system)... The 1/0 AWG wire connects via the GM style side posts.

 

[Batty200]

I reall liked your post however just a clarification here. Your first chart shows current capacities for wire. The second chart shows current by power demand for an amplifier. However an amplifier is only about 60% efficient at most so you calculated the currnet necessary for a car by about 50% too high. Since the battery is in rear with the amps the required guages are much larger than needed.


Later

Power & Ground Cable Specs
Cable Size
Wire Gauge vs Current Capacity in Amperage (amps)
1/0 350
2 225
4 150
8 100
10 60
12 40
14 25
16 15


Current Draw by Power
Total RMS Power (watts) vs Current for AMP vs actual loads at 12.5 volts
Amps
100 16 8 amps
200 32 16 amps
400 64 32 amps
600 96 48 amps
800 128 64 amps
1000 160 80 amps
1200 172 86 amps
1400 188 94 amps