MLS Permatorque Leaking

[97t4mitsu]

ever since i built my motor i've had a terrbile leak coming from the back of the motor, and i'm losing TONS of oil, there are probably several quarts in my driveway. at first it looked like it was coming from my oil filter adapter, but it didn't make sense why it was ALL over the back end of my block (next to the firewall). so i took a closer look, and it appears to be coming from my head gasket, which is a MLS Permatorque, because the oil is all below it, and there isn't any above it.

so my question is, does this particular gasket have to be torqued down more? could i try maybe a few more ft/lbs, like maybe 5 or something? or was it put together wrong up there? cause being brand new, i don't see how this could be happening.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

What type of headbolts/studs did you use? ARP? OEM TTY? New? Used? What were they torqued to?

 

[Focker420]

Did you use any high tack sealant?(comes in a spray or paste)

It does wonders and can be used on pretty much any HG. And i have never had a come back yet.

Also what torque did you use before?

 

[dr1665]

Did you use any high tack sealant?(comes in a spray or paste)

It does wonders and can be used on pretty much any HG. And i have never had a come back yet.

Also what torque did you use before?

I'd be careful about using anything other than copper spray-a-gasket, but it is important to know if this guy tampered with the gasket in any way.

 

[Focker420]

I have had nothing but success with using the high tack gasket (copper spray-a-gasket). With mls HG it is critical, I have done both ways with the mls HG and with none, Had a slight headgasket leak without. Mined you i was using stock new head bolts. I'm sure u would have no problems if u upgraded your head bolts to arp, and just went with a nice mls headgasket.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

This is why I didn't use copper gasket maker on my MLS... you can use the information to make your own decision in the future.

 

[Talon ESI-T]

The copper spray for MLS gaskets is not a sealant, its to reduce poor heat transfer between 2 metal surfaces. If you do not use the spray, the gasket WILL NOT be prone to leaking.

The leakign gasket described above could be due to a few reasons as Paul was leading up to. If the factory bolts were stretched or not torqued properly the gasket can leak. If your turbo and you boosted high PSI amounts, you may have lifted the head and stretched the bolts.

Terry

 

[bullettdsm]

This is why I didn't use copper gasket maker on my MLS... you can use the information to make your own decision in the future.

Agreed with emphasis.

I suspect head bolt situation.

MB

 

[97t4mitsu]

i believe he used the stock head bolts, and stock torque specs as specified in the service manual. i tried to find some arp headbolts, but i couldn't seem to find any the for 420A. it has been leaking ever since we fired it up or the first time, still on jackstands, still in my garage, so that rules out the head bolt situation.

i want to get this done the right way this time, and i'll probably be doing it myself. but it needs to be fixed asap, i'm really sick of all the oil spots and buying a quart of oil every week. so i'll probably go with the copper spray-a-gasket and another MLS, if i read all of that right

i'm planning to run about 25 psi, is there a better gasket out there for my application? i thought this HG was the best for high boost.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Did he re-use the stock headbolts, or use new ones?

 

[97t4mitsu]

i'm pretty damn sure he used new ones, unless he's a complete idiot, cause he knew what i was building this motor for. would it be possible to just loosen them up and put some new ones just to see if it works? or would that just 'F' up my head gasket?

 

[Risstanomak]

I just finished the exact same project you're working on. I had coolant leakage due to underestimating the need for the surfaces to be perfect and the bolts needing to be new. 3 vital things that need to be followed are: prefectly flat block and head, perfectly shiny "white glove" clean mating surfaces and new bolts. If these are followed then I see no reason for leakage.
My block seemed clean at first when I used gasket remover then brake cleaner and no more dirtiness would come off, but it wasn't shiny. So I got a mild abrasive dremel sponge wheel and ended up removing what I assume was cooked on carbon. I didn't remove any metal and got a perfectly clean surface.
You might be able to just install new bolts but IMO I would think that any oil that leaked through would prevent a new seal.

 

[bullettdsm]

i believe he used the stock head bolts, and stock torque specs as specified in the service manual. i tried to find some arp headbolts, but i couldn't seem to find any the for 420A. it has been leaking ever since we fired it up or the first time, still on jackstands, still in my garage, so that rules out the head bolt situation.

i want to get this done the right way this time, and i'll probably be doing it myself. but it needs to be fixed asap, i'm really sick of all the oil spots and buying a quart of oil every week. so i'll probably go with the copper spray-a-gasket and another MLS, if i read all of that right

i'm planning to run about 25 psi, is there a better gasket out there for my application? i thought this HG was the best for high boost.

I'm just a little confused between the he and I terminology (pronouns ). Let me see if my understanding is correct. You had your engine put together by a shop/buddy, yes? Under that thought process, a few questions; was the head checked/decked? Was the block checked/decked? Need to be sure that "he" didn't reuse the head bolts.

As for using the stockers. There is nothing wrong with using new stockers. I used them on my rebuild of 10.9 comp specifically to show that it would be no problem (8k on current rebuild. Heavy race). THAT being said you are very close to the point that I would recommend using the ARP's. (Disclaimer here of ONLY personal experience on 4g63 turbo but in this case I believe it is a comparable situation) If I'm going 25lbs or more boost, I would recommend the ARPs. I have personally seen a car on stock head bolts run 24 lbs with a big 16g (please no arguments on the merits of over 22 on a b16g ), but I have seen a lot more failures than not (I tried it personally. HG went). I would suggest a search of the 420a turbo guys for verification.

Just a quick search found these on Howell's site (I'm not recommending Howell, just an example);

http://www.howellautomotive.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=680

I'm sure that slowboy etc. will also carry them.

IMO, the MLS is fine for your application.

MB

Self edit: Keep in mind that it could also be something goofy, like no alignment dowels installed or maybe something got caught up in the HG

 

[TheCykotik1]

well the only way oil would come out of your head gasket is if you had TERRIBLE rings. did you look for holes in the block?? that would be the worst blow by i have ever heard of. check the valve cover gasket bro.

 

[numlock666]

also read somewhere that one of the head bolt holes in the 420a's werent drilled and tapped deep enough and the bolt bottoms out and give you the correct torque readings when in reality it isnt.

 

[link16]

also read somewhere that one of the head bolt holes in the 420a's werent drilled and tapped deep enough and the bolt bottoms out and give you the correct torque readings when in reality it isnt.

This is an old post, I'm not sure anyone really reads it anymore.