Is this a ground? no Spark issues

[TNTDSM7777]

I am just finishing my rebuild. Car cranks over wonderfully. Gets plenty of fuel, but I have no spark what so ever. So looking at the wires and I came across this. Have no idea what it is or where it goes.

my computer for some reason didnt upload the image. But the wire is right by the wiring harness for the a/c and the cps. It has a plastic cover over it, just not sure where it goes.

 

[minimoose]

Im think I know what your talking about its a black plastic little box with a silver top tab that has a bolt hole in it. I dont know what it is but I just bolted it to the firewall.

I doubt that the problem its usually something to do with the coil or power trans. right next to the coil. Has 2 screws that hold it in and one long clip that plugs in it. Double check that all your plugs are plugged in and make sure you have the grounds you need. Not 100% but I think there should be 3 larger grounds from the motor to the frame/ car.

 

[TNTDSM7777]

I kinda figured that wasnt going to be my issue. Just trying to think simple. The car didnt have any problems beforehand dealing with the ignition, so thats why I considered it being a ground. I will double check everything just to be sure. If not I will test the coil and such.

 

[minimoose]

Ill watch the board if you report back and try and help you out.

 

[luv2rallye]

Spark is derived from the CAS, CPS, ECU, PT, coil, and wiring in between. Check first for one of these unplugged. Then: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...art-no-fuel-prime-no-spark.html#post151265626

 

[TNTDSM7777]

Thanks... I will keep you updated

So searching the forums( at work) I came up with a couple observations. Correct me if I am wrong. Since I am getting fuel it cannot be the cas and the cos. If they were not sending info the the ecu I wouldn't get any fuel/ spark. Also, the ecu appears to be good since when I turn the ingnition to one the cel appears and the boost gauge goes up half way. So what's left is wiring, ignition coil, and the translator. I want to say its the translator ( next to the coil) because it doesn't click down into place. Seems like something is preventing it to.

 

[luv2rallye]

The CAS controls fuel so it can't be it. But the CPS only controls spark (along with the CAS) so it could still be it. ECU powering up ok doesn't rule it out either since it can still have burnt out components although powering up ok lowers the probability. It also can still be the coil, power transistor (PT), or wiring. Click my link above to test these.

 

[TNTDSM7777]

So, got done with some testing. I had some help out this time and I concluded it is the coil pack. We are getting power to the coil, just not out of the coil. Other than that everything else seemed to work out. Would there be reasons why between the rebuild the coil went from working to not working?

 

[bryanwheat]

What do you mean the translator that is next to the coil?

 

[luv2rallye]

He means the power transistor.

 

[luv2rallye]

I concluded it is the coil pack. We are getting power to the coil, just not out of the coil. Other than that everything else seemed to work out. Would there be reasons why between the rebuild the coil went from working to not working?

Can't think of any unless you changed coil, PT, ECU, CAS, CPS, wiring, or one of these stopped working. Make sure it really is the coil. 12V on the primary does not prove it (nor does proper coil resistance necessarily).

Coil spark test:
Place a screwdriver in the 2/3 coil's secondary high voltage output terminal (or a spark plug cable end of either plug 2 or 3. Keep screwdriver shank (or an attached wire to it) 1/8" from ground metal so a spark can jump across to ground (simulates spark plug gap). Unplug the power transistor and connect a wire to the blue-black wire's pin of the harness. Make sure you have gloves on and stand on a dry rubber mat. Turn ignition key to on. Now touch the other end of the wire to ground for a second (charges coil - may see spark where touching to ground due to high current-normal). Now remove wire from ground and you should see the spark (> 30KV) jump the gap from the screwdriver shank to ground (may also see small spark where you removed wire-normal). Repeat with the black-white pin for the other coil for plugs 1 & 4. You should see a strong blue spark.

 

[TNTDSM7777]

Ok I will test that out before getting a new coil. My step dad is the one that concluded that its the coil. He is really old school so we have a lot of disagreement . Also when I plug the cas on with the ignition turned in you can hear a distinct clinking noise. Don't know if this means anything. Sorry for the noobness.

 

[dalesocks]

is that clicking noise spark? In case you have the plugs out

 

[luv2rallye]

Could be if it's jumping to ground somewhere. Turning ignition key on also turns MFI relay on and makes IAC do a recalibrate both of which will click.

 

[1991 awd talon]

when i first got my talon i couldn't get it started. me and my dad started on the easy stuff.. plug wires, coils spark plugs. even tested the packs i don't remember the readings. but i think my dad was saying they could be wrong. but it was turning over no problem just wouldn't start. changed my ecu and started right up. so quick check would be to see if you know anyone with the correct ecu and plug it in and see what happens. i think my my old ecu's capacitors leaked.

hope this helps

 

[TNTDSM7777]

Well if it comes to it I will check the ecu. I really hope it isn't it, bit knowing my wonderful luck it will probably be it. I have brand new plugs and wires so those are taken out. With the cas plug it makes the sound when the ignition is on and I unplug then plug it back in. I will do some more testing in the next couple of days and post what I find

Also... Could having the a/c unplugged and unbolted have any affect on the spark?

 

[luv2rallye]

None

 

[92gsxbafaro]

are you grounding it to the motor when you check it.. if not try wires they are cheap you arent going to loose anything if you buy them... and if that doesnt work it could be your coil

 

[TNTDSM7777]

I got done with all the testing and everything came out ok. However, we decided to hook up a scanner and the scanner wouldnt even pick up to scan. Would that mean that the ecu is bad? The ecu is the only thing that we didnt get to check. If not, we know a car electrician and he would go through the car for us.

 

[luv2rallye]

It may be. For scanner operation under "Diagnostic port wiring" of this link, check for +12v on pin 16 and ground (continuity) on pin 5:
connectionproblem [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[TNTDSM7777]

Ok sounds good. I will check for power if none... I will check the ecu. I'm sure our car electrican will be able to diagnose the problem anyways. I will update info as soon as I know, so this thread can close( hopefully at least) .

 

[TNTDSM7777]

Got done checking the ECU. Its perfect. By then I pretty much decided to give up, but I decided to run all the tests again. It was getting dark and I unplugged the cps sensor again because it was making a sparking sound everytime it made contact with the harness plug for the first time). This time I could see where the spark was coming from and it was the coil pack. I dont know how I didnt notice this before, but spot #3 on the coil has a split inside it. Causing a spark to ground. New coil is on the way.