acrylice enamel, use of sealers paint guide

[1Gina2G]

I was wondering if anyone could help me out or guide me in the direction of painting with acrylic enamel paint, there's alot less info then I expected online unfortunatley.

I guess my biggest question is the use of the sealers, when and how much do I use at the given times? this is the only thing i'm really wondering about, thanks in advance!

 

[bastarddsm]

Read the product information sheets.

 

[dewoof01]

Best advice is dont do it. At least use a 2k urethane single stage. How to Paint Your Own Car, Auto Body Discussion Forum and Videos | Learning how to paint your own car and general automotive restoration but that link will help you

 

[sccrbrandon4788]

Single stage paint is pretty simple. Just paint and a hardener. Usually its 3 parts to 1 part hardener. I used Acrylic Urethane though, little more durable, on my wife's bicycle.

I also used a 2k primer and it didn't react to it. You may want to prime/seal and then wetsand it smooth with 1000-2000 grit.

 

[91-GS]

It's simple, mix paint and hardener (usually there is something on the can that tells you the ratio), stir well, put in the gun, and spray. Do at least two medium-wet coats. Let the car sit for about five minutes between coats (so the paint can tack up) to reduce chance of paint running. Let it cure for about 12 hours before final sanding/buffing (if you decide to do that).

Single stage paint will look good for a while, although can never be as shiny as two-stage. Oh, and DO use hardener (catalyst), don't try to rust-o-leum the car since that kind of paint simply dries up (after the solvent evaporates) and does not harden chemically. Not only will that lead to an inferior looking paint job, but also make it very difficult to repaint next time (unless using same paint) since the paint would still be "soft" and all of it would have to be removed for new paint to adhere well. Personally i won't do single stage on cars, works fine for trailers and other equipment though.

 

[sccrbrandon4788]

I was wondering if anyone could help me out or guide me in the direction of painting with acrylic enamel paint, there's alot less info then I expected online unfortunatley.

I guess my biggest question is the use of the sealers, when and how much do I use at the given times? this is the only thing i'm really wondering about, thanks in advance!

Are you asking how much to mix at one time?

 

[AwD4g63TsI]

Single stage paint will look good for a while, although can never be as shiny as two-stage.

Can't say I agree with you on this. Single stage can look equally as good for as long as two stage. In fact many of the top custom painters in the industry, when painting black cars, will use only single stage black because you can't get the same depth and luster with a 2 stage black that you can get with a single stage black. That's a pretty well known fact among show painters. I've painted plenty of near 100 DOI cars with single stage and they keep their DOI. Not trying to change the way you paint, because that's whatever-just throwing out to there to people reading that single stage is not inferior paint. The fact that Maaco and other subpar painting businesses use single stage for the majority of their jobs(and they suck at doing that)I think is what has given single stage such a bad rep.

 

[1Gina2G]

1 Gal Gray DTM Epoxy Primer Surfacer Sealer Auto Paint | eBay

Can someone please checkout this link, and tell me if this sealer is what I need for painting with acrylic enamel.

I've read a basic layout, that you first get the gray primer on after the inital bodywork & sanding is done with. it then mentioned a sealer to better preserve the primer, is this nescessary?, if so is the stuff in the link the right stuff?

after the sealer is dry some small fine sanding would then be done if needed for runs ect. the mixing of the paint and hardener would then begin..does it sound like this is going in the right direction? I know there's usually directions that come with everything, but only so much is said before checkout and would be better to know for sure before buying...thanks everyone.

 

[sccrbrandon4788]

1 Gal Gray DTM Epoxy Primer Surfacer Sealer Auto Paint | eBay

Can someone please checkout this link, and tell me if this sealer is what I need for painting with acrylic enamel.

I've read a basic layout, that you first get the gray primer on after the inital bodywork & sanding is done with. it then mentioned a sealer to better preserve the primer, is this nescessary?, if so is the stuff in the link the right stuff?

after the sealer is dry some small fine sanding would then be done if needed for runs ect. the mixing of the paint and hardener would then begin..does it sound like this is going in the right direction? I know there's usually directions that come with everything, but only so much is said before checkout and would be better to know for sure before buying...thanks everyone.

Custom Shop - Epoxy Primer

Go here and get it from the actual company. Look at the technical data sheet for mixing and other instructions you'll need. It tells you how to mix, pot life, time between coats, and time before spraying color.
Sanding after your last coat of primer is necessary if you have runs or there is an "orange peel" texture to it, otherwise not necessary.
Look at the site and they have other paints and brands there too. Here is the TDS for AE paint that can give you a better idea about the painting with AE.
http://www.tcpglobal.com/restorationshop/docs/techsheet_ae.pdf

 

[AwD4g63TsI]

I have to ask...why are you so set on painting with acrylic instead of urethane?

The stuff in your link is a primer/sealer. Think of it this way-it's a primer AND/OR a sealer. Meaning you can use this simply as a primer. It will do the job of any good quality primer with the added benefit of sealing anything underneath from bleeding through later on(you will normally sand it for this purpose). But, it can also be used as a stand alone sealer for bleed through protection of body/old paint/old primer, etc. when you are doing smaller paint repair jobs(normally not sanded and the color coat would be sprayed over the sealer while it's not fully dry). If you had this in a your paint shop you wouldn't have to carry two different products to prime and to seal....this would fit the bill for doing either one of those jobs.

 

[91-GS]

AwD4g63TsI, what brand single-stage are you talking about? Maybe i just never seen a good one. After all, i have only been painting for a year.

 

[1Gina2G]

thanks alot guys you're really helping me out here

So it looks like this IS the right stuff (for being a sealer) and that it would be a good idea to go ahead and get it for painting with AE like I mentioned right?

Honestly this is going to be my very first paint job...for an entire car. I've seen AE paint jobs freshly done before and they turned out pretty nice looking considering the money invested, heard it's also a good choice for a begeners paint job from several sources. Not sure why this is, all I can think of is not messing with any clear coat with the glossy paint.

not using clearcoat may also save money for buying a gun for clearcoat, since you really need a gun for different paints and primers / clearcoat right?


thanks again

 

[sccrbrandon4788]

thanks alot guys you're really helping me out here

So it looks like this IS the right stuff (for being a sealer) and that it would be a good idea to go ahead and get it for painting with AE like I mentioned right?

Honestly this is going to be my very first paint job...for an entire car. I've seen AE paint jobs freshly done before and they turned out pretty nice looking considering the money invested, heard it's also a good choice for a begeners paint job from several sources. Not sure why this is, all I can think of is not messing with any clear coat with the glossy paint.

not using clearcoat may also save money for buying a gun for clearcoat, since you really need a gun for different paints and primers / clearcoat right?


thanks again

Here's some encouragement.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/appearance-interior-exterior/448217-freshly-painted-now-wheels.html

I painted mine last fall, but used a basecoat/clearcoat system. AE IS cheaper, and you can still get the bright color and shine. You many want to look at Acrylic Urethane if you can find it, it's supposed to be more durable and a newer form of single-stage paint. If you do get a run in the paint, you'll have to wait however long the TDS says before you can sand it out, sand the rest of the panel, and then you'll have to respray the panel.

What color are you doing?

 

[1Gina2G]

Here's some encouragement.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/appearance-interior-exterior/448217-freshly-painted-now-wheels.html

I painted mine last fall, but used a basecoat/clearcoat system. AE IS cheaper, and you can still get the bright color and shine. You many want to look at Acrylic Urethane if you can find it, it's supposed to be more durable and a newer form of single-stage paint. If you do get a run in the paint, you'll have to wait however long the TDS says before you can sand it out, sand the rest of the panel, and then you'll have to respray the panel.

What color are you doing?

thanks, the car in my DP isnt mine, but I have a silver talon that is soon to be blue, going to eventually get the inside and the engine bay as well but just the outside for now. The black top and spoilers are going to stay black but getting repainted as well.

also, with the kit I showed above, it can obviously be used as both a sealer and surface primer, but probably not both in the same kit right? so it would be good to get this kit, along with an additonal gallon of primer, and hardener for the primer as well right?

 

[sccrbrandon4788]

In the TDS for the Primer/sealer:
"MIXING RATIO:
- If used as a primer surfacer, mix and spray as follows: 2 parts of Part A - KEP
Epoxy Prime Base to 1 part of Part B - KEP 502 Hardener (by volume).
- If used as a sealer, reduce and apply as follows: 2 parts of Part A-KEP Epoxy
Prime Base to 1 part of Part B - KEP 502 Hardener to 1 part KR reducer (by
volume)."
You'll have to get a quart of reducer to make it a sealer. Sealer would only be used on bare metal to keep it from oxidizing and rusting. If you are just covering old paint, just get the kit and use it as a primer surfacer to hid the original color.

 

[AwD4g63TsI]

AwD4g63TsI, what brand single-stage are you talking about? Maybe i just never seen a good one. After all, i have only been painting for a year.

I've painted with a lot and never really had a bad experience. In Germany I used Akzo Nobel and Spies Hecker with great results. Here I've used DuPont, Sherwin Williams, IHI Autocolor and even some generic paint store brands. There are so many variables that affect the outcome of paint that your experience could have been due to something besides the paint like catalyst temp, ambient weather, etc. Painting without a booth in cold weather with a cold catalyst can screw up your finish if you wet/sand and/or buff it too soon. For example, if you shoot at 50 degrees ambient temp with a cold catalyst you will need to let the paint/clear cure for a good week or more. Buffing/wet sanding the orange peel out after letting it sit for 24 hours to cure in that cold of a temperature will only allow the orange peel to creep back because your finish is still curing. The coating is literally still shrinking little by little and in a week or two you'll see orange peel again. Not as bad of course because you've gotten rid of some already. But you'll be asking yourself why there's so much orange peel since you just took care of it....so you thought.

 

[91-GS]

Never heard of orange peel creeping up from under the paint, although have probably seen it happend. Just did not know what was causing it to come back. Thanks for explaining it.
Have also seen a bad case of orange peel where a guy used wrong primer (i believe it was a primer for single stage paint with basecoat-clearcoat over it). His whole Eclipse was rough as an orange and since it was black every time sune shined it looked even worse.

 

[1Gina2G]

In the TDS for the Primer/sealer:
"MIXING RATIO:
- If used as a primer surfacer, mix and spray as follows: 2 parts of Part A - KEP
Epoxy Prime Base to 1 part of Part B - KEP 502 Hardener (by volume).
- If used as a sealer, reduce and apply as follows: 2 parts of Part A-KEP Epoxy
Prime Base to 1 part of Part B - KEP 502 Hardener to 1 part KR reducer (by
volume)."
You'll have to get a quart of reducer to make it a sealer. Sealer would only be used on bare metal to keep it from oxidizing and rusting. If you are just covering old paint, just get the kit and use it as a primer surfacer to hid the original color.

So the sealer is not needed at all for this paint job? I thought the sealer is used after the self-etching primer that you would first spray by itself on the bare metal. is this not correct? regardless it's not needed if nothing is taken to bare metal? just wanting to clarify.

 

[AwD4g63TsI]

Yes, you're correct. However, with this product, if you are priming the entire car with it, will not need a sealer because it already has sealing properties to it. As stated by sccrbrandon, if you use it as a sealer alone you will need to get a reducer because using it as a sealer requires it to not be as thick....but never mind the sealer part of this discussion because it doesn't apply to what you're doing. If you are priming the whole car with this, I would not use any separate sealer over top of it since it has sealing properties in it already. Just spray your color over it.

 

[91-GS]

So the sealer is not needed at all for this paint job? I thought the sealer is used after the self-etching primer that you would first spray by itself on the bare metal. is this not correct? regardless it's not needed if nothing is taken to bare metal? just wanting to clarify.

I would still use some of that primer-sealer as sealer and rest as primer.

 

[GSLENK]

so to reiterate, what if I have used some spray can primer on some parts? Do I have to sand it all off to paint it and have it last?

 

[AwD4g63TsI]

Never heard of orange peel creeping up from under the paint, although have probably seen it happend. Just did not know what was causing it to come back. Thanks for explaining it.
Have also seen a bad case of orange peel where a guy used wrong primer (i believe it was a primer for single stage paint with basecoat-clearcoat over it). His whole Eclipse was rough as an orange and since it was black every time sune shined it looked even worse.

Never heard of a different primer for 1 or 2 stage. I did however when I was in school mistakenly use an industrial epoxy primer for a car. Huge mistake. Stuff clogs sandpaper like crazy and had a pretty rough finish so I went through a lot of it. I can imagine someone giving up on sanding a primer like that and just living with the crappy final paint finish

so to reiterate, what if I have used some spray can primer on some parts? Do I have to sand it all off to paint it and have it last?

Absolutely not. I use spray can primer for all kinds of small stuff because I really don't like cleaning my guns. I've used regular store bought primer for a LOT of things with no problems. It all comes down to the most important thing...prepping your part correctly.

 

[1Gina2G]

does this look like the correct kind of primer for AE?

SYNTHETIC ENAMEL AUTOMOTIVE FINISH - NON-SANDING GREY PRIMER

what shows up when i look for primer for AE

 

[AwD4g63TsI]

does this look like the correct kind of primer for AE?

SYNTHETIC ENAMEL AUTOMOTIVE FINISH - NON-SANDING GREY PRIMER

what shows up when i look for primer for AE

I'm not an expert on Acrylic because I just don't use it so I can't comment on this primer and it's compatibility. But, a non-sanding primer needs to be sprayed on perfectly or you color coat will not look great. Non-sanding doesn't mean you can't sand it, it just means you'll be going through sandpaper like crazy because it will clog and take much longer to sand. You can give it a whirl. But if this is your first painting project I would go with a sanding primer because you are bound to have a not so perfect primer surface.

 

[1Gina2G]

I'm not an expert on Acrylic because I just don't use it so I can't comment on this primer and it's compatibility. But, a non-sanding primer needs to be sprayed on perfectly or you color coat will not look great. Non-sanding doesn't mean you can't sand it, it just means you'll be going through sandpaper like crazy because it will clog and take much longer to sand. You can give it a whirl. But if this is your first painting project I would go with a sanding primer because you are bound to have a not so perfect primer surface.

I appreciate all the help, so I understand you don't use AE, but could you still see a sanding primer to turn out alright with AE then?

Also a question regarding the painting of the plastic bumpers - a friend recomended using an adhesion promoter such as 'bulldog' to help bond to the plastic? does anyone else recomend this as well? thanks again