ECMlink Think I'm getting there. Can an expert weigh in?

[bigdnno98]

Think I'm getting there with the tune. Would just like others to weigh in. I see that my boost est is still off a little up top from my MAP. I reduced VE some there to try to get it in check but it didn't lower much so I did another boost leak test this morning. My compressor sucks but I didn't see any bubbles/leaks up to 30psi.

FP Race mani, FP Black turbo, HKS 272 cams, FIC1450cc, 450 wally e85 pump, Aeromotive AFPR, -6 feed and return, GM Flex fuel senor, fuel lab 818 filter, built 2.0 9.5:1, evo 8 springs/retainers, ported head, stock intake mani, new 1g turbo TB from throttlebodies.com,


1). Any boost, vac, or exhaust leaks?
No
Boost leak tested 5psi above your max boost with no leaks?
Yes (just tested again this morning to 30psi. my compressor kind of sucks but I didn't see any leaks/bubbles)

2). Verified mechanical timing?
Yes

3). Verified base timing?
Yes

4). Ignition system
COP or Stock Coil: Stock
Wire brand and Age: NGK/<1 year
Spark Plug brand, type and Gap: NGK-BPR7EIX/.024

5). Motor health (Compression Test)
freshly built 9.5:1 weisco pistons, eagle rods. 500 miles on motor

6). Performed basic throttle body adjustments? New 1g turbo TB from throttle bodies.com
Idle Switch: Yes
Throttle Cable: Yes
TPS: Yes
BISS: Yes

7). Compression ratio
9.5:1

8). Any known bad sensors or brittle wiring?
No

9). Any DTC/CEL codes?
No

10). Electrical system
Car off (not running): 12.4 volts
Car running: 13.9-14.1 volts

11). Base fuel pressure and injector values
Base Fuel Pressure: 43.7
Injector Size (cc/min): 1450

12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor
Sensor Brand: AEM
Calibration Date: Monday

13). Type of fuel
Type: ethanol
Percent of Ethanol: 70%

14). Watched ECMlink how-to videos?
Yes

 

[BoostedBeaver]

The log that is posted only contains one idle section that is at 167 degrees. We need an idle log at full operating temp to make proper corrections here. Make sure your ISCposition is at 30 when at operating temp and under no electrical load. Post another log.

Your fuel adjustment sliders are being used. Its going to be a headache to tune the sliders and the VE. My recommendation is to zero out the sliders and use the VE table to achieve the commanded AFR. Post another log.

As for WOT, your VE table needs some adjustment to mimic your DA table. This can not be done until you zero your fuel sliders and make another pull. This can be done by going to the VE tab, tracking your data log and making changes to the cells in question. Its really more involved as the VE table can use up to 4 cells at a time. With that being said, I will try to run some numbers for you this afternoon and post up a VE table for you to try when I get to the house (assuming you post a log with the sliders zeroed out). Also, your VE table should be a smooth transition but in the upper left portion of your table, the values differ quite a bit.

We will check your BoostEST and MAP correlation after your actual AFR lines up with your Commanded AFR.

 

[Dhan]

your VE table should be a smooth transition but in the upper left portion of your table, the values differ quite a bit.

I know this isn't my thread, but I was wondering if you could clarify this statement a little. Smooth from left to right or up and down? And what is considered smooth, in terms of difference between two values?

 

[BoostedBeaver]

The entire table should be smoth regardless of the target section. The VE will reaise towards the middle of the table and fall back off towards the right.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

In the above picture, you can see that the table is generally smooth. If you where to look at this in a 3D platform there would be nice rounded hills, no peaks.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You can see in this table that the values change erratically and are not smooth at all. If you where to view this in a 3D model, you would see a lot of peaks.

Robert

 

[Dhan]

Got it! Thank you for the info!

 

[bastarddsm]

Don't use link, so I didn't look at the logs. but 2 other things.

1. Get rid of the EIX plugs, and get some standard type ones. Those plugs could cause preignition, especially in a projected tip when you turn it up. I would drop a heat rande too. I also prefer non projected plugs, because they keep the plug out of the heat, and slow the combustion down just a bit, but be advised they require a bit more timing than a non projected plug.

2. The EVO8 springs are probably not enough spring for your combination. If you get up into the 30psi range those springs are soft enough the drive pressure might open the exhuast valves.

Other than that you setup looks solid and ready to make close to 600whp.

 

[bigdnno98]

Thanks for the input guys. Exactly what I was looking for. I'm going to hopefully get a lot of logging done tomorrow. As far as the plugs go. I bought 4 sets of plugs one day and brought them to the drag strip. I tried BR7ES, BPR7Es, BR7EIX and BPR7EIX. I made a couple passes with each and picked the plug that gave me the best performance/feel. The winner was BR7EIX. I like the coppers but the car ran/felt smoother with the iridiums in there.

As far as the EVO 8 springs, those were chosen solely due to budget. I had/have no cash left for springs/retainers. Intake manifold will be my next purchase around tax time, then springs/retainers will be next up on the list.

I'll zero out the sliders tomorrow. I was only using them because I thought I had a fuel delivery issue so I wanted to see if the car would respond if I gave it a bunch of fuel via the sliders. It did. I found that my AFPR gauge was off so I adjusted base FP correctly and my fueling issue went away. I've been slowly trying to reduce the sliders and add fuel with the VE table.

Thanks again for the input

 

[bigdnno98]

idle log attached

 

[BoostedBeaver]

Your global is set to -49.2 for approx 888cc injectors. You are running 1450s on E70. The Gas ratio of 70% ethanol is .7287 according to ECMtunning Wiki. That means your injectors should flow about 1057cc’s (1450*.7287) on E70 giving you a global of -57.4% [(450/1057) - 1].

ISC is averaging 74. It should read 30 at idle using link. You need to adjust the BISS to correct this value.

Combined fuel trims average about 6% negative. Pull a little from your deadtime to make this value hover closer to 0.

Airflow per rev is slightly elevated. Track the VE table find your idle cells and adjust these values to get airflowperrev to .25. Keep an eye on your fuel trims and adjust them to keep combfueltrim around 0%

Post another idle log when your done.

 

[bigdnno98]

Thanks for your input. The iSC only reads near 30 with the diagnostic pin grounded in link as far as i know. It was not for this idle log. I'll lower global down some. I was out pulling the following logs before you posted that commend so these are pre-your comments.

 

[bigdnno98]

I'm noticing that at onset of WOT and especially post shift back into WOT the car is going pretty lean even for the limited amount of boost at that time. Do i need to adjust the base tip in in the DA table?

 

[bastarddsm]

Where is your Wideband sensor at?

 

[bigdnno98]

just after the 90* in the DP. prob 15" from the O2 housing. sensor is brand new too. i just replaced it last week.

 

[bastarddsm]

The distance can make it kind of laggy. Mine is pretty far back and its an autometer, it's about .5s behind.

I wouldn't use the wideband to tune tip in so much. You kinda need to do that by feel. Even mounted at the exhaust port a wideband is to slow for such a dynamic event like that. IMHO.

 

[bastarddsm]

The distance can make it kind of laggy. Mine is pretty far back and its an autometer, it's about .5s behind.

I wouldn't use the wideband to tune tip in so much. You kinda need to do that by feel. Even mounted at the exhaust port a wideband is to slow for such a dynamic event like that. IMHO.

Overall there is a pretty wide range for afr at tip in. Basically if it doesn't pop, or bog it's rich enough, if it does't have a puff of black smoke it's lean enough.

 

[Calan]

I'm noticing that at onset of WOT and especially post shift back into WOT the car is going pretty lean even for the limited amount of boost at that time. Do i need to adjust the base tip in in the DA table?

I wouldn't use the wideband to tune tip in so much. You kinda need to do that by feel. Even mounted at the exhaust port a wideband is to slow for such a dynamic event like that. IMHO.

OP, Here is some more info that may help illustrate/explain the point bastarddsm is making.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/li...ual-attached-log.436795/page-5#post-152992985

 

[bigdnno98]

Great info thanks. Can't say that I've ever had wideband delay before. This does seem like what was described in the link you provided. It doesn't happen at the same load cell or anything, just immediately after WOT. Interesting. A couple more logs after some adjustments.

 

[bastarddsm]

A lot of times newer tuners are led to believe "Always trust the wideband" "Just tune to xx:1 AFR"

While that will get you started, it's not always they case. There is lots and lots of variability in the wideband. Just pressure in the exhaust can cause an error of several percent on a typical wideband. Knock can show up as rich or lean spikes. ect.

The wideband is a powerfull tool, but it isn't the only tool. Use it as a guide, let the car's feel decide where it needs to be.

 

[BoostedBeaver]

Your ISC should hover around 30 with nothing grounded. If your grounding the connections using link, here is a quote from steve explaining in a little more detail.

With DSMLink you ground both from UI. That puts the ECU into BISS adjustment mode.

While these are grounded you adjust the BISS to get a 750 RPM idle speed. The ECU is locking the ISC to about 10 steps while it's in this mode. Once you unground the signals the ISC steps should be as blazebolt posted. (30) If they aren't after correctly setting the BISS, you can tweek the BISS without grounding the settings to hit these values.

My suggestion is to just adjust the BISS with nothing grounded to achieve the 30 value.

Looking at your Cruise log, there is a 25 second idle section. Your Airflowperrev looks good. Your Combined fuel trims are averaging 9%. You need to add some deadtime to get this number hovering around 0.