dynoed my car today..

[larryd]

well I went up to the dyno today to see what a friend would do in his Type R and I figured while Im there i might as well do a base line.. so I did 5 runs.. only 3 of them registered and none of them gave me a torque reading.. stupid dyno.. didnt work out to bad though becuase I didnt pay for anything.. so I got an idea where I am for free .. of the 3 runs the best was 274whp.. this was at 20psi.. For some reason I cant get my boost controller to go any higher then 20psi right now.. (1.4 bar).. what it does is spike up to almost 2 bar and then it drops down really quick to 1.4 and holds steadily.. im sure it has something to do with my balance knob.. but I havent played around with it yet.. so is this good or bad or what?? 274whp untuned..

btw. I would post the dyno runs but the files were on a disk that decided to say it wasnt formatted when we got home.. go figure.. hopefully ill have the files sometme this week.. also I didnt have my logger with me and I didnt look at my EGTs.. the car was moving side to side on the dyno and making me nervous so I couldnt concentrate..

 

[swordfish]

Was that on pump gas? Good numbers anyway. You're a dynoing fool

jeff

 

[larryd]

yeah..93 octane.. so is that good?? I dont know anyone else who has dynoed the Big 28 to compare it to.. what does a 16g turn? Im really curious if this is a good # or not.. i was hoping for a little higher but I guess completely untuned isnt bad..

 

[Violater101]

Larry, I dyno'd mine before i added the following: ported exhaust mani,550's,dsm link, testpipe, and front mount at 15psi on pump and had 240 to the wheels. This was on a Mustang dyno which are known to be conservative. Somethign tells me that you car is putting down more than that...if you weren't getting any torque #'s, i wouldn't put much stock in it. I still like a dejon intake/and or injen intake and my turbo's still not ported :<. How well do you have it tuned with the AFC? Like I said earlier, I ran the 1/8 at 9.38 @79 on 18 lbs and pump gas w/2.4ish 60 ft..forget the exact #'s off hand. I think you could get alot more power out of it with the DSM Link. I think I am around 300'ish to the ground atm, but that is just speculation on what others have gained after adding the mod's i have post dyno run.

I would hope that all those mods plus boost turned up 3lbs would equate to atleast 60fwhp, I'll know for sure when I dyno in about a month.

Nonetheless, good #'s :>

 

[larryd]

well i dunno.. the hp #s looked to be right.. i figured thats about where Id end up for being untuned to the point where I just set the AFC at -25% across the band.. figure I could get closer to 300 if I could get the boost controller to hold more boost.. for some reason it was dropping off to 1.4 bar which is 20lbs.. I really wanted to get around 23-25psi and see what they woulda gotten me.. I dunno..

after I get cams Ill go back and get the car tuned on the dyno.. then we shall see where it comes out as.. I wish some other with this turbo would go and dyno.. I still dont know if this is a good # or if I should be disapointed.. i mean figure with a 15% drivertrain loss I now should have 322hp.. thats pretty impressive for me.. Does a big 16G turbo with the same mods yeild more power??? does anyone know where I can see dyno comparisons of different setups?

 

[crankbender]

if you can give us more info on things like your intake temps and advance you are running at wot it would help out alot. At 20psi you should probably be making more than 274 to the wheels if you have supporting mods.

I donno why but many people don't think intake temps are all that important. They don't have a gauge for them. Intake temps make all the diff in the world and you have to know what they are to know how the car is performing. Also did they have the fan blowing on your car? It is possible that your big FMIC head soaked if you didn't have alot of air moving across it. How long was the car running there?

Just my $.02

 

[Violater101]

Larry, don't go 25 PSI without upgrading to some ARP head studs. I think that your car should be putting down what you think it should be ..around 300-325 personally. Cam's arn't going to help as far as max HP goes all that much...you will just have a smoother powerband and not have so much HP drop off in 3rd gear.

I think something is messed up with that dyno personally since you weren't getting any torque #'s.

 

[IPT]

One thing check your coolant... IF it is getting low. YOu might be pushing coolant around the headgasket. I know of a couple of 2G guys that around the HP range you are at having this problem. Get head studs and then you won't have to worry about this...

 

[larryd]

see the problem here is I still have nothing to compare it to.. Until someone else actually goes and dyno's the Big28 @ 20psi.. And unfortuantely I dont have my timing, intake temperature or anything as I didnt have my logger with my as I wasnt planning on doing the dyno..

 

[NJGSX96]

Although it would be nice to have a car to compare yours to, that is not the way to tune. If you need a comparison, a weak one at that, using those nifty HP calculators, you are making 313 based on speed and I (with a T28/S60 - smaller than yours) am making 290 based on speed, and we have the same setup except I have the small greddy and the smaller (not by much) turbo. I would say you should be making 300 to the wheels. Based on previous experience, properly tuning a car can net 25-40HP, if not more. Since your settings are seat of the pant tuning, 300 seems like a pretty good number to shoot for. My AFC settings go no leaner than -19 I think. however, your car could be a freak and run super rich (I remember .98 O2 for your car) for some reason so tune according to your car.

When you go on that dyno, You should bring a pad write down everything you do, all of your staring settings, any changes, etc. You should have your logger hooked up. You have their wideband in so you can see the real O2 readings. Look at your EGT as do your pull. Log timing advance, intake temp, rpm, throttle position, O2 (optional), and anything else you feel will help in your tuning. using the AFC log feature, log your settings (Karman Hz, Throttle, RPM, whatever). Bring a friend if you don't think you can look at all these things alone. After your pull, check your logs and export them to a graph so they are easier to look at. Check the dyno sheet. the HP and TQ curves should be smooth. Compare your logs to the dyno, along with reviewing your AFC log. Also keep in mind what your EGTs looked like. Using all of these tools, make adjustments accordingly. DO your next pull after the adjustments and see what happens, making further adjustments as needed. Most likely, you will need more than 1 session to get it right. that or a long session of 5 or more pulls. It can get expensive, but is the only true way to tune your car.

As a base, your timing should start around 11-12 when you floor it and rise to 17-21 by 7000rpms. HP and TQ curves should be smooth. O2s on pump should be between .90-.94, depending on what your car seems to like and should be steady. Personally, mine like .91-.93, but all cars are different. Make sure your Karman Hz doesn't spike as that will hurt power.

Tune, tune and more tuning. DSMLink does rock but it is very expensive. For now, your best bet is to tune on the dyno or at the track.

 

[cmc]

Yea, with proper tuning you should see major improvment!!! I'd say at least 300. and on pump gas! w/ cams you might reach 335

 

[larryd]

well I called Forced Performance today and I talked to Loren about my results.. He said though they never dynoed their Big 28 the turbo itself is rated for around 350hp.. figure -15% drivetrain loss and your looking at 300whp.. so with tuning thats what I should shoot for..

NJGSX96.. thankyou for the very informative post.. Ill keep it in mind if I decide to do the tuning myself.. With this though Im really tempted to just take it somewhere and let them do it..

 

[Silent2g]

300 should be a piece of cake
get it tuned right
log the runs

get it fine tuned on pump gas, then throw some race gas at it

and yes, a big yes, ARP HEAD STUDS!!!!
then go higher.
i say 330 to the wheels would be easy. if not more, funnly tuned on 24 psi and race gas {110 octane or higher}

 

[larryd]

thatd be nice.. i mean im sure the car is making more power when its on race gas butthat much more?? well i guess with tuning.. I dunno.. I just wish I knew more about tuning myself

 

[Violater101]

Not sure how accurate the DSM Link HP calculator is, but I've seen mine rise to as much as 368HP ..i am told that is at the flywheel..not for sure though, forgot to ask. Anyhow, I'm not sure what is the hghest you should boost on this turbo with the proper mod's. I think Project GSX said he was boosting 21 on pump daily. I am usually around 19lbs depending on the weather outside. I would like to see how much I can make on pump gas since that's when I get most of my races anyhow. If your car was perfect, I don't think it would be nearly as fun because then you would have nothing to do :>

 

[SPEEDY]

Larryd your clutch may be slipping, especially if you are still using the stock clutch like me. You can lose a lot of power if the clutch is slipping. Also... Having everything ported helps to make more power, turbo, exh manifold, o2 housing etc. Great tuning is the main key though.

 

[crankbender]

First off i want to set one thing straight that many people seem to be confused on. Your turbo does not have a hp rating. They don't make hp, they flow air. The difference between turbos is how much air they can flow at a certain speed, pressure, and how fast they can turn efficiently. If you want to compare your turbo you have to see what pressure you are at and what temp. When the turbo starts to overspool they add more heat developed through mechanical loss to the intake air. Also they will max out at a certain flow rate.

If you can get a steady pressure at the intake and the same temp it doesn't matter what turbo you are using (except for exhaust back pressure). all of the turbos we use have similar back pressures at reasonable RPMs. Therefore your turbo will compare based on what temp the air at the intake is...get a temp gauge there, it will help you alot.

Don't let people say you have to buy their turbo based on how much hp it is rated for. Ask them for a flow at a certain pressure and what kind of temps it is going to be producing at that flow rate.

Ask they to look at an exhaust housing. How big is the "nozzle" that directs the air onto the wheel? that will dictate how fast you spool (along with moving mass) and what kind of back pressures you will have.

Remember the loss to having a turbo is that when your exhaust valves close you still have alot of used gas in the cylinder because the exhause is usually around twice the pressure of the intake air. that means if you are running 20psi when the exhause valves close you still have the air in the cyl at 40psi and that is used air.....this is why ball bearing turbos are nice they spin easier so require less back pressure.

This may not make alot of sense but basically what i am saying is that if you are looking at a car with a similar exhaust and you have the same engine internals, intake temps, and boost you will make the same hp (roughly) even if your turbos are slightly different. Don't let the turbo companies confuse you bigger turbos do NOT automatically make more hp at the same boost pressures.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

I see what you were saying about awd and 60' times in your other thread Banging head against the wall. I say this. At least you can dyno your car!!! I'm in AZ and there are no AWD dynos which means I have to drive to Cali just to Dyno my car.

Later,

 

[IPT]

Originally posted by MuttedTSiAWD
I'm in AZ and there are no AWD dynos which means I have to drive to Cali just to Dyno my car.

Later,

Get a VCE from TRE. $150 Then you can get great launchs at the track and be able to dyno the car without perment modification.

 

[larryd]

hmm i forgot about the fact that I can get everything ported as well.. I thought i was running out of go fast mods

 

[crankbender]

There is always something you can do. If you have done all the normal stuff and are still looking for stuff to do let me know I have some really really interesting things you can do if you want to do some custom work. Just start a thread with what you have done and what your current gauge settings are along a run so I know where to look for the restriction point.

Hell friend has a turbo drag car that at the end of the run after 8 seconds of heat soak is just reaching 32 degrees at the TB. It is not a street set up but there are similar things you can do to go along that path...And that car just freakin flies!!!

 

[larryd]

well im not talking about going all extreme here.. im not building a race car. I just want to do a few more minor power things.. the rest is just about enjoying the car

 

[Boosted97GS-T]

i put mine on the dyno last week, but i think the dyno must have a problem or something cause mine dynoed 185whp and 160lbs of torqe. i can keep up with my friends ls1 trans am. i would run it through the quarter but last time it wheel hopped to bad.

i'll be ordering my injectors and afc soon so i may need some tunning tips from you larryd

 

[larryd]

yeah something was seriously wrong with the dyno.. i made alot more hp then that with the T25

 

[Think U Can?]

Those are nice numbers.Hell in my SS it took 346 cid and an open exhaust to hit 342 to the wheels.
BTW I like your wheels too.Looks good with the color