H1c-E85-27psi only 341hp

[bradikus7]

Something's definitely wrong- airflow never goes about 40.3 lb/min which is WAY off for 27psi from that turbo. Timing is a disaster- double-check base timing and start from scratch with the timing zeroed out like everyone's saying. You'll probably make more power doing that alone.

Now I'm a tuning novice without a doubt- but is there any reason you have global set for +/- 950cc injectors when you're actually using 1200's?

E85? Isn't the H1C in the bolton housing pretty much the same as an Hx35?

 

[snowborder714]

1. Why are your OpenLoopThreadholds up that far?
2. Why are you using both sliders and DA tables for fuel? Please pick one (and I'd recommend DA tables). They are the better route.
3. Again, zero out your timing sliders and use the DA tables for adjustments.
4. Your airflow is not tuned at all. Look at the pull area of your log and just look at AFRatioEst and wideband readings. Notice how far they're off (reference WBFactor value for quick calculation of this). They should be the same value.


Recommendations:
1. Reset OpenLoopThresholds (unless you have a reason to have them up there)
2. Zero out fuel and timing sliders
3. Load Evo 8 mod1 fuel and timing DA tables.
evo8v3settings [ECMTuning - wiki]
4. Verify your idle tune is on.
http://www.ecmtuning.com/demos/fueltrim.html
5. After verifying that, go do cruise tuning. Cruise at a few different speeds you'd normally be at and see how much that Hz airflow slider needs adjusted.
6. Go do a WOT pull from 2k to redline and evaluate airflow using WBFactor.



Jus, the injector settings are there because of running E85. You scale the global down to accommodate for using more fuel. See this page for more info or play around with the calculators I made to see how it is affected.

 

[JusMX141]

Jus, the injector settings are there because of running E85. You scale the global down to accommodate for using more fuel. See this page for more info or play around with the calculators I made to see how it is affected.

Got it- makes perfect sense, B.

 

[nfernotalon]

Just checked mechanical timing and it's dead on. Base timing was at about 8 btdc. Why does the car cut out with the timing sliders zeroed out?

 

[snowborder714]

Have you verified that the harmonic damper hasn't started to spin on itself or separate?
Have you verified you're boost leak free?
Have you verified base fuel pressure?

 

[dooblea]

Its been awhile since ive been in town, but go see the owner of bittersweet liquor on 10th and 35th! He has helped me out on numerous occasions.

 

[nfernotalon]

1. Why are your OpenLoopThreadholds up that far?
2. Why are you using both sliders and DA tables for fuel? Please pick one (and I'd recommend DA tables). They are the better route.
3. Again, zero out your timing sliders and use the DA tables for adjustments.
4. Your airflow is not tuned at all. Look at the pull area of your log and just look at AFRatioEst and wideband readings. Notice how far they're off (reference WBFactor value for quick calculation of this). They should be the same value.


Recommendations:
1. Reset OpenLoopThresholds (unless you have a reason to have them up there)
2. Zero out fuel and timing sliders
3. Load Evo 8 mod1 fuel and timing DA tables.
evo8v3settings [ECMTuning - wiki]
4. Verify your idle tune is on.
http://www.ecmtuning.com/demos/fueltrim.html
5. After verifying that, go do cruise tuning. Cruise at a few different speeds you'd normally be at and see how much that Hz airflow slider needs adjusted.
6. Go do a WOT pull from 2k to redline and evaluate airflow using WBFactor.



Jus, the injector settings are there because of running E85. You scale the global down to accommodate for using more fuel. See this page for more info or play around with the calculators I made to see how it is affected.

I think I forgot to reset the open loop thresholds when I was calibrating the MAF. Theyre reset back to stock now. Ill zero out the fuel sliders too and load the evo 8 maps.

Have you verified that the harmonic damper hasn't started to spin on itself or separate?
Have you verified you're boost leak free?
Have you verified base fuel pressure?

Harmonic damper check> Its good.

Fuel pressure check>37 psi with vacuum line unplugged and and pinched off.

boost leaks, I checked friday but ill check again.

Its been awhile since ive been in town, but go see the owner of bittersweet liquor on 10th and 35th! He has helped me out on numerous occasions.

Oh yea? Who is he? What does he drive? If I cant get this thing running right I might hit him up.

 

[rx7ttlm]

I appreciate it. If I would of known earlier I would of before dropping 400 bucks on that crap they call tuning.

Who tuned it? Cause my dumb ass friends with no clue how to tune didn't have timing maps that screwed up. You have timing on the direct access map, and they have 13 more degrees added to the config on the timing tab..

 

[nfernotalon]

Who tuned it? Cause my dumb ass friends with no clue how to tune didn't have timing maps that screwed up. You have timing on the direct access map, and they have 13 more degrees added to the config on the timing tab..

"import tuner shop" that act like they know what they're doing. Google trenz racing.

Here is the latest pull turned the boost down to 20, loaded the evo 8 timing and fuel map and zeroed out the sliders. Its cutting out bad at about 4k wont even let me rev past that.. feels like a huge boost leak like a coupler not even attached.

Checked them they all seem fine. Ill check again in case.

I think I found out why it's cutting out. One of the wires from the transistor came off from my rewire for the 92 ecu. I'll fix it tomorrow going to bed.

 

[MY1GDSM]

3. Load Evo 8 mod1 fuel and timing DA tables.

Just skimmed over this thread and I aggree with most of what your saying aside from this... .

Neither of those maps are going to be of much help on e85

Mainly the Fuel map, you couldn't pay me enough $ to run that in ANY car on E85...

Edit: taking a quite look at the last log your pretty far from even doing any pulls at all I'd refrain from that at all for now... . Also I never undersatnd why everyone cuts the logs down to jsut a pull there is a lot you can tell about the driveablily and how the car runs with some normal cruising and driving in a log or even the car starting cold... .

Either way looking at the wideband and what you said before I'd take a look that this if you can dsmlink.com/forums Do what I say in the last part of that as it's quite a bit simpler... .

 

[snowborder714]

I agree they're not a final map by any means, but are better than what he has loaded. I figured we'd start him in the right direction with hopes that he'd pick up the final result we're trying to get him to and start to make changes on his own

I could post up my E85 maps if the OP wants, which I've modified from the Evo 8 mod1 maps.

 

[MY1GDSM]

What good will it do to post your maps? Nobody learns that way anything... . I'm a firm believer of if your going to do any changes you need to be able to understand what your doing on your own and not load "Base" maps...

Do what you want... .

But, I just don't feel that recommending the EVO maps for E85 is a good Idea period. as under any real load anyone's car is more then likely either going to pick up rich knock or cut out from being too rich... I've already seen a few people trying to run them thing week on the fourms on E85 as it is I don't think that a moderator saying to in the Tech fourms is going to help matters out any at all... .

 

[snowborder714]

Ok, I'll step down from that recommendation then. I'll just watch this thread and see what recommendations are given to the OP.

 

[nfernotalon]

Should I just run 91 for now until I get my idle and cruise tune right? Also to calibrate the wb and maf?

 

[DSMReviver]

OP clearly dont know what he is doing, He probably dont know why he is doing what he is doing. If nobody point out what he is doing wrong he won't learn anything. I believe if anybody know something help him out and that why he is on dsmtuners.com

 

[WillRaceForBeer]

If you need your car running good now, go back to pump. If you've got time to learn how to tune properly for e85, then start reading, there is lots of great info out there but you've gotta put in the reading and learning time.

I should add that either way you still need to learn as much as you can about tuning, and I wouldn't recommend WOT on the 91 pump without tuning. It will just work better with the evo8 map.

 

[Calan]

Wow. After looking at your datalog, whoever tuned it has no clue on how to use dsmlink. The thing is all over the place. They pretty much messes with everything they could mess with. The tune compounds and conflicts itself in so many ways no wonder the car ran like it did at the track. It is a shame you had to pay for something like that. What a waste.

As much as it sucks, I have to agree with this. Almost everything about your "tune" is a disaster. Frankly, I'm amazed that your car is still running at all if you made passes down a track with those settings. It really does look like somebody with ZERO knowledge of ECMLink and tuning just went in and started blindly changing everything that could be changed. (Look at the VE table adjustments...and stock MAF is selected for MAFComp type.

At this point, you need to step back, take a deep breath or 10, and start over. Find or create some timing and fuel maps (DA tables) that are conservative but good for E85. Flatten every slider, lower the boost, and double check your fuel settings/base pressure. Then start working on getting airflow calibrated and the car running smoothly at low boost.

Only THEN...start tuning for power.

Once all of that is done, go find the bonehead that did this to you and slap him in the head and demand your money back. That is by FAR the worst looking log I've seen coming from a "tuner".

BTW - I'm having a really hard time believing that you were truly running 37* of timing at what would probably be full boost and high load, without something going bye-bye...even on E85. I would double-and triple check everything mechanical related to timing; something just doesn't "feel" right about it.

You really should get a MAP sensor wired up so you can log actual boost.

 

[nfernotalon]

I have some clue as what needs to be done. I have tried to calibrate the gm mas but that thing is a pain! I kind of gave up before but I know it needs to be done the aem wide band doesn't help much either. I've seen the ECM link videos a few times but I'll watch them again. I have half a tank of e85 so I'll try it like this for now. Thanks to everyone who chimed in. As soon as the e85 runs out I'm switching to 91 and loading the stock 1g maps.

Yea it's still running. Drove to the track it's about an hour away, made 3 passes, drove back another hour. No issues while driving it I guess other than not making as much power as I wanted. I had no idea it was running 37 degrees of timing. Countless times of romping on it on the highway

Why isn't there any knock with that high of timing?

 

[Calan]

Why isn't there any knock with that high of timing?

The common consensus is that E85 doesn't knock when it runs lean, or at least not much. I'm not sure if I agree with that 100%, but at any rate...it knocks MUCH less than gasoline. It's more likely that it will just run hot to the point of melting things with no warning, since it has a higher threshold for detonation.

EDIT: I should add that I've never actually heard of that happening, but it seems possible given E85's tolerance for running lean.

In your case though, I dunno. It's pretty bizarre since at that point, pre-ignition should have been a huge factor, and E85 isn't so good at handling that according to a few sources. I'm not sure what exactly was going on in your cylinders when the ECU was trying to ignite that E85, but it couldn't have been pleasant. You were most likely just getting extremely poor combustion with very little torque output, which probably actually saved your engine in a weird twist of fate.

...or your knock sensor isn't working.

*****

Just out of curiosity, you are running with the translator zero'd out...right? If so, the GM MAF airflow shouldn't be much harder to calibrate than a stock MAF. It just takes time and patience.

With that said, the location and orientation of the MAF can affect things somewhat. Post up some pics of your MAF setup.

 

[nfernotalon]

Yup translator zeroed out. I'll post up pics in a bit.

Current pic of the engine bay.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...y-3in-vband-ss-o2-housing-38mm-wastegate.html

 

[Chevy2g3]

I'm new to tuning on e85 as well. Since you're in Colorado I would schedule an appointment with kevin at Jacks Transmission. Those guys have helped me out a bunch and they did my first tune when I was still on pump gas. I know greenly is a bit of distance from Colorado springs but in my opinion it would be worth the drive.

 

[nfernotalon]

According to the dyno sheet torque was at 333 with 341hp who knows. No smoke or overheating or funky idle, I also thought it sounded better after the tune it wasn't so raspy I guess. Idk.

Chevy2g3- I forgot about jacks does he tune cars on the dyno? I shouldn't of rushed into it but I wanted to make it to street tuner mayhem. Lesson learned I guess.

 

[nfernotalon]

Knock sensor works. As soon as I loaded the evo maps and did a pull I got about 3 counts.

 

[rx7ttlm]

What I would suggest, is going back to pump gas. And starting with a base tune, my laptop had different link config so I am not sure what your logging. Start by dialing the fuel/ timing and all the nonsense back to baseline. However, the evo fuel map is rich as shit . Start with the basics, do a boost leak test, compression test, fresh plugs/ wires, make sure all your crap is running correctly. THEN start logging runs with wideband logged accurately so if you have a question you can post a log and have people in Link forums help. IMO asking tuning questions on tuners about link tuning makes no sense.

 

[nfernotalon]

What I would suggest, is going back to pump gas. And starting with a base tune, my laptop had different link config so I am not sure what your logging. Start by dialing the fuel/ timing and all the nonsense back to baseline. However, the evo fuel map is rich as shit . Start with the basics, do a boost leak test, compression test, fresh plugs/ wires, make sure all your crap is running correctly. THEN start logging runs with wideband logged accurately so if you have a question you can post a log and have people in Link forums help. IMO asking tuning questions on tuners about link tuning makes no sense.

Yea going to start from scratch. Have you updated link? I think that's why it won't show up.