Cam Positioning Sensor Question

[poonman]

I have a 95 N/A and my question is, Would my Camshaft Positioning Sensor cause my car to not get spark and start.

 

[poonman]

Would My Cam Positioning Sensor Cause My Car To Not Get Spark, I have tried searching the forums but all i find is problems with a Turbo or SFAC installed, I dont have either of those.

 

[boostforfun]

I am sure that the CAS controls everthing in the timing sequence. Fuel, spark. It is what tells the ECU where the motor is at in its stroke.

So, yes.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I have a 95 N/A and my question is, Would my Camshaft Positioning Sensor cause my car to not get spark and start.

If the sensor were faulty or disconnected it would delay the engine starting. In some cases ten or more seconds of cranking are necessary to start a car without a camshaft positon sensor.

 

[akira235]

definitely, as said above, the cas tells the ecu the location of the cams and vicariously the position of the pistons in stroke so the ecu can determine whether to spray or spark.

 

[GreenDemon95]

A 95 420a can run without a CAS, Unplug it then crank it over. It will take 5-7 sec but it should crank over as long as your crank sensors plugged in. I ran my 420a without a cam angle sensor plugged in.(seal leaked cause the car to sputter too lazy to reseal it Might want to check your crank sensor though It won't get spark without that. 95s are known for cracking.(plastic housing) 97s and up are metal.

 

[GreenDemon95]

If that doesn't fix your issue. You might want to look at your ignition pigtail.(check and see if the wires connecting in the back of the pigtail are loose.See if the pigtail is getting a good connection into the coil. Another reason why Chrysler changed the pigtails in 96.

 

[poonman]

Well I have pulled off the CAS and disconected it in many combo's but still have no spark. I have also tested the resistance between the CAS wires to the ECU and The Coil Wires to the ECU and I still have no resistance so they are making good solid connections.

 

[GreenDemon95]

check your crank sensor. See if the pigtail feels loose.(another 95 error) If their were any cracks in the sensor it would start but run like crap. If this is not the case you might want to take your spark plugs out and check to see if your injectors are shooting fuel. check each of your spark plugs while theyre out. See if theirs spark coming out each one.

 

[poonman]

that is a good idea because it rained today and if that stupid crank sensor is getting wet from a bad factory harness It would probly make my car not fire, and i dont hear my injectors fire but i have not acually tested them yet, have just been focused on no spark.

 

[GreenDemon95]

try pushing the wire in and cranking it. If you don't have your cruise control in you should be able to get to it without jacking it up.

 

[poonman]

Im wondering if just for future sake if I should just pull out the Crank sensor and re wire it with some heat shrink, cause my card did this crap one time before and i ended up spending 200 bucs on a new ECU and the car started up no problem but that was also after sitting a week with no rain. the first time it did this crap was after it rained and i changed the ECU it rained today and it did it again , so now im kinda pissed off because It might not of been the ECU the first time. errrrr and the ONLY sensors i have not changed are the Knock, Crank and Cam Thats IT.

 

[GreenDemon95]

Get a newer style crank position sensor and splice it in. You have a pick and pull junk yard around there right? You can get them off older sebrings, avengers or 420a talons/eclipse. make sure the sensor is metal with the different clipin style pigtail. You should never have any problems with the CPS after that.(If this is the cause of your problem) Putting electric tape inbetween the sensor and connector will temp fix the problem till you put the new one in. Should only cost you ten dollars at the most. I picked out a bunch of connectors from cash and carry for pennies.

 

[poonman]

thats what ill do then in the mourning, I have to get a EGR anyways, so Ill go ahead and Pull a few Crank and Cam sensors while I'm there. and I'll Look for the metal ones and cut the wires up high under the Intake Mani to splice them in. There is a 98 rs there that I pulled my cam from sunday so im sure it will have the newer sensors.

 

[GreenDemon95]

That will have it. Let me know how it works out. You tried pushing the pigtail in and seeing if it'll crank? Explain alittle bit about what happened before it stopped working.

 

[poonman]

That will have it. Let me know how it works out. You tried pushing the pigtail in and seeing if it'll crank? Explain alittle bit about what happened before it stopped working.

the car is at my dads so i cant check tonight, but basicly i did a head job this weekend and the car was running so good i had to look at the tech to see if it was still running, mind you it has been storming here ALL day bad rain. I stop at a few places turn car off and on everything was fine and then I stoped by the dollar store went out to my car started it it started and ran for 1/4 of a second just fired up hit about 2 grand and conked out, after that it wouldnt start. i listened for the fuel pump to prime after a few mins of sitting and it never did so at first i was like ok probly a fuse, i have free towing so i just had it towed, checked all the fuses and they were all good, i then went looking at my ASD and Fuel Pump relay, at first none were working so i bypassed them and got fuel but no spark. I unplugged the ECU Harness from the ECU checked for water and such and it was clean, plugged it back in and now my fuel pump primes like it should but still no spark and it sounds like the ASD relay comes on and shuts right off but like i said i did bypass it and still no spark, so the only thing I could think was to jump on here, cause i have gas and compression, ecu seems to check out fine no additional codes over what i always have . so im stumped... but the first time it did this a year ago it was raning so i though water but I was also driving 70 MPH ojn a bridge when my car shut off thats what got me thinking of the CAS or Crank instead of ECU. thing is the first time it did this a year ago these were the SAME symptoms, and now that i changed my ECU and a year later it happends again make me think my ECU was fine then and i threw it away

 

[GreenDemon95]

Is your wiring harness to your ECU butchered any? Hit me up when you've tried these possibilities.

 

[poonman]

ok so start going at it this morning, i go get a Crank Sensor, EGR and EGR controller and a ignition Capacitor, only thing i did not get was the Cam sensor because they didnt have any. I get back home, install everything and still nothing, It will not start. I pull the plug and i have not even a single SMELL of gas but I know for a fact the my Fuel Pump is priming and pushing fuel into the rail, my injectors are not firing along with my plugs, I also checked compression and im running 170 psi and i also check all plugs and wires, no spark from any of them and no fuel from any injectors.

 

[rush2252]

check your timing.. remember the PM i sent you? Okay i forgot to mention the timing was 180 out.. i still had good compression on all 4 cylinders but it wouldnt fire. I know you said it was running for a few seconds but it could have jumped time. You said you did head work to this thing. I can do just about anythign to a 420A w my eyes closed. Drop the pass motor mount and depending if its auto or manual remove the 3 bolts from the tranny mount. Put a floor jack w a piece of wood between jack and oil pan as not to damage pan. Remove PS pump and all three belts then slowly let the motor down. Remove harmonic balancer w special tool you can rent from AZ and then remove timing cover. There is an arrow on the crank pulley that corresponds w a mark on the block. Make sure your exact the 420a will run if its one tooth off ( it wont have much power) but more than one tooth and USUALLY the crank sensor wont send a signal. Im still not sure how this is the case because the cam sensor doesnt have to be plugged into to run. Make sure your timing marks on the cams line up and make sure you have no more than a 1/4 in of deflection on the timing belt. I would bet my paycheck that this is a timing issue as youve replaced the other components in the ignition system. Sometimes when loading those stupid auto tensioners on the timing belt they dont release all the way of maybe you forgot to pull the pin out?? Ive done that once and it jumped time luckily no valves bent. good luck

 

[poonman]

The timing is perfect, when I did the head job I made sure to use a white out pen and marked different spots on the belt to the cams and crank, and I also checked because I didn't put my timing cover all the way back on so I can see all my marks.

 

[GreenDemon95]

You said this happened before? To fix it you put another computer in, fired right up?

 

[rush2252]

If you have a scan tool that reads datastream hook it up and while cranking see if you get a reading from the tach on the scantool not on the dash. If your getting a tach reading on the scantool then the crank angle sensor is reading. If not then its bad. Also when you turn on the ignition your ECU does a self check the CEL/MIL comes on for 30seconds or so and then shuts off. If it does this then the ECU shouldnt be the culprit. And I know you said you marked everything with a paint pen but believe it or not so did the guys who installed the water pump that owned the car before me did the same. Check the factory timing marks if you can. Or pull out number one plug and used a long rod to stick down in the cylinder and turn over the motor by hand until it reaches TDC then check your marks on your cam. If that doesnt work PM me and ill throw out some more ideas. One way or another were gonna get this running!

 

[poonman]

Ok everyone my car is now FIXED, wooooohooooooo. Green was right about the crappy wire connection, only it wasn't my crank sensor It was my speed sensor. The way I fixed it was, I have alldata so I pulled up the testing process for the cam and crank sensor. Alldata tells me that I should be getting 8.4-9 volts into Pin 1 on the with key on, well i was getting 0.05. So that that told me that it sounds like something is back feeding my sensors. I disconected the ECU harness from the ECU and pin 1 went to 9 volts. Bam I have found the problem, something is sending 9 volts backwards into my ECU and the ECU is sending 9 volts out the other way. I trace the yellow wires for pin 1 under my ecu/air box to a Jumper Junction I find the yellow wire that is receiving 9 volts and trace it up to the back of my intake manifold, so I have my Dad watch the multimeter that Is still connected to the Cam sensor as I unclick one plug at a time until the DMM doesnt show 9 volts. I get to my speed sensor, unplug it and bam volts from cam sensor goes down to 4 and is speratic. I then pull plug up to top of engine to inspect. It was loaded with rust, corrosion and was seperating in like 3 parts. So my dad and I get the 9 volts to finally go away, I plug back in my ECU, turn the key on and bam, I get the RIGHT 9 volts this time strait from the ECU, Turn the key again and It fired right up.

 

[Locke]

That is an interesting problem. I'm glad you got it figured out, and glad you posted what and how. It will be helpful to others.

 

[poonman]

That is an interesting problem. I'm glad you got it figured out, and glad you posted what and how. It will be helpful to others.

I try my best to help man.