97 RS-T really a $20,000 deal?

[iNdo]

Just had a coversation with this guy... if u read it you will notice it is VERY 1 sided. He seems to be VERY safety concious and he says to turbo my 420a "the right way" it will cost in the field of 20,000 dollars. If u have the time read the convo and feel free to express ur feelings and if he is right or not. As much as i dont want it to, this is starting to make me think twice about even keeping my car.

VOTBLINDUB: what model is urs?
Mr1337Krew: 97 RS
VOTBLINDUB: forget the word "turbo"
VOTBLINDUB: trust me
VOTBLINDUB: u will need about 20 thousand for a proper turbo
VOTBLINDUB: so it doesnt blow up
VOTBLINDUB: or nothing else breaks
VOTBLINDUB: its better to ride it as is
VOTBLINDUB: and save for a gst or a gsx
Mr1337Krew: 20,000....
Mr1337Krew: i dunno about that
VOTBLINDUB: <nods>
VOTBLINDUB: i do
Mr1337Krew: 2000 engin mods
VOTBLINDUB: rs is a bad turbo platform
VOTBLINDUB: so is the gs
Mr1337Krew: 3000 for turbo
Mr1337Krew: 5,000
VOTBLINDUB: no man
VOTBLINDUB: i already wrote a 2 page post about this
Mr1337Krew: link?
Mr1337Krew: ^^
VOTBLINDUB: but i'll give u the short version
VOTBLINDUB: i dont remember where it was
VOTBLINDUB: its like this
VOTBLINDUB: if u want to turbo your car
VOTBLINDUB: the turbo kit is about 5 thou, ones that are not shit-made
VOTBLINDUB: ones that actually perform well
VOTBLINDUB: thats just parts
VOTBLINDUB: include minor things, such as hoses
VOTBLINDUB: flanges
VOTBLINDUB: gaskets
VOTBLINDUB: bolts
VOTBLINDUB: lines
VOTBLINDUB: crap like that
VOTBLINDUB: it adds up to a few hundred
Mr1337Krew: so ur saying a hahn or star stage 2 kit wouldnt come with all that stuff?
VOTBLINDUB: doesnt matter
VOTBLINDUB: u still need shit after
VOTBLINDUB: now
VOTBLINDUB: u cant ust put a turbo kit on a RS and just drive
VOTBLINDUB: it's going to explode
VOTBLINDUB: u will need internals
VOTBLINDUB: crank, pistons, rods
VOTBLINDUB: all new bearings everywhere
VOTBLINDUB: seals
VOTBLINDUB: new head
VOTBLINDUB: with work done
VOTBLINDUB: a whole new air delivery system
VOTBLINDUB: intercooler
VOTBLINDUB: tubing
VOTBLINDUB: couplers, houses
VOTBLINDUB: clamps
VOTBLINDUB: BOV
VOTBLINDUB: wastegate
VOTBLINDUB: exhaust manifold
VOTBLINDUB: DP, hi flow cat
VOTBLINDUB: catback
VOTBLINDUB: muffler
VOTBLINDUB: but!
VOTBLINDUB: its not going to go without adequate fuel delivery
VOTBLINDUB: which means
VOTBLINDUB: rippin off the fuel tank
VOTBLINDUB: take out the sending unit
VOTBLINDUB: get a beter one
VOTBLINDUB: all new lines
VOTBLINDUB: all new fuel pumps and filter
VOTBLINDUB: all adjusted accordingly
VOTBLINDUB: also
VOTBLINDUB: you'll need gauges galore to monitor all that
VOTBLINDUB: from oil pressure, to boost/vac gauge
VOTBLINDUB: tach
VOTBLINDUB: egt
VOTBLINDUB: everything
VOTBLINDUB: fuel
VOTBLINDUB: as if its not expensive enough
VOTBLINDUB: you need more work
VOTBLINDUB: u cant stop now
VOTBLINDUB: cuz the car goes too fast
VOTBLINDUB: so
VOTBLINDUB: new brakes? sure!
VOTBLINDUB: 14 inch rotors work real nice
VOTBLINDUB: 6 pison calipers
VOTBLINDUB: pads
VOTBLINDUB: new braided lines
VOTBLINDUB: brake booster
VOTBLINDUB: master cylinders
VOTBLINDUB: all that
VOTBLINDUB: new brakes in the rear
VOTBLINDUB: all disc
VOTBLINDUB: all braded lines
VOTBLINDUB: new pads
VOTBLINDUB: calipers, rotors
VOTBLINDUB: everything
VOTBLINDUB: cant forget wheels to fit the brakes
VOTBLINDUB: at least 17's
VOTBLINDUB: BUT!
VOTBLINDUB: they have to be wide enough for tration
VOTBLINDUB: so wider rims cost more
VOTBLINDUB: but youre not a train, bro
VOTBLINDUB: u need tires
VOTBLINDUB: good tires are a lot
VOTBLINDUB: im rolling on decent ones
VOTBLINDUB: and theyre over 200 a piece
VOTBLINDUB: so for a turbo u'r a grand into tires alone
VOTBLINDUB: also
VOTBLINDUB: all new fluids
VOTBLINDUB: everywhere
VOTBLINDUB: good fluids cost good money
VOTBLINDUB: u also cant overheat the engine
VOTBLINDUB: it means a new radiator, new fans, hoses
VOTBLINDUB: wiring
VOTBLINDUB: damn near everything that connects to it
VOTBLINDUB: now, you think its done?
VOTBLINDUB: but its not!
VOTBLINDUB: sory
VOTBLINDUB: not yet, man
VOTBLINDUB: you cant have that car on a stock suspension!
VOTBLINDUB: you'll roll it and die
VOTBLINDUB: i dont think ur suicidal
VOTBLINDUB: so!
VOTBLINDUB: new suspension?
VOTBLINDUB: sure!
VOTBLINDUB: JIC makes wicked nice ones
VOTBLINDUB: that adds to a lot of money
VOTBLINDUB: but you cant just lower it with springs
VOTBLINDUB: no no!
VOTBLINDUB: all new shocks, bushings, springs
VOTBLINDUB: strut bars so it handles
VOTBLINDUB: sway bars
VOTBLINDUB: tie bars
VOTBLINDUB: front and rear
VOTBLINDUB: upper and lower,where applies
VOTBLINDUB: youre also going to snap your axles if u turbo the car
VOTBLINDUB: when the boost kicks in, u cant have that stress on ur axles
VOTBLINDUB: so! axle upgrades?
VOTBLINDUB: sure! lotsa money? hells yea!
VOTBLINDUB: but thats not all
VOTBLINDUB: ur stock tranny cant take it either
VOTBLINDUB: so
VOTBLINDUB: all new parts in there, not just the clutch and fly wheel
VOTBLINDUB: u'll strip every gear
VOTBLINDUB: also, youre going to need to put in a LSD
VOTBLINDUB: in the front
VOTBLINDUB: but!
VOTBLINDUB: u need to find out how to mount the plates
VOTBLINDUB: so it locks up during acceleration or deceleration
VOTBLINDUB: thats up to you
VOTBLINDUB: you cant have all that and forget safety
VOTBLINDUB: so!
VOTBLINDUB: new seats
VOTBLINDUB: 5pt harnesses
VOTBLINDUB: possibly a roll cage
VOTBLINDUB: if u cant handle the car and roll it anyways
VOTBLINDUB: now, add all that
VOTBLINDUB: include taxes, shipping
VOTBLINDUB: labor
VOTBLINDUB: tuning,
VOTBLINDUB: dyno time
VOTBLINDUB: which i might add is mad expensive
VOTBLINDUB: and you've got yourself about 20 thousand racked up in there
VOTBLINDUB: and you know whats really funny?
VOTBLINDUB: that was the short version<laughs>
VOTBLINDUB:
VOTBLINDUB: you think youre up to the task?
Mr1337Krew: dude
Mr1337Krew: i totally understand ur points and where u are comming from
Mr1337Krew: if i was sponsored by 10 multi-billionaire companies, had my own leather racing suit, went to the track every weekend, and had my picture on cocacola cans THEN I WOULD NEED all of that. Please, honestly, from your knowledge of a turbo'ed 420a. What would be the bare minimum to get by at 7 psi daily.
Mr1337Krew: T3/T4 Turbonetics Hybrid Turbo Charger
Vortech FMU (Fuel Pressure Riser)
Turbo Exhaust Manifold
2.75" Downpipe (connects at Catalytic Converter)
Chrome Piping with Beaded ends for solid connections
Oil Lines/Tees Adapters need for plumbing
Deltagate Wastegate Mark II
High pressure in-tank Fuel Pump
Electronic Fuel Componants
Star Performance Front Mount Intercooler System
Intercooler Chrome piping with beaded ends >/li>
SPI Boost Gauge
HKS STD BOV

Mr1337Krew: taht is what comes in the stage2 kit
Mr1337Krew: yes, obviously add to that the rest of the exaust
Mr1337Krew: as far as breaks and suspension
Mr1337Krew: im not circuit racing
VOTBLINDUB: 2.75 is not enough
Mr1337Krew: and im not a ####in idiot on the road
VOTBLINDUB: no no, u dont get it
VOTBLINDUB: suspension is a must
VOTBLINDUB: boost kicks in?
VOTBLINDUB: BAM! stress on the frame and axles
VOTBLINDUB: unless... there is no boost
VOTBLINDUB: otherwise its going to wear out the axles and they will snap
VOTBLINDUB: its really not pretty
VOTBLINDUB: plus
VOTBLINDUB: u said ur car is 130kmi
VOTBLINDUB: that means theres some wear and tear on it
VOTBLINDUB: everywhere
VOTBLINDUB: want it or not, smaller things heat up too much with turbos and break
VOTBLINDUB: turbos are notorious for a lot of heat
VOTBLINDUB: they melt things

*** this post is long enough, after this point he went on to tell me a story about a friend of his who completely melted his engin bay, and part of the interior dash of his 00 eclipse GT pushing less than 8 psi. ***

 

[green95hrcgs]

Sounds like the typical 4G63 guy. NO it doesnt cost $20,000 to do it right.

 

[green95hrcgs]

Oh I just read the rest of the conversation, because I could not stand the entire thing the first try.

What a CHOAD!!! Dont listen to him.

 

[EvuLFleA]

I thought it was kind of funny actually.

Watch out your car will EXPLODE.

 

[InfamousEclipse]

I'm 9k into mine without a rebuild and it doesnt run...

 

[DSMSimms]

That guys a TOOL, it definetly does not run up to that much to get it done right, the only way i can see it costing that much is if you dont do it right like the first five times

 

[Fez1085]

yeah, he seems like one of those 4g63 guys.. depending on how much you want to boost, like 5-7psi.. you wont need new internals.. a turbo kit and new internals will cost you like 7 grand MAX..

 

[nevermore]

ok no offense but that guys a complete moron.

Ever read the article on our 420a's running the stage 2 Hahns Kit? He ran an entire year with endless abuse... and it still kicked ass... it's as if those 4g63 guys are scared that a Chrysler engine will actually do well... You should be able to run a good 300hp or so without upgrading internals... and unless you have some crazy mustangs and corvettes and shit around town I wouldn't worry about any more then 300hp... Hell I am doing the Stage 3 kit, and it comes with new pistons and rods.. thats all you need.. and the kit. The guys on crack at most the kit will be about $10 000... look at it this way, he bought a turbo kit when he got his car. Because it obviously costs more for a Turboed Car. So now he wants to upgrade his? So now he has to buy all new parts and toss out his old ones. So in the long run, who saves money.... The 420a guys. I read an article on the 420a the tranny can take more torque then the 4g63 tranny for one, and second of all... the 420a tranny has a longer 1st and 5th gear. I know I can get well up 60kph or so in first gear. My buddy gets 50 and he has the 4g63. So who gives a shit what the guy thinks. He's a crack addict... Who needs all that crap for 275hp or so. You don't need new suspension, roll cage! WTF? racing seats and 5pt harness... I think a 4pt from Crappy Tire the ractive ones for $100 canadian is fine for me.

Oh well... forget him spend $6000 on a stage 2 kit and your laughing. It'll go much faster then a stock TSI or GSX

 

[97eclipseRS]

that guy is a moron. if the 420a was such a shitty engine and couldnt handle boost, then why are there people over at 2gnt that still have their stock internals and have been boosting for 20k + miles without any major problems?

 

[goalieman24]

Sounds like the typical 4G63 guy.

Actually, he has a 2gnt as well but he's talked to me before and he is not very mechanically inclined. Check out his gallery on here.... those little things stuck on his hood, told me they were hood scoops and helped air flow

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

he is kind of right. you cant just buy a turbo, manifold, IC and piping ext and just toss it on a n/t car and expect it to be what a car that came turbo is.
although there are many other problems to deal with when turboing a n/t engine, the most important thing is that n/t compression is far to high to support a turbo. try and run more then 10 psi without completly rebuilding the engine with lower compression pistons, ect to handle a turbo, and youy will blow it up in less time then i took you to make it turbo.
and IMO, doing it the tirhg way is building en engine with all forged internals so your set up is better then a regular turbo dsm with a stock motor.

but as for the rest of what he said, ignore it. a 00 eclipse is not a dsm, and isnt the slightest bit similar to a dsm in anyway, mechanicly or otherwise. if he did actually blow it up and melt the dash, they its cause he didnt take into account the fact that that car isnt set up to discipate the heat of a turbo, and prob didnt take any steps to reduce under hood temps. just slap a turbo on, and go speeding around for a while, and the added heat will melt things.

i got a buddy with a turbo avenger with a built, bored and stroked 420a, and he runs a good ammounf if thermal wraps under his hood, and has upgraded everything that needed to be upgrade. and i can tell you this, he has well over 10k invested into the engine and turbo set up, no counting things like exhaust, interior, wheels, ext.

 

[j0hnniz]

cough gs-t cough cough gs-x

 

[97eclipseRS]

he is kind of right. you cant just buy a turbo, manifold, IC and piping ext and just toss it on a n/t car and expect it to be what a car that came turbo is.
although there are many other problems to deal with when turboing a n/t engine, the most important thing is that n/t compression is far to high to support a turbo. try and run more then 10 psi without completly rebuilding the engine with lower compression pistons, ect to handle a turbo, and youy will blow it up in less time then i took you to make it turbo.
and IMO, doing it the tirhg way is building en engine with all forged internals so your set up is better then a regular turbo dsm with a stock motor.

but as for the rest of what he said, ignore it. a 00 eclipse is not a dsm, and isnt the slightest bit similar to a dsm in anyway, mechanicly or otherwise. if he did actually blow it up and melt the dash, they its cause he didnt take into account the fact that that car isnt set up to discipate the heat of a turbo, and prob didnt take any steps to reduce under hood temps. just slap a turbo on, and go speeding around for a while, and the added heat will melt things.

i got a buddy with a turbo avenger with a built, bored and stroked 420a, and he runs a good ammounf if thermal wraps under his hood, and has upgraded everything that needed to be upgrade. and i can tell you this, he has well over 10k invested into the engine and turbo set up, no counting things like exhaust, interior, wheels, ext.

the compression on a 2gnt is not too high. you can boost on a 2gnt that has 12.5 compression, it just takes a lot more tuning and you gotta pay more attention. the only reason people rebuild with low compression is because its a lot easier and less of a hassle

 

[Defiant]

Ah, the web. The things you can see.

 

[DSMJim]

Sounds like the typical 4G63 guy.

Hmm... I'll just leave that alone.


To me it sounds like he sorta knows what he is talking about however he is going way to far. Not having suspension will not put added stress on the frame (. ever heard of unibody?) and snap the axels. Thats BS. If you do a basic 7psi kit I highly doubt your going to run into problems. You can put 7psi to just about any engine without any ill effects.

 

[green95hrcgs]

Hmm... I'll just leave that alone.


To me it sounds like he sorta knows what he is talking about however he is going way to far. Not having suspension will not put added stress on the frame (. ever heard of unibody?) and snap the axels. Thats BS. If you do a basic 7psi kit I highly doubt your going to run into problems. You can put 7psi to just about any engine without any ill effects.

You know what I mean. There ARE a lot of 4G63 guys out there that think that they have "rule the world" sorta mentality when it comes to their engines. Judging by your response, I think that you are one of the cool open-minded ones.

Yeah it takes a lot of work. I own a turbo car by doing it the "hard way", but its still worth it, and a little more unique. A LOT of what that guy said was complete B.S.

 

[Fez1085]

You know what I mean. There ARE a lot of 4G63 guys out there that think that they have "rule the world" sorta mentality when it comes to their engines. Judging by your response, I think that you are one of the cool open-minded ones.

Yeah it takes a lot of work. I own a turbo car by doing it the "hard way", but its still worth it, and a little more unique. A LOT of what that guy said was complete B.S.

how much would you estimate you've put into your car for that turbo? 20k is outlandishly high.. i would approximate 10grand at most

 

[green95hrcgs]

Lets just say that the motor setupo alone was less than half of that $20,000 quote.

 

[conceptillusion]

We sell basic turbo kits for $1899 complete bolt on the guy is a fukin moron tryin to convince you to spend over 20K