Question for bogusSVO

[Cdc1221]

What would you say about me gun drilling my cams? I can run it on a lathe and rest at work, and we have some 16" long 7/16" and 1/2" bits i can drill them with. I was just thinking about the evo hollow cams and wondering about how this would work with our stockers. As this would be a free trial for me, im just wondering if it would weaken the stock cams too much, or if it would even have a benefit in performance.

 

[viperlp01]

Your taking away weight in the most non vital area. If your running any type of high ramp rate, high lift cam the amount of force the cam shaft will see is something to take into consideration on side of the hole you want to drill. In my opinion is would be pointless and time better spent. If you look at ExtremeTuners camshafts they are hollow but have a crazy reinforcement made into the inside of the cam.

 

[BogusSVO]

As long as you use some logic and common sense, you should be able to do it.

For get the .500, I think that would thin the cam too much.

A quick measure of the rough surface if the cam, comes in about .950

.950 - .500 = .450/2= .225 more like .200 usable wall thickness

The 7/16 should be ok.

If you have a scale, weigh them before and after to see what the weight drop is.

The only gain is going to be less parasitic HP loss.

But any "Heavy" installed springs may cause the cam to crack 120lbs on the seat or more.


The Ford 2.3 SOHC engine has a hollow cam, but oil runs thu it to oil the valve train.

 

[Cdc1221]

Ok thanks john. Thats why i asked before i did it. The drilling would just cost time, but a broke cam would destroy my head. So you dont think a evo 8 cam swap would be worth it either?

Thanks bogus. I was actually thinking about picking up a set of evo springs and retainers after reading your thread on common dsm spring specs

 

[BogusSVO]

I doubt the busted cam will kill your head, the Cam journals and lobes have more meat to them.
If the cam busted, it would do so in the rough cast area.

I could see some bent valves tho....

 

[Cdc1221]

So the stockers are just cast?

 

[BogusSVO]

Yes they are cast iron.

Alot of cams are made of cast iron.

 

[Cdc1221]

Oh i know. I may just pick up a 1g n/t head and intake from pullapart and try it on it. See if it works decently. Or are the n/t cams different? If so, i may swap over my 6bolt head since its got a broke wrist pin. Got another question. Where do you get the cutter to do oversized valve seats and how much does it usually run? I am a machinist too btw. I work at a job shop though, not automotive

 

[BogusSVO]

I use a Serdi style cutter.

You may have acess to a Bridgeport vert mill, but the tooling I use will not cross over to that.


Read these....

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/420045-how-have-4g63-head-rebuilt.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/438429-4g63-head-build-modified.html

Check the letter on the stock cam, If you look at the lift numbers, you will find a bit of a cam.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...5135-camshaft-identification-information.html

 

[Cdc1221]

Thanks man. I could possibly make my own cutter to use on the bridgeport, yes you guessed it . Not unused to making my own tooling. Do oversized valves come preground, or would i have to buy them then send them out?

 

[BogusSVO]

They are like any other replacement valve... should be drop in ready... I spin mine on the valve grinder just to make sure I do not have a slight bend in one.

Who's OS valves are you going to get?

 

[Cdc1221]

As an afterthought, i wonder if cutting .200" off the o.d. of the cam, making it .750", would have more of a benefit without sacrificing rigidity.

 

[viperlp01]

Comp does remove material from there castings so they can etch the part number into the cam.

 

[Cdc1221]

I was thinking the ss os valves off fleabay. Havent looked into it much yet, but i know im about to have to do a tbelt replacement, and thought id kill 3 or 4 birds with that stone

 

[BogusSVO]

Those are Engnbldr, Thats a good valve, So are the BC Valves.

Since you asked about valve seat cutting tooling....

The Ball driver is about $250
The bit holder another $175
The bit is about $35
The bit screw is $5
Polit about $25

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Set up cutting

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We have not even spoke about how level the head is, I use a didgial Level so I level to .01 +/- of one degree

 

[Cdc1221]

All i have is a machinists bubble type level. So basically youre saying id be better off sending it off unless i was gonna do multiple heads. I really wish i was an auto machinist instead of falling into the industrial side. I know the basics are the same but your machines are more specific

 

[BogusSVO]

They are.

But you can take a square chunk of metal, and make it round.

All I do is rework or modify what was already done.

Now Viper uses a Peterson TCM machine, Its a good machine, one of the first ones I learned to use.
His cutter set up is diffrent, He uses what is called a Mira cutter. But that is a bubble level on the polit thats in the guide.

Jam uses a system simuliar to mine ( I saw it on there website) It is actully based off the machine I use.
Theres is newer, and they paid almost twice as much.

Ill be happy to get the rep in touch with you if you like to buy one, Should be just under $30k for a new head shop nicley tooled!

 

[Cdc1221]

Haha no thanks. If i had the money to throw at one and the knowledge to run it, id probly take a stab at it. And the square into round is simple with a four jaw chuck . Different setups, same concept. Im sure you have a lathe

 

[BogusSVO]

No I do not.... It is on my want list tho.

The first part of the year I made the move from just doing cylinder heads, into doing block work.
I had to buy a boring bar and stand, a rod maching and tooling, and crank polishing equipment.

A lathe was on the list, but could not fit in with the budget I had to work with.

 

[Cdc1221]

We have an old 1950ish model monarch with a 6ft bed that is by far the best and most accurate lathe out of the four we run. Dont get a turnpro. Theyre capable of spinning 2k, which is great for polishing, but accuracy sucks. But my point is you can probly pick up an older one for a cheap price. Specially if you can find a shop going out of business

Hey you need a hand down there

 

[BogusSVO]

I doubt I need anything more than about a 40 inch C2C and a 4" swing.

 

[Cdc1221]

Yea. But thanks for the advice man. Ill check the weight before and after and let ya know how it comes out

 

[H@xtGSX]

I have an old WW2 "American" lathe and mill I use that I picked up for $2k... They are as accurate as any modern equipment I have used. The catch was I had to move them. They weigh a few tons each, and were inside a building that was either built around them or modified, because there was no openings big enough to get them out... And I was not allowed to make any openings big enough to get them out either. I wound up taking them apart and having the bases hauled out on hydraulic hand trucks and come alongs until I could drag them up the back of a flatbed with a winch. It took a week to get the damn things out, but you can find "gems" like that if you look around. If I were smart, I would have punched myself in the face for considering them and just financed new equipment though. Getting parts for them isn't an option.

 

[BogusSVO]

Good shop equipment has weight to them.

Once you put them in place, you tend not to move them.

Shipping weight on the head shop is about 2600 lbs, the surfacer was about the same.

The boring bar stand is 700-800lbs, then another couple hundred on the Boring bar.

I had a guy that was going to give me a Bridgeport Vert mill, it was huge, stood almost 8 foot tall, and the table was a good 4 foot long.

It was mine, If I could haul it off.....

 

[Cdc1221]

Haha we bought an big 26 tool cnc for 13k, and had to remove the top two rows of block out of the doorway to clear it. Also had an old lathe there with a 40 ft bed. Too much so we sold it. Biggest we have now is a 14 ft leblonde with a 36" swing

To bogus, we have the same mill your talking about. I have to stand on a stool to change tooling. Its massive. Lucky we have a 9k lb. lift if we ever need to move it